Does Islam = Communism to many Muslims?
Posted on May 23rd, 2006 by Tariq Nelson
I found this article via Izzy Mo’s blog that basically states that many Muslims believe in economic egalitarianism.
In research based on survey data from seven predominantly Muslim nations, the authors found that Islamic orthodoxy — identified as the desire to implement Islamic law (shari’a) as the sole legal foundation of their nation — is associated in every country with support for such progressive economic reforms as increasing the responsibility of government for the poor, reducing income inequality, and increasing government ownership of businesses and industries
Let’s take them one by one:
Filed under: Sloganism over Reality
Salam Alaikum
One of the causes of this egalitarian idealism among the surveyed countries has to do with the fact that the govt's of these places were for the large part subsidiries during the the cold war to the USSR. (with the exception of the KSA).
Therefore, for the gov'ts to implement the socialist programs that were desired by them/ demanded of them during this period, we find that a certain amount of "Islamization" or better yet cloaking the communist wolf in islamic clothing took place. The KSA is a mixed bag. Financially it is a hybrid of french/neo-egyptian/islamic law. Judicially it is purely islamic. Interior affairs are more in line with the neighboring arab countries (police, prison, welfare systems.)
One of the biggest impediments to establishment of an Islamic framework has been the confusion of normative and positive values when looking to modernise any islamic country. Thus you have "Islamization" hiding the haram as halal, or "Solidification" and claims of following a more pristine era, which is in fact a claim made to merely usurp the rights of the ignorant and not progress.
"You will follow the paths of those before…."
Salaam alaikum,
I had to laugh at the comment about the brother who wants a car from the mosque *just because*. I get that as an artist, that I should not charge for my work or just give it all in sadaqa. Well, gee, I need to eat. I don’t see what’s so wrong with being sucessful entrepreneurs as long as we keep our transactions halal. But some people won’t do that. They won’t even try to consider all the alternatives to a successful financial halal livelihood.
Hood:
wa alaykum as-salaam
Yes, I figured that that was the case. Plus it just sounds so nice that everyone be perfectly equal. Seems that some think that because in the eyes of Allah we are equal that this means equal abilities and talents and if not, then this should be enforced.
The reason that it is scary to me that some Islamic movements have this thinking is because egalitarian govts almost always become Police States. And in the case of Stalin, he killed millions trying to enforce egalitarianism.
And the most ironic thing is that under this system, those who rule and promote this system, live much better than the citizens.
A big problem that we are having in the Muslim community is that Muslims are naively crawling in to bed with the far-left thinking that they have a friend when often times they have a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Salaam ‘Alaikum
I obviously haven’t read the study, but just based on the article, I have questions about the mindset of those conducting it, which could influence how the results are framed. Statements from two of the researchers show, to me anyway, a biased view of Muslims (one that is so completely common that it seems normal until you really look beneath the words and examine them). When it comes to views on women and sexuality, it’s the mean old orthodox trying to enforce upon everyone things that they think are eternal and divine. When it comes to something these guys label “progressive,” it’s a surprise. Even though we both know that these people probably also view these economic ideas as part of that eternal and divine message. (And also, as if the liberals or the so-called democrats or the monarchists and all the rest of them don’t want to enforce a single worldview about women, sexuality, economics, or anything else on the people… it’s merely a question of who is currently standing on the top podium).
There is also nothing evident in the article itself that the aforementioned “Islamist” groups actually support communistic ideas such as government owned businesses. I would tend to think that they probably don’t. The sentence implies that support for “orthodoxy” (which I think should be distinguished from support for those groups anyway) is *associated with support for such ideas*, but doesn’t tell us anymore. “Support” could mean that more of those who support orthodoxy want these things vs. those who support liberalism (or something else) do, but that number could still be small or not very significant. It’s hard to say without reading the actual survey.
“Reducing economic inequality” could just as easily mean increasing the minimum wage or having a “standard of living wage” as it would be paying the doctor the same as the laborer. It’s not specified in this article (perhaps it is in the actual study). And I’m not surprised that the “rich and well educated” are not as supportive of economic reform as the poor and less educated. It is the current oppressive system of baksheesh, wasta, etc. that puts them in the position where they are wealthy enough to pay for an education (and many other things, I’m sure).
Salaam:
Thank you for bringing the article up. I had never considered Muslims embracing communism, since it is an athiestic social philosophy, ie a tyranny.
The only real economic reform is to educate the poor and provide skill training. This will raise their standard of living so that their children and grandchildren enter the middle class. It takes one or two generations. China did it. Inshallah, Muslim countries can also do it.
