The New ‘Passing’
Check all emotional baggage at the door before proceeding to read, because this is going to be a little controversial.
I was having a conversation with a Black American convert recently about the state of Black America, the racism of the Muslim world and where black American converts fit in this complicated mix.
During the conversation, I mentioned to him that as a black person rises in educational attainment and/or Socioeconomic Status (SES), they become more likely to marry outside of their race. With each level of rising SES, the number of black/non-black couples increase.
To illustrate this, at the highest income level ($100,000 and above) there are nearly as many black/non-black couples as there are black/black couples. (86,443 both-black couples vs 75,410 mixed race couples). On educational attainment, couples with graduate or professional degrees were again almost even, with 160,367 black/black couples vs 146,763 black/non-black couples (More information on this can be found at here) One also has to wonder how many of those high SES black/black couples include high-yellow (’Yella’)or redbone wives
Keeping those stats in mind, I stated my belief that America is moving away from a white/non-white dichotomy toward a black/non-black dichotomy. This means that it will be good to be anything but black in America. Once a black moves up the social ladder, he has the option to marry someone that is not black and give his/her children or grandchildren - depending on their appearance - the increasing chance to ‘opt out’ of being black.
Memphis’ dark skinned mayor recently alluded to this as well by implying that Harold Ford, Jr’s Senate run would not be possible if he were dark skinned. Harold Ford began moving into the ‘non-black’ category with his announcement that his grandmother was white.
So if most of the grandchildren of the Tiger Woods’, Harold Fords, Derek Jeters, Soledad O’briens and other talented individuals (that are not necessarily famous) opt into the non-black category, the perception of what is ‘black’ (i.e., the poorer darker skinned masses) will likely be defined down to be significantly worse than it is today.
After hearing all of this, the brother said something that he probably already felt anyway. “That (opting out of blackness) may not be such a bad idea”
I suppose it could be called a new passing. This passing is not into whiteness, but into “non-blackness”.
According to this article between 35,000 and 50,000 young adults every year, who previously were identified by their parents as Black, switch to identifying themselves publicly as White or Hispanic. That sounds like a large number, but I can believe that many young adults - many for the good reason that they are racially mixed - have moved away from identifying themselves as solely black to being “other”. The “new passing” is not that drastic.
I am not addressing this from the aspect of a person identifying racially/ethnically the way he or she chooses. People should be able to self-identify their ethnicity. What I am talking about is individuals intentionally choosing to move themselves and their offspring away from being black in order to protect themselves (and their offspring) from racism and at the same time afford themselves more opportunities. Especially in the Muslim world where this is often magnified.
In the Muslim world, as many reading this know, lightening up the family (if one is able) is considered to be just good common sense, as I know that dark skinned (read: black) Palestinians, for example, often want to marry someone as white as possible in order to lighten up the family. (Once sufficiently light enough, they can then begin marrying their cousins)
A friend of mine currently living in Saudi Arabia - also a convert - mentioned that it is common for black Americans to claim and/or magnify any mixed-race heritage they may have in order to fit in with Saudis who otherwise would not sit with “zanooj”. He mentioned that light skinned black Americans have been known to outright claim to be Native Americans.
One of my current neighbors, who is a convert, very light-skinned, and of clear mixed background, told me that he did that himself when he was living there. He is married to an Arab, and his daughter looks like any Arab girl and because of that will probably not have much of a problem getting married.
So if you are a black convert and want to live in a Gulf country, then it is suggested - ala Harold Ford, Jr - that you play up your non-black background. So talk about that Irish great grand father or that Native American great-grandmother prominently. And if you are light enough - or you are “racially ambiguous” - then just be quiet.
By adopting this methodolgoy, a black convert’s kids would (potentially) not have to go through being that odd black kid at the masjid with no real friends and teased for being black. If they are light skinned and racially ambiguous enough, they could simply blend in with the other Muslim kids and, as a result, grow up less race conscious in their early years than a black “monoracial” child would.
Those of you that are black converts with young mixed-race children (or light skinned children) probably know that had your children been darker with kinkier hair, they would likely be much more racially conscious now.
To illustrate this, I am reminded of a fight between a 5 year old Syrian child and a 5 year old black American child that ensued after the Syrian child called the black child “the son of a black woman” (translation = “son of a bitch” but they mean it as much worse). This Syrian child during that fight called out racial epithets that would make one think that he was raised by David Duke.
A 5 year old mixed-race child normally would not have to face that kind of crap at such an early age and as a result would not be as racially conscious as a 5 year old black “monoracial” child.
To add to that, let me put it this way: If a four or five year old little girl (yes 4 or years old!) will call a grown man an “abd” (”slave”) what do you think they will call their peers? (I got a million racist Arab child stories, so don’t get me started)
Then in the ensuing outrage at the parents (who can blame the children?) at such things and suggestions that something be done about it, the typical response is “there is no racism in Islam” or “what problem?” or “you blacks complain too much”
So faced with these stark realities, and no signs that racism will be acknowledged - much less anything done about it - should a black convert person go ahead and lighten up the family (by marrying a good person that is not black) to allow their potential offspring to begin the move into the non-black category? This while also teaching their children that racism is wrong, and never look down on another human being, but because there are many that do, you must protect yourself.
Should a black convert couple encourage their child to marry a good person that is not black so as to fit in better in the world? Especially the Muslim world.
For many the answer is already a resounding ‘yes’
.
Suggested Reading: Who Is White?: Latinos, Asians, and the New Black/Nonblack Divide
Filed under: Black American Muslims, Changing World, Children's Issues, Convert Issues, Race
So, doesnt that just let the racist win. Just throw you hands up and say I give up, being Black is horrible and I will do what ever I can to not be. Anyway its already been done for generations and as you said being done now, nothings changed except that non-black and blacks associate more so the opportunity for intermarriage has increased.
I think with Muslims you have the two camps. The ones who once muslim take on the whole self hatred baggage of immigrant Muslims and want to completely distance themselves from being Black and the ones who love Islam because of it liberation theology and whole heartedly embrace their Africaness and identify with the African Muslim heritage. Unfortunately I think the latter group is shrinking.
As I’ve matured I’ve come to not have a problem with people deciding to identify as they wish but it does seem to be an afront to the ideals of Islam if you make a conscious decision that you do not want to be Black and decided to marry because of that. Instead of marrying someone who is compatible, good deen etc no matter the race. And marriages like that have problems because usually the kids grow up with a complex if the self hatred is palpable where the child may completely immerse themselves in the black community to the chagrin of the parents. Also the non-black spouse may end up being racist and take it out on the child who is more obviously black which is common in Arab/latin culture.
I should add that the last case is common in African American culture too (light sibling favored over dark sibling)
wow! Deep post Tariq.
Negative stereotypes based on skin colour are so depressing moreso given that the Muslim world seems to be worse affected by this problem than Western Europe/Americas.
A friend of mine - a black brother - said that when he used to ride the bus in a certain Arab muslim country school kids would keep asking him what the time was. He figured out later that they kept on saying this to him so that he would look down at his hand - his skin colour and see how black his skin was!
Um Abdillah:
The question is that if people - particularly Muslims - are going to continue to deny the very existence of racism can you blame a person for wanting to shield his/her offspring from such treatment?
With the perferring of lighter children, incidentally I see that it is a dark skinned parent that will treat the light skinned one better. Light skinned mothers tend to go out of their way to treat the dark one better
As for giving up the fight against racism, one can look at it as if it is trying to fight a flood with a bucket.
