Something to talk about
Posted on April 19th, 2006 by Tariq Nelson
I was having a conversation with an my mother and I asked her how many intelligent, college educated African American women that I grew up with, and we both knew, were married and had children.
We both know several women like that, but only three that we could think of were married, with one child each. My sister, for example, is 30, highly educated, not married, has no children, and probably will not ever get married and have any children, and Allah knows best.
Filed under: Children's Issues, Convert Issues
Great post, as usual. I do not hold hopes for any community in the USA lifting itself up. All of our communities seem to be trapped in the “dumbing down” of culture.
Rich kids, white, Asian and otherwise, take on the ghetto culture for their own. I have seen white kids talking about how learning, intelligence, even libraries, are for “white people.” Intelligence, learning, hsitory, books, drive to succede are all “white things.”
This culture, as a whole, is dumbing down, and there doesnt seem that there is much we can do about it.
As Salaamu Alaykum,
Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem
While I agree that something must be done to stem the tide of mis-educated Black children as a whole and Black Muslims in particular the basis your assumptions are unfounded. i.e. African American community
Brother Abu Sinan.
Unfortunately, I agree with most of what you said, however, there is something we can do about it. We need to focus on ourselves and the people around us first.
I have two little boys and I make sure I stress education and good health to them. I am very involved in their education and I always give them treats for doing well in school, completing their homework, etc. And no, I don
I agree that we need to help our own families first. I notice there are lots of Muslim Brothers who want to help the wider community yet don’t do the same with their families. So they are losing their kids to this dunya. Doesn’t the Quran tells us save yourself and your family from the fire. Which is why I am very protective of my kids. I’m very strict about who they play with and are around. I am planning on homeschooling them to ensure they recieve a high quality education without all the negative social peer pressure in Public schools.
Abu Usamah: I have to disagree, I don’t know how old you are but there is definitely a culture of underachievement in the under 35 age group. Your comment about it being a southern white trait doesnt explain why our parents and grandparents, great grand parents had a much greater respect for education then we do and a much harder work ethic than most young people today.
you said:
“And while we are being honest rappers and entertainers for all the ignorance and backwardness they often portray (though not all) they often seem to be the only black males that do not appear gelded. That is why young males (affluent and poor alike) look to them because they appear strong and in the neighborhood.
Whereas the so-called African-American intellectuals, the so-called talended tenth are not to be found in the neighborhood and communities of the poor for the most part.”
I can’t believe you said this. This is the problem and why our community is going to keep spiraling out of control. African Ameican intellectuals arent in the community. Than who is there teaching the kids, running community programs, health clinics. What about the average joe who goes to work everyday, stays out of trouble and takes care of his family. These people are in the community but thats not glamorous, thats not exciting so they look to hip hop entertainment. What do they learn from hip hop culture, education is not needed, just try to come out with an album, sacrifice isnt neccessary , what ever material want you have, get it now, do whatever it takes to get it. How many young men are out there hustling trying to live this hip hop lifestyle, so few make it. If they would just go to community college and get a skill then over their lifetime make a great living, take care of there families and bring more stabitlity to the Black community.
I just find this comment so offensive. I went to school with very high acheiving Blacks. Several sacrificed lucrative careers (engineers, lawyers) to work in education and community development/healthcare . Others are succesful but are working with community programs to mentor youth. I grew up in Atlanta where you had plenty of entertainers living. I never saw them giving up their music or movie career to get down in the trenches and help. I would love to see the charity records of most in urban hip/hop entertainment scene.
Abu Usamah said:
“he fatal flaw has been to allow the myth that only through accepting the prevailing white standards and values of education can one be deemed educated. i.e. nasally accented english = grammatical correctly spoken english. And there are many more myths that could be debunked by Black intellectuals.”
