“Don’t Confuse me with the facts”
Posted on June 8th, 2006 by Tariq Nelson
When the black consciousness movement (i.e, when everyone was wearing
Filed under: Sloganism over Reality, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
When the black consciousness movement (i.e, when everyone was wearing
Filed under: Sloganism over Reality, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Against the sloganisation of Islam: II…
Earlier this year, I wrote a polemic against the sloganisation of Islam. Tariq Nelson offers his own views on a variety of popular slogans amongst Muslims in Don’t confuse me with the…
I could not agree with this more brother Tariq. I remember hearing all of the lines about the white man putting crack in the community, owing the planes, and there being liquor stores on every corner in the black community and all that conspiratorial nonsense.
In the Muslim community we hear that Muslims lag behind because of “the Jews” and Zionist conspiracies and that
Slogans have really caused us to be lazy. Lazy in da’wah - why re-assess our methods and honestly determine if we are approaching da’wah the right way when all we have to do is rely on the slogan - “Islam is the fastest growing religion in America!’ As if the slogan will do the work for us.
Same thing with racism amongst Muslims. When are we really going to admit that this is a serious problem? Instead of honestly bringing this to the table and trying to establish some REAL community, we simply allow the current caste/class/clan system to continue and reply with the slogan - “There is no racism in Islam”. Even though little Arab boy Zaid hears his parents refer to black people as ‘abd’ or ‘monkey’ and goes to the Masjid, gets into an argument with black boy Jameel over a toy and blurts out - “Give me that football, ‘Abd!!” When the parent is confronted, what is his reply - “There is no racism in Islam” And so it continues…
Same thing with many social issues that have yet to be confronted because no one has the training or the sensibilities to address them. They don’t teach them about how to deal with crackheads, prostitutes, heroin addicts, sexual deviance, homosexuality, spousal abuse at the University of Madinah - oh yeah, they can regurgitate the same tired slogans, and legitimize them with a few ayat and hadith. Yet, none have been trained to really deal with and confront these issues beyond the intangible answers - and so it continues…
Rashad:
“Islam is the fastest growing religion in America” … I forgot about that one!
Gives us the impression that the growth is from converts and not immigration. The same demographers who said that Islam is fastest growing (due mainly to immigration) are saying that it will stagnate in the absence of immigration. Of course Allah is the one who guides and knows the future
Great article. My wife and I are thinking of moving to the Middle East, but we do have a plan. My wife finished her Bachelor’s degree and has been accepted for her Master’s program here. Insha’Allah, I will finish my bachelor’s in Electrical Engineering in a year or two (who knows with the new kids).
After these things are done we will look for jobs and try to find something decent. My degree will take us a long way in a country like UAE, where we have friends and family already.
My wife speaks fluent Arabic, I can speak conversationally. My wife has lived in the region and knows it well besides having the bulk of her family in Saudi.
If you want to leave, do so with plans. Get an education, support yourself. Sounds to me these people use this as a reason to be shiftless, not to put down roots, you name it.
By all means, go live abroad, but give yourselves the tools to be successful. In the likely event you wont like it (you know, the large racism problem in many Muslim countries, ect) you can come back to the USA and provide properly for your family.
The problem in the ENTIRE Muslim community is that we have lost our respect for learning. The Islamic world used to be the center of the world for education. It is no where near that now. Time to get that working, everything else will come in due time.
I personally believe that unless one has a real concrete reason for relocating himself and his family, “hijrah” as it is promoted today should not even be an option. If you have a wife from the region and have family ties to the region (like bro. Abu Sinan) then it begins to make a little more sense as long as all of the groundwork is done and the consequences of such a move are carefully thought out.
How will this affect my children if I pull them out of this country that they know and move them to a foreign country where they will not be citizens, nor ever be afforded the rights of citizenry? Then if it doesn’t work out and the family has to return to the west, the children (not to mention the adults) have had their development and growth in THIS society stunted. Will my children be able to function as second class citizens in a land that the native people consider them foreigners in? What about their education level? Will they be able to compete academically on an international level if their development is hampered by a move clear across the globe? If they are small children, they will grow up thinking that they are Saudi - but they ain’t Saudi - and the Saudis won’t hesitate to remind them of this fact. But, guess what - at that point, they won’t be Americans either - even though they may or may not have been born here.