Secondly, as I stated, as black people (Muslims and non-Muslims) make opportunities for themselves with higher SES and education they and their children will opt out of blackness anyway. They will just not announce it to the world.
Black Muslim women will always have the option to marry lazy freeloading, uneducated Black men that can come live in their homes and be students of knowledge
This is deep. I was about to be offended until I realized that I did it myself
So how is that different from Muslims who try to pass as non-Muslims (Muhammad becomes Mo, Samir to Sam), I’ve actually had students tell me that some of their Muslim classmates try to identify as Christian.
I’m just not clear as to your point. If you are saying that mixed race or whatever blacks should not be forced to identify as Black than I agree. But to promote marrying white to pass just doesnt sit right with me. Granted I know this is what happenes all over the world, sometimes it seems that African Americans are the only ones against it.
I guess if you are upper class mostly like you will marry someone of a different race or a woman will end up marying down just because the numbers. I mean I was really surprised that there were so few Blacks couples making over 100K. I think going to the college in Atlanta gave me a false sense of the income levels of blacks since it seems almost all of my old classmates are all professionals (docs, lawyers and engineers), I just thought the numbers would be higher.
Kashif, you’re right, it is a deep post and it’s one that is taboo so I’m happy that brother Tariq had enough courage to talk about it.
Personally, I see it less of a
So how is that different from Muslims who try to pass as non-Muslims (Muhammad becomes Mo, Samir to Sam), I
Tariq, you know if my wife read this - she’d give you a resounding ‘hmpf!’
That aside - there are a lot of factors and emotions that gets mixed into this topic. My perspective is a bit different than most of the people I blog with and even run into at the masjid here where I am. Limiting the discussion with the racial dynanics internal to Muslim communities - I actually have begun to remove my children from most immigrant settings.
I grew up in the W.D. community and subsequently moved away from that community because of a need to gain a better understanding of Islam and provide my wife and children a more solid foundation of knowledge. But as a Muslim youth growing up in that community - there was never a discrepancy in my Islamic identity and my african american identity. I was both and proud of it. Period. I (nor the community itself) ever entertained the idea of adopting characteristcs of other races and cultures for whatever reason. No ones children ever felt like outsiders. There was never the looming threat of a racial epithet laced tirade. No one walked around on egg shells hoping that their children wouldn’t be called a slave or nigger on ‘Eid. We were raised as fully actualized human beings, equal before Allah except with regards to taqwa. THEN…
I moved to more immigrant based communities (you know, to get on the sunnah and the haqq and the manhaj blah blah) then all of a sudden…I became aware of the second class citizenship status of black people in these communities. Not all of course, but the element is present in most all immigrant based comminities. The list of contributing factors is too long to go into but I did make a joke to Tariq once that based on the way these immigrant communties half-heartedly make overtures to African Americans - I bet there are some African Americans who really believe that if they do make it to Jannah, they will have to sit in the back with headphones on…waiting for the translation.
Now all of a sudden I’m worried for my wife. I’m worried for my kids and the affect psychologically this would have on them over time. I want them to grow up confidently Muslim and African American like I did. I do not want them viewing their skin or background with disdain because they have taken on this attitude via osmosis in the immigrant communities. So…
Despite my misgivings and disagreements on some issues (and the fact that I’m a free agent now and pop in and out to pray where ever) I have conciously started to incorporate my kids into the local W.D. community to avoid the psychological russian roulette that I would have to deal with at other places. Then Insha Allah when they are older, they than have a solid enough background to make their own choices regarding community. And…I expose them to the immigrant communties also. They go to an Islamic school where there is a healthy mix. But at the end of the day, I want them to be comfortable with who they are.
the problem is that the Islamic schools are 90% immigrant run and grounded in their culture
Yeah - you’re right about that. Problem #2 is where I live they’re the only shop in town. The Clara Muhammad school here in Memphis closed a few years ago due to (gasp!)…lack of support.
And it is those things that I have to take part of the blame for. I was one who left that community, withdrew my support and beraded them as loud as I could for being deviants and this and that. If I knew then what I know now…
In all honesty, and I hope I don
You do come across as racist and that is just the attitude that I’m pulling my children away from. I prefer my kids marry for taqwa.
Bro. Rashad I completely agree with you. As I get older I start having more and more respect for Imam WD Muhammad and what he has accomplished in America, when you really reflect on it, its truly phenominal that there are communities with third and fourth generation indiginous Muslims here in America. He has a lot of wisdom that I really didn’t understand when I was younger. Its one of the reasons why I sometimes want to move back to Atlanta because I don’t want my kids growing feeling like second class citizens because of their skin color or ethnicity. I have plenty of immigrant or second generation friends but with most there is just something missing. It feels weird being in a room when everyone breaks into urdu, this happens even with American born desi Muslims. But that being said I do not want to segregate my children like some in WD community do. There has to be a balance. I guess ultimately it starts at home. instilling a stront Islamic identity and making sure they are not ashamed of their background.
Rashad,
I must apologize for coming across that way because I’m really not like that at all. I was trying to be honest about what I want my grandkids to look like since I won’t be producing anymore kids (Allah knows best) of my own.
For parents, isn’t it in our nature for our kids and their offspring to be a reflection of us and what we look like. If I have blue eyes and blonde hair, I would want those characteristics passed down the line because I when I see that child, in essence, I will see a reflection of myself. That’s all I was trying to say.
Of course, I want my kids to marry for taqwa, that goes without being said.
Again, my sincere apologies for those who I have offended.
Shama
Umm Abdullah:
I think that the stench of racism (as shown in that post above) is what produces the almost other extreme of, as you put it, segregation in the W.D. community. It is a reaction to what is found in many immigrant communities here and in Muslim countries all over the world. To be honest, I do not blame them at all and I completely understand. Again, refer to -
“but I would be disappointed if my bi-racial sons wanted to marry an AA or dark skinned woman. ”
- and I would and am probably going to those same lengths to protect my kids from this pitiful and quite franky “superior’ attitude. Man, look - lets be real. I tell my kids ( MY AFRICAN AMERICAN KIDS) to make sure that in school they are the best. No matter what. Those fair skinned Arabs and others can giggle and “feel” superior all they want - come report card time - you’ll be at the top. Come Qur’an recitation time - you’ll be the best. Come flag football time - kick butt. I keep my kids reading 2 grades up because of the attitude (sigh - as shown above) that has Arab kids (and others) resting on their laurals thinking that all they have to do is be lightskinned and arab and they automatically are the best. BS. If you’re going to feel superior - at least DO something superior first. If not, get out of the way and give the 1st place trophy to my kids.
Shama Noor:
No, when you make the statement:
It’s interesting that you have raised this issue Tariq, because here in the UK amongst the African Caribbean Reverts (i.e Black British as we like to describe ourselves), it is an unspoken taboo. Many brothers and sisters have this obsession for marrying partners from Morocco or Pakistan. The main reason that I encounter is atttraction. It may also be that subconsciously we want to ‘improve’ our standing amongst the wider community. One thing for sure is that relative to the wider black community (which is mostly West African) our children are markedly ‘lighter’. I have a strange feeling that in years to come these ‘lighter’ offspring will do what many East African Muslims - Somalians, some Kenyans ,northern Sudanese and Ethiopians-have done (in Africa and to a lesser extent the Uk) by emphatically distinguishing themselves as not being ‘black’ and being superior to ‘blacks’.