Ya Haqq!
http://austrolabe.com/2006/05/28/islam-communism-converging-opposites/
Umm Zaid:
wa alaykum as-salaam,
Given that many of these Muslim countries were ruled by Socialist/Communist regimes, I tend to think that they are leaning more toward the communist ideals in their thinking because they have been educated that way in those systems
Why has no-one here mentioned that Islamist groups such as Hizb ut-Tahrir have adopted a Bolshevik-style vanguard party methodology?
George:
I wasn’t aware of that. I’d be interested in any information you could share
“- Responsibility for the poor? No problem as that is what zakat is for, but does that mean a permanent welfare state? No”
In Islamic societies, zakat was just the minimum level of responsibility for the poor. In fact there were other mechanisms also. however for all these mechanisms to really function, the essence of the Muslim community or society must be Islamic. Otherwise all these mechanisms will remain as pure ideals by the overall population in the community or society with just a few subscribers. Today the essence of most Muslim communities/societies is secularism, modernism, puritanism, culturalism/tribalism etc. So even if a good Islamic governance is set up, and even if wildly assuming its gotto be communist in nature ( just assuming for hypothetical reasons), it may never function adequately because what is required first is to revive this traditional essence of Islam within Muslim communities and societies. Why? two reasons. even if you are selling the most valuable goods, if your customers dont have a taste for them, they wont sell. secondly you cant force people to buy your valuable goods.
“- Reducing income inequality? What does this mean? Do they mean that they think that, like in a Communist system, a doctor should earn the same amount as an unskilled laborer? This is a communist idea. Not Islamic.”
in the communist system, reducing income inequality is understood in an extreme way which is not consistent with the Islamic way. the conventional understanding of reducing income inequality is no different in traditional Islamic societies and certain contemporary Western societies where both understand it as reducing gross income inequalities.
“Davis and Robinson see further evidence of the economic progressivism of the Islamic orthodox in the welfare networks that they have established throughout the Muslim world. Building on the mosque-centered model established by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt during the 1930s, other Islamist groups, such as the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) in Algeria, Laksar Jihad (Holy War Brigade) in Indonesia, Jamaat-i-Islami (Party of Islam) in Pakistan, and Hamas in Palestine, have created in their countries safety nets of welfare agencies, clinics and hospitals, factories paying good wages, day care centers, youth clubs and unemployment agencies. This “welfare Islam,” according to the authors, has often shown Muslims that Islamist organizations can outperform corrupt or callous secular governments of their countries in providing much-needed social services. ”
davis and robinson are being orientalistic here. Islam encourages caring for others in society and that is what these groups are doing.its nothing quite gotto do with welfare economics or “welfare Islam”. you can find other moderate Islamist groups also doing the same thing. the secular governments having desacralized themselves dont hear the call by Islam to care for others and since today’s secular politicians being neo-classical in nature, they are only concerned about optimizing their utility.
“Obviously, these are very social programs. I am only referring to their thoughts that in Islam, the government should own the businesses and industries and enforce income equality. Who in their right mind would oppose these programs? But running an entire economy is much more than this, and you can’t run an economy solely on good intentions.”
through Islamic history there was no nationalization of industries/businesses by traditional Islamic governments. islamic governance only had set up rules and regulations and laws that kept these industries and businesses in check to prevent exploitation and abuses. in fact it was a pretty hands off approach except where they expected exploitation and abuses and other unfairness.
the fundamental factor contributing to the problems that you had highlighted in your piece is the inaccurate and inconsistent understanding of “Equality”. read my comments at my blog http://neyreed.blogspot.com/2006/05/economics-why-doesnt-islamic-economics.html where i had replied to your comments for my piece and also addressed the problem of misunderstanding “equality”
Very needed information found here, thank you for your work
I would be a little more careful and nuanced. I think you are right in saying that Islam=Communism is false, for the reasons you gave but I do think that milder progressive measures are very much Islamic. For example, in an Islamic state zakat actually would be more like a government wealth redistribution program and not so much like voluntary charity. In the time of the companions there actually was a Bayt-ul-Mal which established a kind of “welfare state”.
I think you are right in pointing out that Islam certainly allowed for private property and individual business ventures. It allowed for some people to become rich and successful. Wealth isn’t totally levelled. The state doesn’t eliminate the prophet motive as in an extreme communist state. But Islam also doesn’t advocate extreme free market capitalism either.
Check out
thake a step to the left for the rest of the argument on an early blog post of mine.
I found the majority of your answers to be from a capitalist point of view rather than a unbiased muslim view. For one Muslims all over the world reside in secular(atheist) societies and function fine there is no reason why Islam and Communism are not compatible.