I’m a westerner. My parents, my grand-parents, my greats, etc, etc. all were born in America. This is my country. And in many cases, it is easier, and safer to practice Islam here than in some ‘Muslim’ countries. I do not feel obligated to move myself and my family from their homeland where they will be able (insha-Allah) to grow and develop in their own culture and maybe even flourish - all while being Muslims. Literate, modern, rational, educated, thinking, progressive Muslims.
Rashad:
I can tell you many stories of those who went and their children were picked on and called names in school, and the teacher/principal basically blew it off. That is a very difficult situation to be in. I know a brother that went overseas and is facing all of those problems. His 11 year old daughter was not in school last I heard, and with her being black, it will not be the easiest thing in the world getting her married over there.
Everything you bring up are very valid points that are rarely thought of or brought out when it comes to hijrah for those in 100% convert households.
In the context of converts, ‘hijrah’ is most feasible in this order:
1 - Female converts married to immigrant males. It is very feasible and probably by far the most common. The situation is much easier to deal with, with the male being a national and getting his rights. The children can essentially grow up as nationals of that country because the lineage goes through the Father and they will be looked at as homegrown children to a large extent
2 - Male convert married to immigrant female. Much tougher than the first, but as Rashad mentioned, some roots are there which gives an advantage over couples where both are converts, but citizenship issues arise for the children because of origin of the Father being American
3 - Convert couples. More difficult still for convert couples where both are black. This is assuming that both 2 and 3 have done their due diligence in making sure the situation is right
These are the cold hard facts. Hijrah is good for those that can do it. But just jumping up and trying to do it is not wise
It’s enough for there to be a little bit of truth in the conspiracy theories. Afrocentric “fairy tales?” Worse could be said of your average public school textbook. There are definitely people who have agendas - believe that. But this isn’t an argument against personal or community responsibility.
I used to think many of these same thoughts when I was younger. It’s sad to me that some parts of the Muslim community are still repeating these old behaviors.
bismillah
assalamu alaikum
First of all, I support the brining back of the khilafah and I never said, neither did the group I support, ever claim that the kufaar are the source of all our problems.
Tariq said:——————————-
The Khulafaa ar-rashideen did not collect taxes. How do they propose to run a modern society without collecting taxes? Zakat cannot be used for building roads, schools, and paying police officers, so what mechanism will be in place to provide these services?
———————————————-
So the khulafaa never had to build roads, schools and pay police officers? I always hear this excuse from you reformists and “modernists”, “what about the change in time?” Well what about it? What exactly changed other than technology? Did human value change? Or are we now past obeying the Quraan and are wise enough to make our own rules and laws? And how would the change in technology effect Islamic rule other than make it easier?
As for the middle-class problem, Islam brought the waring tribes of the desert to people who ruled the world for several centuries. Is the problem of the middle class a modern problem? A problem that could not possibly exist at the time of the khulafaa? I said it this countless of times before and I’ll say it again, the khilafah in one sentence is “forbidding what Allah made haram, allowing what Allah made halal, and to man his ijtihaad on what is mubaah”. Ijtihaad is taking circumstances and the environment in the light of the Quraan and sunnah to find a solution. You simply cannot disagree with this statement and keep up a blog on Islam at the same time. What exactly do you have a problem with? Forbidding what Allah made haram and allowing what Allah made halal? Or is it the ijtihaad part; finding solutions that don’t go against the Quraan and Sunnah?
Those very questions can be asked at the democracy model (I take it the you support such a government) that you’re proposing, to any government model. It amazes me how reformists comes up to a Muslim who want to live under Islam and expect him to answer all government policies, their method of implementing different rules, like some brother in another blog asked me what speed limit will be put for the highway (!!!). There will be experts akhi, it’s a government like any other government, how hard is it to understand that? The only difference is it will rule by what agrees with Islam, and what Allah didn’t talk about, we do ijtihaad. What exactly is bothering you so much with the khilafah?
Nafi’a reported saying: ” ‘Umar said to me that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) saying: Whoso takes off his hand from allegiance to Allah will meet Him on the Day of Resurrection without having any proof for him, and whoso dies whilst there was no bay’ah (allegiance or a pledge) on his neck (to a Khaleefah), he dies a death of jahilliyah.”
(reported by Muslim)
Akhi Tariq, are there problems in Muslim societies? Yes there are. Could they be solved without using methods that anger Allah? Ofcourse they could. If it is an open market that, then that is in Islam, but there are restrictions on types of businesses (argumentative) and what is being sold in the market that should be implemented if we are to obey Allah (swt). This is the whole argument we’re presenting. Nobody said that all our problems are because of the kufaar, no body said that we want to wage war on anyone. Economic problems could be solved through economic and social means. These need government legislators and a secular government legislates on what people think is right and not what Allah says (which IS right). And a government that considers Allah’s demands in its legislations is an Islamic government and an Islamic government is for all Muslims because Islam could not be restricted to political boundaries.