It is always something I’ve found strange and I found myself asking ‘Why in the ‘dunya’ are AC reverts happy to marry ‘their own’ and in the deen we are more open minded to different nationalities’? To be honest, on my part as a brother (unmarried) it has been due to selection and probability. In the dunya I could select/choose the type of partner I liked and the pool was a lot larger amongst Black sisters. Once I entered the deen, the pool of available Black sisters who I’m attracted to is smaller and I am not as independant in my selection i.e. generally I can only take what I’m given.Therefore, the easiest thing to do is to seek a Pakistani or Moroccan sister that way there is a much greater probability of me getting ‘what I want’.
Brother Rasahd,
If you knew me, it WOULD go without saying that I want my kids to marry for taqwa. You act as if you have me figured out from one statement that I made. You know nothing about me, my friends, my kids, my community or my life.
Masha Allah, I am happy to see that you are so on your deen that you never think about wordly and insignificant things such as hair and eye color. One day I wish to achieve that level of piety. But for now, I will be real and tell it like it is.
Your SISTER in Islam,
Shama
No I do not know you. I only know what you blog. However, you were crystal clear in your statement.
I’m concerned for my kids and insha Allah whatever comes after because I do not have the luxury of coming from a Muslim culture to fall back on. It has nothing to do with ‘being on my deen’. Nice try but my concern as one who’s family (except for my father) is all christian is that my kids do not get lost in a sea of kufr because that’s what my family for the most part is deep in. Why should I worry about eye color and hair? I have bigger fish to fry man. Do not try to drag me to the other extreme by implying that because I’m sooooo righteous, I cannot possibly be concerned with worldy affairs. My point about physical characteristics being desired in off-spring in context with the discussion was clear.
Tariq…no you did not go there! I read your post with this uncomfortable laugh and twitch…like I had the disease…what’s it called? Really, I don’t know what to say. Honestly, in my case things just happened like this. I had no intention to marry a white man…never thought of it…still in shock! All my life I pictured myself having little chocolate babies (don’t ask me how cuz I’m the darkest person on both sides of my family and I pass the brown paper bag test). After starting to practice Islam, the pictures were more like the ‘Chillies’ (TLC) and ‘Tatiana Ali types…dark with ‘good hair’. Cuz you know I got Indian in my family…lol. Plus, I just figured I’d marry an Arab or a fine Black Man.
So yeah, I got kids that can pass for er’thing but black, in this part of the world. Now if we were in America things would be different, cuz you can’t fool black people the same way…we can spot our people no matter how much they think they passing. I don’t try to pass my kids off as anything here, how can I? However, for some strange reason, the people overlook the fact that I am black. My husband’s boss actually told my husband (after he told him he was married to a black woman), that I wasn’t black…I was wheat. I said, how does he know what I am. Then I found out his wife goes to my tafeeth school! In America, I was always the girl that the Arab women would approach to marry a relative. At first I was flattered until I realized that it was to a. bring them over from their country and b. cuz I was not ‘that black’.
You said:So faced with these stark realities, and no signs that racism will be acknowledged - much less anything done about it - should a black convert person go ahead and lighten up the family (by marrying a good person that is not black) to allow their potential offspring to begin the move into the non-black category?
I think that it is highly circumstantial. I’m glad that you mentioned that the person should be ‘good’. That should always be the priority. Islam keeps it real. Our Prophet (salla allahu alahi wa salam) informed us that there are 4 reasons people generally get married. Your scenario may fit the profile, if that is what is important to that person. I often wonder who my children will marry. After looking for piety and good character, I have some other factors that are important. Color was never a factor, nationality is. It would be nice if they could marry Saudis, if Allah allows us to live our lives here. Not just any Saudis mind you. I wish my dh had more contact with the Ulema and other pious and knowledgeable families, because I would have him use his ‘complexion for the connection’ to get my children some good spouses, insha’Allah. Not saying that our Ulema would be impressed with his whiteness, they insha’Allah are far above that.
Umm Abdullah said:
I guess if you are upper class mostly like you will marry someone of a different race or a woman will end up marrying down just because the numbers. I mean I was really surprised that there were so few Blacks couples making over 100K. I think going to the college in Atlanta gave me a false sense of the income levels of blacks since it seems almost all of my old classmates are all professionals (docs, lawyers and engineers), I just thought the numbers would be higher.
Spelman? Clark? Freak Nic? lol!What year?
Yeah, those were your classmates who prolly left Atlanta. Atlanta is the black peoples ‘Mecca’. It is a melting pot of different SES blacks. You have your welfare chasers and you have your elite. The sad reality is that if black women of a higher SES insist on marrying only black men, then the majority of those who do, will marry down. I see this in our own Muslim communities and it hurts me. But you know what, some of them are loyal for dumb reasons. I know Muslim women who admit that they just need to have a man with a lil thug in them. I had a friend who was always joking about a Muslim Woo Tang…funny but not so when you see the end results.
I just asked my 6 year old ‘passing’ daughter to be honest with me, what color does she want her husband to be?
She first gave me her pc answer, “really it doesn’t matter what color he is as long as he is Muslim”. I kept a poker face so she wouldn’t think her answer was right or wrong. Then she continued, “Actually, I want to marry a white man” Looking at me with a half smile, to see my reaction. I said in a matter of fact tone, that’s alright, your father is white. She went on laughing saying, “and I want my kids to be white…all of them, so that they all look alike.” So I laughed with her and said, so you don’t want your children to be black? She said, “yeah they can be black, but if I have black kids, I want them to all be black so that they look alike.”
This actually made sense to me. It reminded me of an incident that happened today. I was walking pass a white American woman’s house, that I haven’t seen in almost two years. I decided to be neighborly and ranged her bell to see how she was doing. She made such a big fuss over my baby and my oldest daughter, she was nice to my “Halle Berry’ complexion daughter, but she did not comment on her looks at all. She kept playing in the baby and the big girls hair (and they all have the same exact hair but my oldest is a shade lighter) and telling my big girl while rubbing her face how pretty she was. She would say how cute the baby was but nothing about my other daughter. Masha’Allah, la hawla wa la qawatta illah billah.
My big girl was loving it as she craves attention (which I hate because I always thought ‘pretty girls’ were easy cuz all u have to do is tell them how pretty they are and I seek refuge in Allah from my children being like this), but children are smart and she must have picked up on the difference of the treatment…prompting her saying that she wants all her children to look a like (this is just one example…ppl are always saying ohhh Saudah wa Adam same same Baba…Ramlah same same you…even though my two ‘white’ babies look nothing like their father and take after my family and my lil honey color baby looks like her father spit her out with some coffee and cream).
And furthermore…
How am I supposed to take it? When you basically have said to me - your “brother” in Islam - “Your African American daughter is not good enough for my sons” and “Your African American wife is obviously less than me”
Then because you follow that up with an apology about offending anyone, I’m supposed to just say,”oh , well yeah ok - cool”.
This is the reality of the “community” that I now dread.
Rashad if you thought that was offensive you ain’t seen nothing
Yeah tell me about it. That’s why you’ll find my kids with the “deviants” in the WD community. I have no tolerance for centuries deep, implicitly approved religious racism.
Rashad and Um Abdullah
Imam WD Mohammed’s community is not the one that is segregated. It is the immigrant communiteis that are segregated from the rest of America. Let’s stop using the immigrant communities as the gold standard
Just a reminder:
Check all emotional baggage at the door before proceeding to read, because this is going to be a little controversial.
I agree 100% with Wali.