To the individual who said “doctors and unskilled laborers are paid the same that is a communist ideal.” is incorrect. No one is paid anything because there are no wages. A janitor and a doctor are required to make the hospital run so why is one more important than the other? The schooling you say? Well why is the schooling so important? Because it cost a lot of money in capitalist society and so it is a field low in supply but high in demand and often doctors are over worked. In communism such education is available to anyone so a doctor is not as important or class exclusive. I promise you if someone has the potential to be a doctor they will strive for it if it’s in their interest and they won’t want to scrub toilets forever if they are smart. So the so called profit motive is a joke especially if you are working class and you know that you gain very little for working harder. At least in Communism you are working for society and that society benefits you in material need and want. The outcome is everyone works to make the hospital run thus making health care available for all and at the same time all of societies services are available to those workers who provide that healthcare. Don’t act like this is preventing the “hard workers” (usual born with silver spoons in their mouth and are not hard working, smarter than anyone else, or more qualified at all) from advancing when most societies hold everyone back due to their social class. It’ about elevating everyone and making all the fruits of society available to all despite occupation or class. In our society most can’t escape their class, it’s called the American dream for a reason, so stop sleeping and wake up.
Islam is about charity, peace and submission to Allah. Communism is about socializing all property in order to make the economy democratic, not just the political realm. They don’t conflict at all other than their roots in philosophy but that is not something that has to be materialized through policy.
Also Stalin did not force egalitarian principle on anyone, he forced his rule to support his caste that’s it (Please read Marx and Trotsky!). All other countries that followed his model did so in order to escape isolation from the west…sound familiar? Marx (who only opposed religion because he found it being used as a tool by politicians to support their class interest. I’m sure you can relate to that considering certain “royal families” miss use of Islam) may have been an atheist but so long as a muslim can live peacefully among atheists and other religions than there is no problem. So long as a government does not try to keep it’s people from Islam than I don’t see why there would be an issue. In fact it would be a fertile ground for spreading Islam.
If Muslims are a people of the middle path then I think Communism is favorable because it does not support the extremes of the ultra rich and tyranny of extreme poverty against the poor. Economic and political democracy is a balance that has yet to be realized in a material manifestation. Muslims should have an impact on such political movements and not leave it to the atheists.
Peace
http://www.marxists.de/religion/crouch/bolshislam.html
The Messenger of Allaah did not mention anything about communism.
Stalin was a flippin’ atheist:
“Stalin is quoted as saying “You know, they are fooling us, there is no God…all this talk about God is sheer nonsense” in E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
So was your boy karl Marx.
Get outta hear with your wack call to communism. It didn’t even work in “communist” countries. If you’re Muslim, you need to make tawbah.
On the authority of Aboo Dharr (radiyyallaahu an) who said:
When the Messenger of Allaah (salallaahu alayhi wa salam) left us there was not a bird flapping its wings in the air except that he mentioned to us knowledge about it.
[This is why] the Prophet (salallaahu alayhi wa salam) said:
There does not remain anything that would bring [you] closer to Paradise and farther from the Hell-fire except that it has been [completely] explained to you.
Authentic and collected by Imaam At-Tabaraanee.
WE DON’T NEED YOUR COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes that’s all fine and dandy. But are you ignoring the fact that you’re condoning one society (capitalist) as opposed to another (communist) based on the fact that the prophet was saying nothing is more important than your relationship with god? That makes no sense to me. During the time of the prophet capitalism didn’t exist now did it? So societies will continue to change if you want to acknowledge it or not. So are you saying that we as humans should not fight for better living conditions or classless society because the prophet tells us that the only way to paradise (or hell) has been explained through the Qur’an? That makes no sense. The Quran is telling us how to save our souls, it is not telling us to ignore injustice and to not stand up for ourselves. If you think that is so then Don’t fight with Israel. Don’t join unions. Don’t do anything to stand up for yourself in this world because “There does not remain anything that would bring [you] closer to Paradise and farther from the Hell-fire except that it has been [completely] explained to you.”
What an abuse of Islam. You are a capitalist more than a muslim. You should not be so divisive as to say that God himself condones the ills of this world and we should do nothing.
Also Marxs atheism is irrelevant. At the end of the day all he was saying is anything that stops you from defending yourself or bettering your life is your enemy (including fake churches working with the ruling classes). These men grew up as jews and christians and know all to well the contradictions that exist within those cultures. The Qur’an points out those contradictions many times. (Stalin I do not need to defend because you did not read what I wrote.)
May the whole world be Communist! Insha’Allah
You’re calling to kufr and shirk, and you have the gall to invoke Allaah!?! Subhanallaah!!!! Communism is evil, and has no place in Islaam!!!!
Communism is pretty much the opposite of what Islam stands for. Communism is atheistic, evil and cold. An Islamic state is infinitely better than a communist state.