As for “Islam starts among the poor” and the making hijra argument, I never heard niether of these and don’t support them anyway.
wassalamu alaikum
Muslims should be critical to themselves and at the same time should be proud of choosing Islam as the truest religion. but as far as islam in usa, i think american muslims should make a distinctive and unique identity different to those of Muslims in other parts of the world. I agree to what has been written by Jeffrey Lang in his “Even the Angel Ask” and the spirit behind the writing.
What do we expect? That a noble khalifah is just going to fall out of the sky, justly and wisely applying the laws of Allah? Nepotism EXISTS in the Muslim world. Corruption exists.
"There is no corruption/nepotism is Islam"
And from where do we get this khalifah? What are the qualifications? "Why Qur'an and Sunnah!! Ahk!" Oh yeah, how could I miss that?
How will this Khalifah rule? - "Qur'an and Sunnah, of course!"
Oh really? How will we know if he is on the Qur'an and Sunnah ?
"Why, the 'ulama' of course!"
Riiiiiiight, and who are the 'ulama again?
"Anyone from Saudi, of course!!"
Oh-kay then….
So what about all these other groups, movements, madhahib, manaahij, differing scholars, etc. etc, who don't agree to so-n-so's interpretation of what exactly IS Qur'an and Sunnah?
"Well, it's obvious - they're people of innovation! - Ahlul-Bid'ah following ther own desires!"
Riiiight - I should have known by the sign on one of their Masjids that said "Masjidu-Ahli-l-Bi'dah wa-l'ahwaa"
Muslims can't even agree on what kind of carpet to lay in the musalla - let alone something as homogenous as 1.6 billion muslims from a variety of experiences and backgrounds miraculously aligning themselves behind a khalifah. And based on the current trends in the Muslim world, who would this new "Islamic Government' turn to for implementing a solid, modern infrastructure of communications, agriculture, finance, economics, environmental studies? Who, from amongst those fundamentalists who yell for "khalifah" and "hijrah" and "Qur'an and Sunnah" are studying these sciences?
When these matters are brought up, in terms of positioning ourselves and our children as leaders in these fields and others, it is said (by fundamentalists) that these matters are secular and are of no benefit so we should ALL study mustalahul-hadith and usul. So, when this utopian government is established, based on a model right out of the pages of books full of romanticized stories of our glorious past, all of its citizens, if we think this logic out to its conclusion, will be fuqahaa - yet ignorant in terms of the engineering necessary to construct, maintain, and operate a global (yes 1.6 billion people is global) infrastructure to meet the needs of its citizens INDEPENDENT of other governments.
Let's establish the khlilafah in our homes first. We have a tendency to think very big, when legitimate problems exist right in front of us. And the sad thing is, these problems are problems that we can actually work on if we acknowledge that they exist. If we are honest with ourselves, there is nothing we can do to bring about a khalifah. Allah has power over everything. But we need to focus our energies on the many social problems that we have right in front of us.
Abdur-Rahman:
wa alaykum as-salaam
You wrote:
//First of all, I support the brining back of the khilafah and I never said, neither did the group I support, ever claim that the kufaar are the source of all our problems.//
OK, brother exactly why are you taking this so personally? I didn't say "Abdur-Rahman says kufar are the source of all the problems." I have met numerous brothers like I described above. Just because YOU are not like this does not negate the facts. This reminds me of when I was lamenting the African-American Muslim men that marry 10-12 times, the brother responds "I haven't done that!" or "I don't know anyone (in his small circle) like that" as if that automatically negates what I am saying.
I assume that you also haven't noticed, for example, conspiratorial forgeries like "Protocals of the learned Elders of Zion" and other things that have spread amongst the Muslims under this thinking.
And unfortunately you have missed the ENTIRE point. You have brothers that say:
"Racism in the Ummah was introduced by colonialism" in response to blatant racism by many
"The media is plotting to make Islam look bad" in response to the media showing rioting or other things done by the Muslims
"They are stealing our resources" etc etc etc
If you haven't heard this type of diatribe, then I suggest you pay more attention.