And so no one gets the wrong idea, in general I’m not advocating seperating into ethnic communites. That’s not Islam either. but take a step back and look at the overall development of African American (adult and youth) that are under the umbrella of an immigrant communty. look at the psycholgical toll it has taken on several brothers, sisters, and kids. Tariq has already posted many discussions on this topic. Years of not being good enough, not being Muslim enough, not being light-enough, not uderstanding the Imam’s language. Being left out of pockets of foreign language conversations, not having a say in the direction of the discussions or the overall direction of the masjid…it finally takes its toll.
I’m sorry, but letting your kids sit with ‘clear’ deviants, so that they do not feel racially inferior, is a no go. There are plenty, Ahlus Sunnah, African American communities that would be better for them to be with. I understand your frustration, but your kids can not live in a little black bubble always. They will eventually have to go out in this big bad racist world anyway. We only get one chance to raise them correctly, I would not let my animosity for racist or anything else be my reason for allowing my children to endoctrinated in deviant teachings.
All this praise for Wrong Direction and his stankin community, just cuz they black and have an Afrocentric focus. Isn’t that reason enough to stay far away from them?
Just pray you and your loved ones don’t die and they are the only ones left to bury you. They have jacked up many of a ‘janaza’ if that’s what you can call it, in my family. I have a deathly ill father who he and his family are still loyal to this man, and I have been trying to get him to come live with me for years. His family keeps saying he is to sick yadda yadda. I know! That’s why I want him here…I would rather he die here after what they did at my cousins so clled janaza!!!!!!!!!GRRRRRRR GRRRRRRRRRR GRRRRRRRR
Ok, I use the word “deviants” in MOCKING reference to those who look down to them without good reason. They have issues, just like every other community but I stick to what I said. I’m sorry but I ain’t in Saudi.
In retrospect, I have far more respect for what they went through to raise families in this country successfully than worrying about their adherence to what the Saudi ‘ulama claim is the true islam.
Years of not being good enough, not being Muslim enough, not being light-enough, not uderstanding the Imam
What is so criminal about what Shama said? it is personal preference
Tariq, you are not getting away with starting this mess and expect us not to want to know your take on this. What gives? Did you marry a ‘good’ non black to lighten up your family? Do you want your kids to eventually ‘white wash’ you out of the family.
And one more thing, for those considering this… Genes aint no joke…a few generations from now that mandingo blood could kick in.
Just a reminder (wink to Umm Adam):
Then in the ensuing outrage at the parents (who can blame the children?) at such things and suggestions that something be done about it, the typical response is
Seriously though Umm Adam - (and yes, Verily it’s all Tariq’s fault)
I have not widthdrawn my family from the immigrant community. I’ve expanded the communities that I expose them to to include the WD community. I was too concerned with being on the manhaj before but now my perspective has changed.
My kids still go to immigrant masjids (as well as the school). The foundation of their Islamic knowledge is spread out. But as some of us are reluctant to admit, there is that element that they will always be missing out on. That’s why I make it a point to go see my brothers and sisters with the WD crowd. I love them. I grew up with them. I want my kids to have what I had.
I don’t think anything was wrong with what Shama said. Tariq put it out there, I’m assuming he wanted honest answers. She gave an honest answer.
My husband has an all white daughter. He never says anything to make her seem superior than his mixed kids because truth be told I think they all white to him…lol! Anyway, I’m glad he has an all white daughter who will give him perhaps all white grandchildren. If he had more money and I were stronger in my faith and wasn’t so selfish and demanding of my time, I would want him to have a white wife so they could have more white babies. I can’t exactly explain my reasons. He never ever indicates that he is unhappy or uncomfortable with me or misses being around white people, but I have always wanted for others what I want for myself and sense I know how much I miss ‘my people’ than I know he must miss his even if he doesn’t mention it.
Not to mention, Shama says she has biracial sons. She did not say what mix they are, but if its black in there than maybe she realises the edge her sons have and do not want them to go (close your eyes sensitive viewers) ‘backwards’. Maybe she is black and knows the struggle. Or maybe her husband is black (could be one of the bruthas who opted out) and she doesn’t want the kids to go throw what she sees him going throw. Who knows…just trying to give a sista some excuses. Either way it goes, it’s her prerogative
Londoner,
I think that the term “partner” for a husband or wife is something that contradicts the principles of Islam as this was a term invented to eliminate the differences between husband and wife and gay and straight.
AS far as passing goes, your average African-American brothers “on the sunnah” ends up being little more than the Arabs bi*** and why anyone would want to pass for being an Arab or South Asian is beyond me as I can hardly think of two more failed cultures in the modern world and at least African-Americans have the coolness thing going for them and are the image of global coolness (which the black British, who tend to be square try and imitate).
I think it’s time for a little poetry to lighten the mood.
Kill my landlord……lol just kidding
The Choice Is Yours By Kevin Powell
no Black self-love
no Black-on-Black love
no Black-on-Black love
no Black relationships
no Black relationships
no Black family
no Black family
no Black community
no Black community
no Black spirituality
no Black spirituality
no Black consciousness
no Black consciousness
no Black ownership
no Black ownership
no Black power
no Black power
no Black possibilities
no Black possibilities
no Black people
no Black people
no Black future
Why white people (Umar Lee) always got summin to say bout our situations?
Anyway…..wait…hubby just came home gotta go! Be back later.
Jazakellah Khair Sister UMM ADAM for your comments. As I tried to explain to the brother before, he knows nothing about me and my family and I don’t feel I need to defend myself any further especially after I politely apologized for offending him or anyone else for that matter.
He doesn’t know if I’m an immigrant or a convert or what race I am. My name doesn’t tell a darn thing about me. But since the brother was on a roll, I let him do his thing. I’m not going to sit here and debate with him for being open and honest about how I feel.
Umm Adam:
When I got married, I must admit that at that time when thinking deep down there was a desire to ‘authenticate’ myself within the larger community, but no desire to ‘whitewash’ the family.
In the masjid I attended most often (in my former town and the town Rashad still lives in) the classes and the khutbah were in Arabic and the english speakers were relegated to the back of the masjid (LITERALLY) to listen to a translation.
So the converts were second class citizens and this partially drove my desire to learn Arabic. Once I started becoming fluent, I got to move to the front of the masjid.
So when I got married, I was looking for someone with the language. This would also - my thinking at the time - help my future family’s integration into the Muslim community. Sounds naive I know, but that is how I looked at it at the time.
I’m burying the hatchet…Shama Noor. I never claimed to know anything about you. I commented on your comment. Not you as a person (whom I do not know). Just like others comment on my comments. That’s all we are seeing of each other on this blog is our comments.
I guess I didn’t leave my emotions at the door. (Bad, BAAAAD TSRP)
Sorry but I feel that Umer you went below the belt there. That was uncalled for matey. Cor blimey. (That’s cockney by the way which black british tend NOT to speak)
As for the term partner, like any term we use unless it has been copyrighted we shouldn’t necessarily allow ourselves to stoop to distorted constructions of a term outside its original meaning esp when that new construction is the EXCEPTION not the RULE. Viewing things through the prism of Islam, I only mean partner to mean a male-female marriage. Have husna dhan of my intentions akh.
‘At least African-Americans have the coolness thing going for them and are the image of global coolness (which the black British, who tend to be square try and imitate)’
As I advised Tariq a few weeks ago, a 1 week trip to London inc. flight ticket, hotel, and travel expenses shouldn’t be more than $600-800. If u’ve already been to the Uk then, come with the intention this time to challenge your pre existing viewpoints about London. I strongly feel that many of your observations about the UK on your blog are exaggerated, sweeping and plain inaccurate. Wouldn’t it be wiser to come to the UK, meet and see some bros here and the communities here instead of making judgements based on media reports.