What!!! That is so tired. Nobody cares if you have Black accent or not. People just want you to be able to speak English and write intelligibly. Have you ever been around a Black child that cannot speak English. It is just horrible to hear and see that this child grew up in this country, went to public schools and cannot hold a simple conversation in standard english. How are they going to be able to get a job without knowing how to communicate with the masses of people in US?
As Salaamu Laykum,
Anonymous,
While I applaud you in taking care of your own children yet this should be something that should go without saying. Pardon me but saying you are taking care of your children is like saying hey “I’m Muslim and I pray five times a day” it’s all obligatory
As Muslim men we are obliged to do more for the community as a whole. Multiple times in the Qur’an, Allah mentions the duty to help the orphans and the needy. We have allowed the self centered american society to impact our collective vision, creating a myopic view which does not reflect the real world.
Where are our children going live? Whom are the going to marry? If we don’t foster an environment that reflects our Islamic values yet all children can benefit from?
Our individual families do not exist in a vacuum, as Muslims if one part is feeling pain we should all feel something and do something to relieve it. I agree it begins at home but this is simply not enough.
Umm Abdullah:
Forgive me, if my comments offended you as was not my intent to endorse entertainers and sports stars nor was it my intent to belittle the contributions that are being made by the non-celebrities that are active in their community.
Be that as it may, the things I wrote are true and platitudes about past importance of education won’t change the fact the psyche of young Black males is in dire need of repair and the only way it’s going to be repaired is for Black Men who have been able to navigate this society — without losing a sense of self — to teach others how to do so.
While I don’t expect you understand my appoach, the irony is that I myself went to community college before obtaining an advanced degree, so I’m not against matriculating in american colleges, I’m against our children being indoctrinated to the point where they become useless to the communities from which they came.
One minor correction, while I don’t want the disscussion to digress to the topic of how dialects obtain social value, but there is simply no such thing as a “Black accent” please understand that written and spoken “american” is different from “english”. I agree that it should be learned and mastered yet, it’s mastery or lack thereof is not what is holding our children back.
I submit to you that I work with numerous people with multiple degrees who have no mastery of english (american or otherwise) all non-Black who can barely speak discernably yet they are all well paid.
Ma’a Salaam
AssalamuAlikum,
My comments are directly addressed to issue of “Black English”. The issue is not as simple as holding a conversation because “Black English”/ Ebonics according to some linguistcs is a complete variant form of english with proper grammatical rules. so perhaps these children grew up speaking that english, it is perfectly fine. as you know there are tons of englishes out there, some times a person who knows “standard english” can not understand somebody with a cockney accent. as for children who lag behind in written english, the blame partly goes to educators and the school system in america. Right from the start, it is assumed African American children are going to lag behind. The teachers are usually white middle class who have no idea what sort of homes these kids come from, and thus bring their own notions of succes with it and start getting frustated when the kids underachieve. there is inherent racism in education, i mean common in a country where prision population is estimated by the numbers of kids that dont make it in impovrished areas. Once again you can not assume, that society can reform itself in a day because the whole system is designed in a way to keep you repressed.
Abu Usamah: What is progressive education? Are you a teacher because I’d be curious to see what methods you think will work to reach these young brothers. I personally think our whole school system is totally outdated. These kids need to be learning real world skills around 14-15, strong vocational training, and I also think going to school until 12 th grade is a waste if the child is not college bound. Let them go out and learn a skill and get to work if thats what they want.
Personally I think teachers can only do so much. If the parents don’t teach respect for authority, education etc at home then I dont know what the schools can do. Which is why I maintain that you must get you own house in order first before going out to do community work. I just hate to see Brothers who are Imams or community activist and their kids are totally neglected, running the streets or leave the deen (Wa nauthubillah) . First step in turning things around is parents taking their jobs seriously and giving their kids the attention they desperately need.
Aboo Talha: I think the racism arguement is losing steam now. I mean most the kids doing the worst in school go to Black school with most Black teachers. You are right about low expectations. That is a huge problem that kids are not expected to learn the basics. The lack of high standards perpetuates the cycle of underachievment.