//I always hear this excuse from you reformists and “modernists”, “what about the change in time?” Well what about it? What exactly changed other than technology? Did human value change? //
Ah yes, another thing that we do: "label and discredit". Give him a label in order to discredit him. What exactly of anything I have wrote is "reformist" or "modernist" on this blog?
Suggestions that American Muslims live in the real world instead of closing our minds to modern technology, ignoring reality and fooling ourselves is "reformist"? In the end it only hurts individuals and their children when the bubble pops.
At the end of the day, I am calling for us to take a critical look at ourselves and try to solve some real problems that we can actually do something about.
For example: A few weeks ago, I was told of the situation of a brother who has been a Khalifah caller for the past 10 years or so. It was just found that his son is in a street gang. Not to pick on this brother, but this story is telling because he put so much concentration on something essentially abstract, yet ignored the things right around him. And guess what? Still no Khalifah
That brother would have been much better served if someone had told him: "Brother you need to get an education or skill, then get a good job, provide for your family properly, spend time with and work with your wife and kids, put lots of effort into educating your children, and work to improve the neighborhood you live in and the Muslim community. You want to be the one who WRITES that $10,000 check for charity. And if you do these things, then Insha Allah you will provide an excellent example to your non-Muslim family members and others"
Instead, someone came and recruited him to a movement that encouraged him to bury himself in abstract issues that he can do nothing about. This brother (an American convert) had probably not even been overseas, much less understood the complex intracasies of the societies over there.
This does not just go for Khalifah callers, but for many other groups as well.
This investing in sloganism is especially damaging for converts. They enthusiastically dive in head first thinking that this slogan is going to be "it". Ten years later, he is burned out, disenchanted and/or was a horrible example for his non-Muslim family. The rest of the world has moved on while he finds he has nothing but that slogan. Everyone else sees him as a bum. He is ashamed and goes away. Sad stories like this exist.
As for change in times, you are very naive if you think that the world has not changed in ways other than technology.
I will give you three ways in which the world has changed:
- The Muslim lands are still largely tribal in their thinking and very discriminatory against non-tribe members (i.e., non-family members) while the rest of the world is moving toward more global thinking. This way of thinking worked all over the world 1,000 years ago. It does not work now. And no Khalifah or any other type of ruler can command authority with that type of "loyalty to the tribe first" type thinking. Then what happens to those who have bayah to current Kings?
- Modern Finance, for example, is much more complicated now than 1,000 years ago or even 100 years ago. Money exchanges, inflationary cycles, deflationary cycles, stock markets, banks, and other such things did not exist then. Do we get rid of them or throw the name "Islamic" on it?
- In the modern nation-state era of borders has the electoral system been considered? What about the role of banks? What kind of health care system? (Health Care insurance? If free, then who will pay for it?) In what ways can people enjoy music, arts or entertain themselves?
The answers to those questions as you and I both know range from the liberal to the rigid and everything in between. That being the case, most of the issues dealing with how an modern day Islamic government is supposed to function has not been hammered out. Much less how he is elected, WHERE this state is supposed to be, and citizenship issues
Trying to convince people (particularly us in the West) that we have to return to the 7th century model with no problem solving of modern issues is in the end a bankrupt ideology. I do not believe that the Sahaabah themselves would operate the same way given current conditions.
A simple slogan of "Khalifah Now" does us no good. We keep concentrating on that fact rather than trying to solve all of the other far more complicated problems in the Muslim world.
//Or are we now past obeying the Quraan and are wise enough to make our own rules and laws? And how would the change in technology effect Islamic rule other than make it easier? //
*sigh* Many Muslims also have the unfortunate tendency to make "straw man" arguments. And the above is that. Refer to my above points on the "making Islamic rule easier" point.
//I said it this countless of times before and I’ll say it again, the khilafah in one sentence is “forbidding what Allah made haram, allowing what Allah made halal, and to man his ijtihaad on what is mubaah”. //
Just what we need yet another slogan! Listen, there is nothing inherently wrong with any of the slogans I listed on the surface. The problem is that we don't go any deeper than that and put our hopes in it, rendering the slogan meaningless.
//What exactly do you have a problem with? Forbidding what Allah made haram and allowing what Allah made halal? Or is it the ijtihaad part; finding solutions that don’t go against the Quraan and Sunnah?//
Unfortunately your entire post was littered with straw man arguments and more slogans. As to the hadith you quoted, Allah does not hold us responsible for those things out of our control. He DOES hold us responsible for those things in our control.