I don’t wanna enter into a slanging match cos I reckon U’d win any day and we’re Muslims so it’s haram BUT what you said about Black Brits imitating the US isn’t accurate. Most youngsters from all communities inc. Asians (Desis not Orientals here), Somalis and White kids try to imitate Jamaicans. In the Uk, Jamaicans, NOT African Americans are seen as the epitome of cool. That’s why Ali G (who is quite big in the States) doesn’t have a fake Yankee accent, he has a poor wanna be jamaican accent. AAs are seen as cool for definite but no more so than ACs, the ultimate ‘bad men’ (OGs) are ‘Jamaican Yardies’. Allah masta’an.
I actully have a balling family out there in the US and even with their dough, they wanna (but can’t afford an equivalent UK home which would be approximately $6-800,000 here) come to the Uk bad, why? because they accept that pound for pound the UK is a better place to be at.
Umer, keep doing you’re thing Akh, i really love you for the sake of Allah and like your blog a hell of alot. Just give us Brits less of a hard time.
TSRP, was that a public tawbah? Verily, your bayaan has rectified and clarified your position on the status of our sister, indeed. Takbeer! (thought I’d add that, since you love the WD community so much)
Shama Noor, hmmm name sounds Indo-Pak, or African, or Sufi. Your use of the word ‘darn’ indicates that you could be white or under the influence of. “I let him do his thing”,almost nabbed you for one of us..but I could be wrong. If you had said ‘thang’ that would have sealed it. So we still don’t know a darn thing about you [sunnah smile see molars]
Tariq, what was naive about that? Doesn’t it help? I think having bilinguel children is a great way to integrate into the Muslim community, without the colorism.
I just thought Ali G was speaking bad/broken exaggerated hip hop English. That’s supposed to be a Jamaican accent?? lol
(pssst!- ya’ll know he’s a jew right? - just tossing a conspiracy out there)
Lol@Umm Adam.
They do “Takbeer” a lot
Sister Umm Adam you are too darn funny.
I guess I’ll just keep ya guessin’.
Londner, thanks for the words, but I have been to London btw,.
Umm Adam
What I meant was that I was naive in trying to be Arab-centric and tried to Arabize myself instead of working to make the community more open to all ethnicities. There was a near apartied system in the masjid
Of course the benefit was that I learned Arabic and my children speak the language, alhamdulillah
I remember when the foreign wive thing started and brothers started trashing black sisters and brotehrs were indirectly presurred to divorce their black wives for an exotic foreign one. Tariq you are really bringing some points home bro
How did AA Muslims reach a point that they felt like they had to “pass” into another ethnicity? This takes the cake
Why is Wali such a popular name with the WD Community?
[...] Tariq Nelson has opened a big ole can of worms
Ashamed, I just mentioned that very thing to Tariq. There was definitely a thing going around to make brothers who had AA wives and had children seem less than the ideal ‘Islamic Family’.
And that’s the atmosphere that Tariq is describing when he came around. I read above (I forget who said it) that outside of Islam the options for finding AA mates were more open. Meaning, there were a lot of fish in the sea. But after coming into Islam and finding a different racial make-up, it becomes more difficult. And let’s be real…brothers (and sisters) are and were looking for (ahem) companionship which adds more pressure to find someone without the luxury of waiting around to find the perfect cultural match.
Tariq,
Akhi you got alot of comments in the short time you posted this. MashAllah.
Rashad,
On the flip side of the WD community, when I came into Islam, I was treated much the same way that AA muslims are treated at the immigrant mosques. It only lightened up (no pun intended) when some of the people at the masjid found out that I was’nt the son of a white lady married to a Syrian who was trying to have an “experience”. Still after this, for more that 2 years people would walk away from me when I gave them Salam, pull their children away from me like i was diseased, and quiz me on the devilish nature of the whiteman. I mean, thats better than everyone thinking youre the popo, but its still not right.
But with all this, I still love them, because many of the brothers were positive role models for me. They were independent businessmen, educators, Imams, etc.
I remember meeting Imam Yahya of Dallas, and knowing after that, that Arabic is not sole property of the Arabic ethnicity.
And they had a certain ‘izzah to their Islam that I didn’t find in most Muslims. With them you can be a Muslim and a productive member of American society.
The problem I saw with many of their children was that they did have a “Muslim” identity, but it never really differed from the one that the immigrant kids had (i.e. as for Islam, not race & nationality)
In the end of the day they were doing much of the same dirt as everyone else.
And that “Proud Blackman” attitude that was so strong in the community held it back to some extent, because if you weren’t quoting the “Imam” then you had no real knowledge, and so positive influences in the community were lost as far a Islamic education.
All in All, the model that Imam WD set was a much more viable one for americans in a civic sense, but with lack of religious knoweldge the fabric of the community stays harder and harder to weave and mend.
His (WD) own children and grandchildren don’t have Islamic Identities. I think the families cursed personally (The seeds of Elijah).
Did the children have Muslim mothers? Do you think because he was so active and probably didnt spend time with them that thats why they dont have a strong identity. I mean are they Muslim and are just not dressing obviously Muslim. Thats common across communities. Or did they formally leave Islam?
I don’t see what is so controversial about what Tariq is saying. Given the selection of choosing a partner is, in Islam, a rational process rather than simply a matter of the heart (i.e. falling in love), some people may choose wives or husbands such that it gives any prospective children the best opportunity in life. Unfortunately, racism is a fact of life and, in some societies, it can have a crippling effect on a person and severely limit their opportunities in life. Therefore, I don’t think it’s right to impugn someone that wants to “lighten up” their kids or, as might be the case in another society, “darken them up” as a race traitor or whatever. In many cases, I would imagine, they are motivated by pragmatism and realism rather than some sort of self-loathing or insecurity about their own colour.
I thought as much that Umer had already been to London thats why I said:
‘If u
Amir makes a good point about ‘darkening up” your kids. Which is exactly why some white brothers choose to marry AA sisters and Latinas. I remember Umar had something on his blog about this awhile back.