Abu Usamah:
I agree with what Anonymous wrote about encouraging the children to learn. Yes, it may seem like common sense, but this is exactly the message that we need to hear in our masajid and Islamic Centers that we are not hearing.
People are throwing these things out the window. African-American Muslims should be teaching their children that they will have to work 5 times as hard to make something of themselves and to keep Islam in the family.
makes me think of a book i read called the cross time engenner where a polish engeener is thrown 500 years into the past and while modernizing poland discovers how quickly everyone catches on to the math and engeenering principals that he teaches them realizes excatly that that we have been becoming dumber.
My wife and i both graduated from college and we have three kids most of our friends from college are either not married or have no children, now some of the idiots went to high school with got four or five, still are not married. ok now i am scared.
Salam alaikum
Thanks for your comments Um Abdullah, very on point.
Abu Usamah, if you truly believed in the lack of a “black accent” there would have been no need for you to say the following
“prevailing white standards and values of education can one be deemed educated. i.e. nasally accented english = grammatical correctly spoken english. And there are many more myths that could be debunked by Black intellectuals.”
And sorry but it is mastery of written and spoken english that is holding people back. generally all americans cannot cope with a level of english higher than the seventh grade level. Add to that the peer pressure that surrounds a vernacular which is grammatically correct and powerful in its vocabulary and ostracization ensues. Add to that the concept of being labelled as “acting White” and see how many people pursue it.
We should never force our children to live up to our false standards of manhood and “Blackness” because we think that they are acting “White”, true all children of Adam have distinguishing traits specific to them (both + and - ), yet we should not reiterate differences that will only reinforce sterotypes and feed on the Machismo found in our communities, which will only lead our children to failure and in ability to function in society.
Both spoken and written english are definitely assets if combined, but at least one is needed to get by in the world. when our children lack both, expect trouble. Those whites you described are probably not the most elequont, but may have good writing skills.
Um abdullah said well when she said:
“That is a huge problem that kids are not expected to learn the basics. The lack of high standards perpetuates the cycle of underachievment.”
A culture of degrading those that achieve by exclaiming them to be “House niggas” those that underachieve as “Dumbass Niggas” and anyone else as “Just anotha Nigga” is amazing to me.
How is that, as presented in both popular culture and among the 35-below bracket, African Americans are one of the only ethnic groups that pride themselves on ignorance?
Again I qoute you:
“prevailing white standards and values of education can one be deemed educated. i.e. nasally accented english = grammatical correctly spoken english”
White standards? So if our kids are failing and cannot reach a desired skillset and objective list, we ethnicize the debate and make up our own standards? We need to realize there are social norms were ever you go, and like it or not they must be lived up to to be able to succeed.
African American Vernacular English (AAVE) or Ebonics as some dubbed it is fine, but if the job call for standard english, we better be able to meet the mark, because they only legal means of profitting off AAVE maybe popular culture, which then only degrades African Americans even more, and throws another generation into the frying pan, making 5-times harder to achieve just as Tariq said.
Allah knows best, May he heal our hearts and minds.
Amin.
Salaam ‘Alaikum
//How many African American Muslim college students are active in the Muslim Students Association nationwide? I dare say not more than a handful
Two parties are to blame for the underacheivement of African Americans. One is the slave traders and slave holders and their descendants who perpetuated the oppression of us. The other is our own party, who have adopted and perpetuated self-oppression by calling achievement “white”. Blame both.
But it always goes back to some non-Black who is either greedy or racist or both. The rap industry is an example. I’m still looking for their names, but two Jewish-American record executives were responsible for promoting gangster rap music at a time when rap was becoming more politically conscious. Then, our culture took it on and then promoted it, more so than the withes who were paying more to own copies of the same music! NWA went through the roof! And then after them, a rapper with a political message could not make a dime. It’s always the same pattern…. the slave master starts a problem, and we perpetuate it.
[...] blaming it all on friends is wrong because