My point here is not to discuss the finer points of Khalifah, but to make the point that we are putting our hopes in slogans while deeper thought is not put into real issues that are right in front of us. I am for solving the issues that are right in front of us that I have discussed on this blog.
It makes no sense for a person to be cry day and night about the lack of a Khalifah (or anything else that he has no control over) while doing little to nothing (which is what happens with these people) about the things that are around them.
It makes no sense for a convert living in an American ghetto to lament the lack of a Khalifah, or continuously dream about going overseas, or live in whatever "Islamic Bubble" he has created for himself while he and his family is surrounded by drugs, his children need to learn how to read and survive in the world, and other things. His efforts need to be on trying to improve is IMMEDIATE situation and not on talking to the brothers about a Khalifah or anything else that is out of his control.
Tariq, the more I read your posts, the more I like you! Spot on brother!
Bro Tariq
unfortunatly I am much of what you have described on this blog. I accepted Islam in my early 20s, dedicated myself to different movements and now here I am in my mid 30s broke, depressed and looking for answers. I believe that we think that we have to keep clinging to these dreams to keep some hope in our lives. when you realize that the dream you have believeed in for years is not realistic it is very hard to keep yourself together after that
Subhanallah…
bismillah
assalamu alaikum
Rashad, you sound very smart and well informed, especially when you’re discussing with yourself and answering questions you yourself ask. To make this “discussion” more fair, allow me answer your questions.
Rashad said:————————–
What do we expect? That a noble khalifah is just going to fall out of the sky, justly and wisely applying the laws of Allah?
————————–
For a person that sits behind his computer the whole day reviewing movies, I’d imagine this is how they think. As for the people who belong to international groups working to establish the khilafah, then no, by definition they don’t think this way.
Rashad said:———————-
Nepotism EXISTS in the Muslim world. Corruption exists.
———————–
And how do you plan to solve the problem? Grow a beard and roll up your trousers? Or work to change the corrupt system in the Muslim world?
Rashad said:——————–
And from where do we get this khalifah? What are the qualifications? “Why Qur’an and Sunnah!! Ahk!” Oh yeah, how could I miss that?
————————————
A khilafah is a government that rules by Islam. Islamic law is derived from the Quraan, sunnah, ijmaa al sahabaa, ijmaa al ulamaa, qyaas and ijtihaad. A more simplified way of looking at it is Quraan, sunnah and ijtihaad. If you have any other sources for deriving Islamic laws then please tell me. If not, then what are you being sarcastic about?
Rashad said:————————
How will this Khalifah rule? - “Qur’an and Sunnah, of course!”
Oh really? How will we know if he is on the Qur’an and Sunnah -
“Why, the ‘ulama’ of course!”
Riiiiiiight, and who are the ‘ulama again?
“Anyone from Saudi, of course!!”
Oh-kay then
bismillah
assalamu alaikum
There is a small typo;
“As for where, the Khilafah will be where ever it is implemented. Hizb ut Tahrir works all over the world. It started in Palestine and is currently exteremly powerful in Central Asia, mainly Uzbekistan and the Xing-Yang region of China. Allah decides where and when, we only do what we can to establish it in the corrupt method.”
Corrupt is suppose to be ‘correct’.
wassalam
bismillah
astaghfurullahul azeem. I reread my post and I realised I was getting rude in some parts. Walahi I apologise, astaghfurullahul azeem. I’m sorry akhi, but I’ve been in four different blogs and all are generally talking about more or less the same points. So I’m repeating myself and sometimes might forget that I’m talking to someone new.
forgive me akhi. Tariq and Rashaad.
wassalamu alaikum
Abdur-Rahman:
No offense taken. But on to what you posted, as I said earlier, I don't want to debate the finer points of Khalifah. You have sadly MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT of the post which "Ashamed's" comments personifies above.
Before leaving this discussion I will point out two flaws in your argument
- Assuming that anyone who disagrees with your particular methodology by default is against Islamic law. No Muslim in their right mind is against implementing Islamic law.
- Using generic terms like 'ulamaa', 'majlis ash-shuraa' and such things when this means so many different things to so many different people.
Your argument is like someone coming to me and saying they have a great new invention
Inventor: "Got a new invention that will change the world and make lots of money!"
Me: "Great what is it"
Inventor: "It is a transporter! You can transport people from one place to the other instantly, like on Star Trek! All I have to do is figure out the entire space/time continuum thing and we are on our way to billions!!!"