I think Tariq touched a nerve with this one, actually for once I have to side with “TheSaveRashadProject”. Having children of a mixed cultural background (AA and White) and living a Latino Country (California) and sending my kids to an Islamic (Immigrant) School has definately put a strain on my children. I will say this in general out of all “races” AA are most accepting of outsiders, my son or daughter can go into any African American community Muslim or non-Muslim and be given the same love as any other AA kids, however when it comes to the immigrant, white, or latino communities there is always a stigma attached to thier ethnicity to one degree or another. Immigrants and Latinos (notice I didn’t include latinos with immigrants) want to claim them for themselves because they can fit in which to me is equally as offensive I don’t want my kids Arabized or Latinocized thank you very much. And whites out here generally look down their noses at everyone outside of their socio-economic status. I had the whole WD discussion with Tariq some months back, stating I have never been a harsh critic of his community and remember often times stating that we needed to engage his community but it was something people were not ready for at that time. If you contribute to a community they are more likely to hear where you are coming from and listen to you rather than being a critic from the outside doing nothing. “People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care”. When it comes to providing for the social needs of African American Muslims there is not a community out there that can compete with the WD community. This is not to condone any practices that contradict the sunnah rather it is a humilating fact for those to claim to be adhering to the way of the Salaf. I understand Rashad’s point fully as a parent you are going to raise your children in a healthy atmosphere where they recieve love and a strong sense of belonging. In terms of Tariq’s point on AA lightening up, I think the feeling of wanting to protect your children from harm is a natural one. However that being stated I also know that a certain amount of hardship is good for your children it teaches them to be resiliant in the face of adversity. Now I may not be able to speak on the African American experience as one annonymous coward so boldly pointed out on another post, however I can speak from the perspective of a White Muslim who from the point of view of the majority of White America is a traitor at worst or confused at best…
Kinda depressing post but Alhamdu Lillah for the Qiyaama when all scores will be settled…
Until then we must keep our heads up and be secure in ourselves knowing that our value lies in our souls, true iman and out love for humanity and what we can do to better the human condition…
Assalamu alaikum, as a white person, who is totally blind, I wasn’t raised with the “color / race-conscienceness, that so many have. So for me this whole “color” thing is just so abstract to me! I want to say “what is the big deal”. But I understand what you are saying, but it is on such an abstract level, because I can’t see it! Does that make any sense? I guess coming from a white person, this might sound pretentious! But I don’t know how else to explain it. If Allah wills to give me my sight back, then one of the first things I want to learn about is “color”. I want to know what the big deal is! Is “black” really thta ugly, methinks not! Ugh, I want to say “sighted people”, and say it in that snide, snooty way, like “what’s wrong with you guys”, but there are also blind people who are racists too, I’d imagine though I’m not one of them. If anything blindness has made me more “open-minded” I guess you could say.
Rasheed you make some good points but at the end of the day, like Ginny says, it is easy for a white to say all that. Being black is crap in the Muslim world
Assalamu alaikum, could the racism in the Muslim world be the reason why African Muslims are looked down upon? Note an article I posted on my blog, where a Senegalese Muslim said that they have their own masjids so they don’t get any trouble from the Arab Muslims? Probably so.
Regarding my issues with color, well, it’s a hard one becuase I really don’t understand, I mean, as I said, I understand, but I don’t, because color is something that I’ve never seen and can’t identify with. But I’m somehow not allowed to say that because I’m white. Making that statement somehow gets construed as ignoring the problem of racism and prejudice, which I can assure you I fully know exists! But I just can’t understnad why. I’m tempted to say how close-minded and smple that sighted people are, but that would be just as wrong as stereotyping all white people as bieng racists or whatever. (you know I actually heard a blind person use the term “sighty” a la “whitey”, to describe a sighted person, and I laughed so hard, though sometimes I jokingly use that term myslef). As a blind person, there are times when I want to condemn all sighted people as being ignorant about blind people, etc. And I’ve often seen / found similarities between how racism plays itself out and how the dynamics between blind and sighted, or disalbed / nondisabled people. Not sure if this makes any sense and quite possibly, this is another blog post in the making.
Notice the trend in some of the ayaat, most of mankind reflect not, most of mankind do not believe, most of mandkind are not gratefull…
The point being here is we should not think too highly of mankind to be able to conquer these deep seated issues because most will not…
The peace comes in accepting that most of mankind will kick you in your teeth for doing the right thing and that you will have to endure patiently until you stand in front of your lord.
Rasheed,
If we gathered a person of every race, and asked them how they’ve been treated by the community of another. Then presented the results without mention of ethinicity, I am sure that we would find the results strikingly similar if not the same.
Yusuf,
“being Black is crap in the Muslim world”
Why is that?
Because we think that the Muslim world consists of the Gulf, egypt, and pakistan.
Why doesnt Black Africa come to mind when we say “Muslim World”
When we say scholar why don’t we think of any that are there?
If you are black, and go to Black Africa, you are sure to have an easier time than I would. And that was the advice of my African friends when I wanted to visit there during the summer. All of them told me to hire a body guard if I travel alone. Why? Because people don’t like whitey in West/central Africa, and they will call you names, taunt you in public, and possibly attack you (i have never been, this is what my African friends tell me)
A Blackamerican friend of mine told me has no problem, as he puts it he has the “complexion for the connection”
Things are relative.
Why doesn’t Black Africa come to mind when mentioning the Muslim world?
B/c we have allowed ourselves to become preconditioned to the concept of what a “real” Muslim is.
True, white Muslims have a whole nother set of problems. The Muslim world likes white when it is time to marry for themselves (but not their daughters…unless they are divorced or jinn possessed), or they respect them in a secular sense, or they use them to validate Islam, but they really ain’t down with them otherwise. It’s all superficial.
Salam alaikum to all, as an east african woman living in the UK i have encountered racism from my own people when i wanted to marry an african-caribbean man. This man had everything going for him in terms of deen and education and i thought it would impress my parents. But i was foolish. One if their reasons was that they viewed him more “african2 than themselves ie kinky hair and wider nose. Its true everyone wants to get away from being black. Arabs and asians wouldnt want to marry east africans because they are darker, east africans disply this nonsense to west africans and other black people. So many times have i hear pakistanis say they wouldnt marry bengalis because they are draker and so on. Its a culture we need to get rid off. Beauty is defined through skin colour.
In the UK almost every successful black man is amrried to a white woman due to upward mobility and acceptance. Now too many dumb african carribean brothers are doing the same. As a black woman we should be creating a strong black household where our children can be proud of their ancestors and not going off to marry in morroco or pakistan. If we keep on the black race will die in Europe.
[...] The New
i want to say something but i think i shouldnt
i dont know
man
…… maybe later
Wow, lots of interesting stuff on an interesting topic. It isnt some blacks that want to “whiten” up the gene pool, Arabs love that too.
Being a white guy married to an Arab woman I found that first we gained a level of acceptance in the Arab community that would not have been there were I black. I also found that the comments about our children almost always went back to looks, skin colour, hair colour and the like.
All of the Arabs think it is so great that we have “white” babies, light skin, hair, coloured eyes. For me it never mattered really.
I find the racism in the Muslim community just outrageous. It is more than a bit hypocritical when you consider many Arabs I know are much darker than the average African American community anyway.
As to the UK/London thing, I never got the impression that Brits of African background tried to be white. I guess it depends on where you go in the UK.
I lived outside of London for several years. Umar needs to take a weekend off and head to Brixton and see what he thinks of black Brits then. It might change his opinion.
Why is maintaining racial purity such an admirable or even important objective?
And, as an aside, would this statement be equally acceptable:
Black men and Asian women are known for marrying whites when given the opportunity. Everyone has a choice.
Hood
African Americans are derided as “obrunis” when they visit West Africa. Plus, there is nothing in Sub-saharan Africa but chaos and poverty. They want to leave too
Ed,
There has been a lot of good going on in sub-Saharan Africa in the last 50 years, most of those who leave desire and many actually do return home. Chaos and poverty is all unfortunate outsiders too busy with their blinders and Tarzan and Zulu movies can see.
“Kinda depressing post but Alhamdu Lillah for the Qiyaama when all scores will be settled
Well Amir the issue is not about race but instilling prideness in black people who subconciously think that marrying a non black person is upward mobility. As a black person we have to do something about it which is marrying a black person to create a black family( which is rare in the UK). Martin Luther King and Malcolm X didnt marry white women and fight racism at the same way. They acted according to their era. Many black people want to fit in and will look into ways of maximising that. There isnt a strong black community with deep culture and roots for black young people to look up to, a home with 2 black parents can provide that however.
Leila are you saying that black men have some duty to marry black women? Because of the struggles of MLK and Malcolm we have the freedom to marry who we love regardless of race
No i am not saying you have some duty to marry black women only, people are attracted to other races as well and that is understandable. However as the article indicates you are more likely to marry a non black as you move up the social ladder. Upward mobility for some means marrying lighter skinned person etc. Example is that a black sudanese would want to marry a half arab and half sudanese person. The mixed race sudanese would want to marry a full blooded arab. An arab man’s desire is blue-eyed blonde woman. Many sudanese feel embarrased about Alek Wek. Racism or prejudices is well and alive. I see it important raising children that believe black is beautiful and having a black husband does help. It would be helpful as well that black brothers do marry from their own race to create a good, strong minded black individuals and not run off to Morocco or Pakistan to marry a woman he hardly has anything in common with.
Leila I looked at a pic of Alek Wek and I don’t find her attractive at all and I’m black. Am I racist?
LOL KID PASTA, YOU CRACK ME UP. I DIDNT ASK WHETHER SHE IS ATTRACTIVE OR NOT. BUT THAT SOME SUDANESE WANT TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES AWAY FROM HER BECAUSE SHE IS “DARKER” THAN THEM, HAS A KINKY HAIR, A WIDER NOSE. Its racial prejudice whether she is a catwalk model or a politician. Beauty is defined by how close you look to a white woman.
yeah but Leila the implication of your first post was that if you dont find those features attractive then you are racist
The thing I don’t understand is that there appears to be a circular logic to all this. If there is a lot of anti-black racism in a society, it means that white men/women will be reluctant to marry a black person because, in their warped racist view of the world, it would mean they are ‘trading down’. Therefore, it is argued, the way to combat this for black men/women to only marry black women/men. However, I would have thought that multiracial marriages — two people’s triumph, as it were, over the racism of a particular society — sends a far more powerful message to the world; and that this is, in some ways, one of the hallmarks of a society that has overcome racism: that people can see beyond race.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone but this is one of the things that has always perplexed me.
Why aren
Assalamu alaikum, regarding how Est Africans treat white people, I’ve traveled to The Gambia and Senegal, and I don’t recall being treated badly by anyone. I don’t recall being taunted, and I never felt unsafe, although I never went walking around by myself late at night, on a dark street either.
However, I’m sure that if I looked hard enough, I’d find someone who didn’t like me because I was white! In fact, in my experience, I got treated worse by the African-American students who were in the study group with me, than I did by the West Africans that I encountered. Two things I clearly remember was one of the girls in my group saying, “All white people are racist, they just don’t know it.” And I thought, hmmm, I can’t believe I didn’t know that about myself. And I said, “If I were a racist, what would I be doing sitting here in the middle of West Africa!” Of course, I guess people who don’t know me will say that that doesn’t matter, because I’m white, I’m just genetically preprogrammed to hate black people. Antoher event I clearly remember was one day in class, when we were talking about slavery, colonialism, etc., some of the men in the class said something to the affect of “How does it feel to be back here in the mother land, now that you enslaved our people.” etc., etc., to the point that some people were almost in tears over it! Not to metnion the time that someone in the group asked me “What are YOU doing here”, as if I had no right to be here. Or there I should say. And this reminds me of an interesting story a friend of mine told me.
One of his friends, I think it was, went and had oen of those genetic tests done where you can trace your ancestry. This guy found that 2% of his ancestry could be traced back to The Gambia. So on hearing that, I said, “Oh, that’s not surprising, he’s African-American, many slaves came from that part of West Africa”. Trouble is, my friend stopped me and said, “No, you don’t understand, most of his family is Irish, and he looks completely white!” What a shock! My friend, by the way, is African-American. Everyone calls him Doc because he’s always helping people, etc. with their problems. Anyway, my whole point is, Allah alone knows best, and when you think you’re looking at one thing, you might be looking at something else! We are all children of Adam, and Allah did create us, the many tribes, antions, etc., so that we may know one another. Or did I miss something here! I didn’t realize that we had our own Muslim version of the Aryan nation.
Amir, you said:
“However, I would have thought that multiracial marriages
Hathaway, and your point is what. That white pale skin is obviously more beautiful than dark skin. yeah ok, this is exactly where this type of attitude leads.
Personally I feel sorry for the daughters born into any of these marriages. Especially when turns out to be the spitting image of the black father.
Um Abdullah I also feel sorry for daughters born into black/black marriages because their prospects for marriage don’t look good either
Ginny, I hate that whole all white people are racist. Its really tired. White people do not have a monopoly on racism.
Yusuf what I meant was how they will be treated by their parents. You know I believe most women can find good husbands, what really helps is a supportive and loving family to instill a strong sense of self worth in a woman. There are plenty of women who most think are unattractive in great marriages because they have nice personalities or their family help contract a good marriage on their behalf. If your parents think you are worthless or subpar because you got all the African genes, are they really going to make an effort to help in find a good mate. They will dump you on the first loser who comes along because they dont value you. Thats what I meant. I feel sorry for daughters who have to grow up feeling they are worthless because they were born dark, or fat or homely or whatever superficial label people like to apply to women.
Aneesa,
Great Numbers? Let’s not exaggerate now. a lot of us may be into white women, but I don’t see it being “great numbers”
I feel you Um Abdullah, but what do you make of all the single AA sisters and the large number of those in abusive “marriages”? What should those sisters do that have no family?
I fit in the category many black women despise: College educated and married to a non-black (Asian) woman, three happy biracial kids and a stable home by Allah’s grace. I know the situation for many AA sisters is bad, but I don’t think I should be made to feel guilty for that.
Jazak Allah khair. Now it makes some sense. I suppose that the relatively high incarceration rates for marriage-age AA men has also served to reduce the options for AA women. And, I would imagine, as an AA woman becomes more educated (thus increasing her ‘price’ to available AA men) or becomes a Muslim (thus limiting the supply of available AA men to only Muslims) it is even harder.
Some ways to solve this would be to somehow prevent AA men from marrying non-AA women (or to impose a social cost on men that take such an option), allow those AA men that want to marry AA women to marry more than one, or to increase the supply of non-AA men that would be willing to marry AA women through immigration.
Do you have daughters? I’ve wondered about men who marry interacialy desireing those mixed kids and the kids dont come out that way. I have known so many mixed kids who look plain ole black or asian or whatever. Do you find your child who did not end up being lighter is seen as less than the other siblings, do you treat them differently?
Secondly, the limited marriage choices for AA women is an issue and apart of the problem is that theie undying loyalty to black men at all costs. And actually this is anotehr topic I think there are other issues that make some AA women not attractive to some men for marriage that is beyound skin color issues and their is some validity to some of those preferences. But that is another topic……
Fascinating post bro… I for one did not have a chance to read all the comments, but throwing in my “two cents”, I would state that it is not all that rosy being a “white” convert either. You are still that guy who has no real friends in the Masjid, and still get strange looks while walking down the street with your Arab-hijabi wife, and so on.
This is a serious issue, and it seems many Muslims want to sweep all this under the carpet - often after “sucking us in” with this idea of transcendant fraternity and brotherhood which disregards race and ethnicity.
Um Abdullah I have two sons (16 and 9) and a daughter (7) and all are light skinned (all about the same color) with Asian eyes. My middle son and daughter are a little more Asian looking than my oldest. The only one I treat differently is my little girl and that is because she is a girl.
Are you referring to the neck shaking thing?
Kid Pasta,
Maybe our definition of “great numbers” is different. Almost a third of the brothers at the masjid I attend are married to Moroccans or non-AA women. I consider that “great numbers”.