We do agree on this though:
///I heard all these, but this is as predominant amongst the non-caliphists - if I may use the term- as it is amongst the caliphists///
It was never my intention to only pick on "caliphists" when it came to blaming. My thoughts on that issue just led me to that. Perhaps I should have seperated the two.
Abu Sinan:
Thanks Bro!
Uhh..oh-kay. I didn’t get a chance to read these posts until i got back to my office. (I’m actually working believe it or not, not reviewing movies all day.) Oh, is it movies or MOVIE?? So after reading your first reply and becoming very pissed and ready to reply, I read your apology and jazakallah khair.
Now, I never accused you of one who would make those mock replies bro. Abdur-Rahman…never. These are template replies from dealing with Muslims for over 20 years.
Now, I apologize in advance but ease up on the blogs brother. You are taking things a little too personally. Okay, so we may not agree - no need to write bidaaya wa nihaaya. I don’t have the luxury of writing detailed replies all day. And by the way, this blog and my own is just a way to blow of some steam…nothing said in these blogs is earth-shattering so it’s really not that serious brother.
Zaid Shakir said years ago that the khalifa is not going to pray for you and pay zakat for you. The khilafa will also not transform corrupt Muslim societies automatically and corrupt concepts of family and business that exist in the Muslim World. These are problems that are too deep-rooted to be solved by some nanny-state falling from the sky. The government is a reflection of the people and their culture.
Prattle from the Party: I…
Abdurrahman Hilmi, a Hizb al-Tahrir activist who has left numerous comments across a variety of Muslim blogs (1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and of all of which look more or less the same), asks a question on Tariq Nelson’s post,…
Spot on Tariq,
There is a deeper religious problem with all of this. Many muslims ascribe primary cause to a conspiracy of jews/americans/the isreali governmen etc.., but this is an act of unbelief.
two words that have become haram amongst muslims, are personal responsibility,
Some excellent points.
Bro Ashamed May Allah make it easy for you.
I have gone through similiar situations and trying to pull myself out of it now. It gets frustrating but IO trust in Allah and keep it moving.
In Islam we are taught that we will never see a change in the world until we, ourselves, change. Why have we forgotten this? Blaming everyone else for our ills goes back on this teaching.
We, as an Ummah, are really an ignorant people, on the whole. Once Islam was the center of the world, the bright light of science and the arts. Nothing is farther from the truth today.
One Imam in a khateeb said that there were more books translated into Greek last year, a language with relatively small numbers of native speakers, than there were into Arabic, a language with 300 million native speakers. It is clear that when the Prophet of Allah told us to seek knowledge, even to China, that he has NOT been listened to.
The smartest and brightest then often move to the west. Brain drain, lack of respect for knowledge and innovation. It is starving us as a people and fueling massive inferiority complexes. Time to return to the Islam that motivated people to learn, to innovate, to invent.
bismillah
assalamu alaikum
brother Abu Sinan, I agree with everything you said. The thing is, it is one thing to make such statements and a completely other thing to actually ask yourself, how should we get out of the hole we’re in.
What exactly do you propose we do? Go to every door and preach Islam? You should realise that it was only when Islam was a state that the Muslims were at the forefront of technology and science, not as simple ibadaat (private worships). I hear the arguments that we will never get the state untill the Muslims become like the sahabaa. But then I ask, who said that all Muslims at the time of the prophet were perfect? There were the Muslims that were too afraid to even publically claim to be Muslims, there were the Muslims that stayed away from the battles the prophet and his companions fought, there were the Muslims that didn’t carry out the hijra, there were the Muslims that didn’t fight in Badr and other battles, there were even hypocrites amongst the Muslims around the prophet.
we should certainly not expect that the state will come when the Muslims are perfect, no, we should certainly not even expect to make the Muslims perfect without the state. There is a reason why the sharia was revealed.
The prophet said that whatever helps you make your fard is a fard. So if political leadership of the Muslims will help the Muslims in their deen, then it is a fard upon us to establish that political unity.
In no way am I reducing the importance of ibadaat or other aspects of worship and Islam. No, akhi. I am only saying that there is this and there is that. We do not stick to one and forget the other, whether it’s political work or private worship.
wassalam
Abdur-Rahman:
Brother, I’m not trying to belittle you, but you strike me as someone that is young, unmarried and has no children. Those of us with families know that we can spend very little time on things that we just can not control as THAT is a full time job.
Spending hours TALKING about theoretical things like establishing a khalifah in Uzbekistan or whereever with a group of brothers at a coffee shop in Washington, DC, Chicago, London, Cairo or whereever is not going to change anything.
Our time is better spent educating ourselves, our families, contributing to our local communities (financially and otherwise) volunteering at our children’s schools, and other wise. Insha Allah you will see this point
Once again, the point of this is “Ashamed’s” post above which is all too common. May Allah help them and all of us
Thabet, like i said before @ haroon’s, this is a broad stroke. Bro, talk to em’, engage em’ and honestly i really believe your perspective will change. I have + had the same critique as you, some that I admit STILL exist, but am telling you, its simply not like before.
Also, brother “down and out”, Stay strong bro. this group mentality sickness i saw a mile away and Thabet seen it as well. Shit like this would get any muslim get pissed to see that and it breaks my heart to hear you. But, i honestly believe this is Not Tahrir.
Thabet, i think that is where the problem is. When we see some around sloganising, has it ever occurred that it is simply not them? I can tell you straight up that it simply a case of mistaken identity. Ask em’ yourself.
gotta go.
back, sorry, I believe you have a slight bent on localization. I dunno if its an academic thing brought on by prevalent post modernist thought (relax, doesn’t mean its a bad thing, lol am not labelling you or anything, u freakin’ ‘modernist’) but there is a part of me askin if its a retreat. I think Abdul Rahman picked up on that as well. If your suggesting Tahriri rhetoric is in the extreme of polity, perhaps localization is as well.
Again -Ashamed-, u got NUTHIN to ever be ashamed about. WTF??!!! I know some who have only grown stronger from there experience. This by NO MEANS excuses this. We learn, we grow. May Allah make us a better and spiritually stronger Muslim from this. This just gives me more the reason to go over and talk w/ em.
You may feel alienated and spiritually bankrupt, but your not. Hold strong to the rope of Allah swt. Better to recognize the silence and see The Herd for what it is. Didn’t mean to drop the nietzche or existential shit but you get the drift. Its good that you have addressed this for yourself and recognize that YES, there are shortcomings. But thats what makes this an oportunity bra, strive from it.
bytheby, I got the link to this post from another. Original link was from Thabets. Sorry. am going to post this back to Thabets
I think the biggest problem with the Middle East is that it has lots and lots of oil (easy way for the rulers to become rich beyond their wildest dreams), and almost no other natural resources (very few ways for ordinary people to earn a living, except by working in the ruler-controlled oil industry).
The “rentier state” is the problem.
I think there is a common misconception amongst muslims who disagree with working towards a khilafah state. This misconception actually concerns the khilafah itself; the misconception results in muslims not really understanding the true purpose of the Khilafah- especially its effects and necessity upon society.
The Khilafah is not merely a islamic facade of state rulership, nor is it secular political state with an islamic flavouring, nor is it a utopia- Put simply: the khilafah IS the means left by the holy prophet (saw) for the perfection of society.
Yathrib was not a ‘perfect society’ before Muhammed (Saw) became the ruler of it and it became an Islamic state, they were still loads of hypocrities, less than devout muslims- zina, adultery, wine drinking, tribalistic tensions streching back from before Islam etc… What made Yathrib into an Islamic society and made them the best of generations- was not that they were a collection of individuals who just incidentally happened to be perfect in their islamiic personalities- rather it was the application of Islam in society and the recognition that Allah (swt) was the sole legistlator and reference point for all disputes that made people implement the Islamic solutions and enable them to perfect themselves as a whole.
Put again simply, we all know that a Muslim who does not make Islam and Allah is sole reference point in life, may be tempted into haram and corruption, thus if a muslim is told to pray 5 times a day and not look at girls, yet, he wants to follow what society has ‘taught’ him is normal for those who have a ‘life’- thus, he goes to clubs and spends time with his friends talking about the latest trivia: it would not be surprising to find that he misses his prayers due to tiredness from his constant partying and has a girlfriend or at least feels bad in himself that he can’t pull girls…
Thus, the key to him reforming himself is to adopt islam as the sole basis in his life- FOR EVERYTHING. He may not become masum overnight, but he will greatly reduce his sins to a trickle.
Contrast this to a Society that is NOT based upon ALLAH and Islam solely, not only would it corrupt the individuals within it (as mentioned above), but it would corrupt the very social values of Islam and would lead to oppression and human environments that are unnatural to the fitrah of man. Leading to his abnormal behaviour and actions.
To conclude, just as adopting the Islamic aqeedah as a comprehensive reference point within ones heart, is the startpoint to progressing in the owrship of Allah (swt) and purifying oneself; SO the adopting by society of Islam as its sole reference point in life and ultimate point of authority- is the start point to its purification.
An New convert does not have to be perfect in order to embrace islam, indeed, his personaility will usually have many faults, but when he has made the concious decision to refer to Islam in his life, for all his solutions- and he acts upon this, his personlity will start to change to that of a Islamic one.
People do not have to be perfect to establish Allah’s (swt) laws, they merely have to believe, agree and work for its implmentation so that their whole environment, system, society and peoples utilize Islam to solve all their problems and needs- then we shall see the perfection of society. This implementation of Islamic social solutions has many names, but the name I will use for it, is the name left to us by the Prophet (saw) as one of the most important legacies of His (saw) lifes work: The Khilafah.
Abdullah:
All of that is great in theory, but many of us have concerns that are pressing us right now and can not wait until HT picks a Khalifah for us all
[...] After hearing this rationale and the facts, the brother disagreed and dismissed further conversation as "not being beneficial" (because he knows that he is right) then abruptly ended the conversation. [...]
Salam alaikum,
Yes, I understand brother, there are many social concerns that press all of us right now, but to work for them separately from the issue of khilafah is like working to solve the symptom separately from its problem. Its not like we should all just sit down and do nothing while we wait for the return of the khilafah; but we should work to resolve these symptoms en route to solving the root-cause which is the absense of khilafah.
So, when our governments deprive the people of their needs, we should call out for their islamic rights; In doing so, the people realise practically what Islamic social rights are and the need for their establishment throughout society
And when the west tell muslims to integrate and accept their artificial nationalities, we should publicly reject it and declare our unity first with the Ummah and it’s issues/problems, by doing this, this divisions that prevent the Ummah uniting into a unitary political entity with common problems, concerns, goals and responsibilities-are eliminated.
All these issues have been addressed with the re-establishment of the Khilafah in view- therefore the Ummah progresses closer to attaining it.
Basically, the attempts at solving our problems will not be productive nor progressive unless we stop being reactionary to them and start approaching them with a view to achieving a final objective. And not just any objective, but the establishment of a Society where Allah’s (swt) word is the highest reference for all affairs in life (i.e. The Khilafah).
Assigning the blame and making up slogans is something that has distracted the Ummah, and I thank Allah and appreciate you for pointing that out.
But many of these Afro-centric books of the ealry 90s weren’t fairy-tales. The ones promoting an opinion or philosophy were merely that, and the ones teaching history were oft-times written by historians who had done research and reported their findings. The ones writing about politics and conspiracies were sure of what they were writing, and the worst many would have been is honeslty mistaken or misinformed. No, they were absolutley right to point fingers at the white power structure in place that still benefits from stolen land and forced free labor in North America and from colonization in Europe.
Now, you are still correct in saying that white people weren’t throwing down trash in Black ghettoes, nor were Israelis and Americans littering Muslims lands and ruling Muslim lands with secular laws and corruption.
But why have none of us said regarding race or religion that the blame lies with both parties? The slave masters and their willing heirs (i.e. white supremacists and policy makers) have their share of guilt for what they have started, and we African Americans our share of guilt for what we have continued and perpetuated. Conspiring disbelievers have their share of guilt for their misuse of indirect power, as their so-called Muslim puppets have theirs for complying and misruling Muslim lands.
In short, aft-times in these struggles, both sides have been at fault… the agressor for starting and maintaining the problem, and the victim for perpetuating it. Much of the problems that African descendants and that Muslims face does start with conspiracies, and many continue without the need for further conspiracies or outside effort.
Oppression is worse than slaughter, and it seems that the key to resisting oppression is being willing to die before being willing to be oppressed. Non-Muslims have atleast one excuse, they don’t know what is waiting after death.
We don’t have that excuse. We must live ready to die, and the wicked cannot oppress those of us who limit them to the options of ceasing oppressing others, killing us since they cannot oppress us, or dying while trying to oppress us. Umar Mukhtar told General Graziani “We win or we die!” Now, can you or I or anyone else oppress Umar now that he has been buried? If they can only either leave us alone or meet resistance from us, either way we will no longer be oppressed.
[...] facts.
[...] be successful in 21st century America. But in order to achieve this, beyond rhetoric, jingoism and sloganism, and meet the challenges that face us, we are indeed going to have to realize that it is a time for [...]