AA men are the biggest “offenders” when it comes to marrying outside of their race which adds to the difficulty in finding gooding mates for AA women.
Amir, you are not American are you? Why would anyone be forced to marry an AA when we are minorities, only 12% of the population. The Muslim community here is only 2% of the population and that is being generous. Which is why the fact that some communities so many AA men marry non-AA can cause a great deal of problems.
Anyway, its no diffent then what older/divorced women in the Arab world go through. Unfortunately some AA women won’t ever get married, especially if they converted at an older age. That may be their test from Allah, there are women like this and masha Allah its a testiment to their faith for them to remain steadfast on the deen despite the hardships of being without compansioship, may Allah reward them for their patience
No, I’m not from the US.
I’m just trying to understand why, if white and other non-AA women are willing to marry AA men, more AA women are not marrying non-AA or white men? I would have thought that a surplus of AA women would, as a result of the reduced notional price of a good AA woman, have attracted more non-AA and minority men eager to find a better woman than they might have been able to ‘afford’ or attract had they been competing only in the non-AA marriage markets.
Salam, i read a lot of the posts about this issue. Truth be told, i am a black female, i suffered racism from my own people and other races as well. What i wanted to say was that, this whole “i want my kids to look white thing”, didnt exist before colonial time or the westernization of our society. We have been conditioned (whether it is black, asian or arabs) to think that liter is better. This manisfest itself differents ways: Asians wanted to have rounds eyes , using lightnening cream, having surgeries to get taller , Black women wanted to look like barbies with blonde wigs (hello Lil’ Kim and Beyonce anyone/!), Arabs trying to pass off as white, even white people trying to have plum lips, boobs and butts implants.
shaytan really is gaining terrain here, and we are just facilitating the way for him. Because in the end, black or chinese, if we dont get control of our nafs, shaytan surely will. Aint nothing wrong with marrying outside your race or inside of it, just do it for the right reasons.
I, myself find educated tall big black with very dark skin attractive, it aint a racist thing, i just like that swagger that they have!!! lol.
anyway, Ma Salama, may Wa’ Tala guide and keep us on the straight path. Amen.
[...] Tariq Nelson has opened up a can, actually a few cans, of worms and sent them racing across the floor over on his blog. After warning readers to leave their emotional baggage at the door, Tariq writes about African-Americans (AA) marrying other races and some of the motivations for it. For Muslims living outside the United States, the problems faced by AA Muslims don’t get much coverage. [...]
I think alot of what is being discussed here are symptoms.
Causes and cures are not being discussed.
I agree with mamytha that we are letting Shaitan get the best of us.
There seems to be a false loyalty to race that dictates that interracial marriage is some type of sell-out for men. For women there’s the same, yet much more of a stigma seems to be placed on it. And the way American culture is, it seems the last frontier for even nominal acceptance is Blackwomen/Whitemen. Other combinations have been nominally accepted for years.
Women should honestly ask themselves what are the negative connotations that surround them so as to cause men not to marry them or to desire to marry them. Men should ask themselves the same.
Women should honestly ask themselves what are the negative connotations that surround them marrying others so as to cause them not to marry, or to desire to marry, other than their race. Men should ask themselves the same.
Why are concerns of race taking precedence over concerns of basic welfare and a healthy psyche (for you and your children.)?
The Messenger of Allah said:
“It is not befitting for a believer to denigrate himself.”
The people said “How is that?”
He replied “He exposes himself to harm that he can’t bear”
Two of my three children are biracial and although I didn’t marry for this reason I think that it is part of a good strategy for survival. Who wants their children to go through what the little boy Tariq talks about in the fight above went through? Like it or not, light skin has its advantages in the Muslim world and if your children have it, then that is one less obstacle for them
Well in general black women love black men, they love men that are very masculine which usually leads them back to Black men. Men like feminine women, and due to a variety of factors AA women in general are not considered as feminine as other women, particularly white and Asian.
What I was infering to before is that many AA women really dont want to or maybe dont know how to exude that femininity that most men really want. This is a byproduct of the American culture where AA women have had to take on both male and female responsibilities in raising families. Many times they dont know how to defer to their husbands and can sometimes behave in an emasculating way. This is not totally unique to AA women because I have heard this said about American women in general, which is why more and more American men are looking overseas (china, latin America) to find wives. No matter what the Left wants to promote, men are men and want/need to be treated that way.
mashallah hijabi apprentice i agree with you. in the end of the day we are all muslims. and we just need to be grateful to allah and stop letting the shaitan get to us. people are to superficial these days.
Masha Allah good points Um Abdullah
sheryza that SOUNDS beautiful. we are all muslims
Salaam,
I think Um Abdullah hit the nail on the head.
I just wanted to say, black is beautiful and it is sad that people still look as having beautiful dark skinned something to be ashamed of. Its so shallow of a thought. I mean get real people. Believe me though there are still plenty of white woman and men who may not admit it but they love black chocolate brothers, and white men who love dark chocolate excuse my french but dark big bottomed woman, your not fooling anybody!! I personally think people are just jealous of how dark brothers and sisters are gorgeous, some look way better than white, light skinned, or arabs could ever think about looking, cant hold a candle stick to their beauty so they rather put them down instead of letting them realize how beautiful they truely are. Thats my comment. Also post this up on Dar Al Hijrah’s website Tariq it might open up needed discussion in the community. I am glad you have the heart to talk about it.
sexual/cultural preference/attraction is something that we need to take into consideration alongside the obvious din/piety.
Allah created mankind weak; they will always be that way.
We all have to strive to attain certain lofty goals that we hear reiterated in our communities, but at the same time we must be realists.
Allah says what means: “Marry those that are pleasing to you from women…”
The Messenger of Allah said “A woman is married for four reasons: beauty, wealth, status, and Din; Choose the one with Din and you’ll be successful.”
This sentiment, attraction and preference, is known even in classical Islamic literature.
When a man looks for a wife, he is recommended to ask about her beauty 1st, then if this satisfies him ask about her Din.
WHY?
Because if he rejects her for looks, no one can blame him.
But if he asked about her Din found it strong, then didn’t like the way she looks, then rejects her, he will definitely be blameworthy.
So the hadith is then saying “look for a pious woman + other attributes. Don’t marry ONLY for one of the other three.”
Of course people will say “But he should have been happy with her Din and that is enough”
Yes, and when he divorces her a few years later because he cant stand to be with her, or starts cheating on her, or sinks into the sinfulness of porn, etc. The same people that advised him to take the sister with din and not consider other factors that make a successful marriage will wash their hands from him and say “I knew he was a bad brother”
These other considerations are included in other hadith, like that of Asma bint Qays when she asked the Messenger about two men that proposed to her the Prophet told her about them “As for so-and-so then he is a loafer with no money. And as for so-and-so then he is a woman-beater.”
How many sisters are willing to look past his wife-beating and take him because she “…should have been happy with his Din and that is enough”???
ABU ABDULLAH
people like you disgust me. you are a coward and weak in your belief. what would be yout teaching your children if they were in the same position as that boy? Probably to go and lighten themselves up for fearing OBSTACLES.
Brother Hood, excellent advice. I wish we could get more brothers and sisters to talk like this to amongst each other. I know we seem to be picking on the men, I was thinking how many women marry for money or green card and don’t care about the deen, just like many men marry for beauty and dont really care about character or deen. I often wonder if people consider the reprecussions of their marriage choices on their children, looking at some marriages I really think people dont care at all about their children.
Hood is right. People need to be realistic with themselves when getting married. I know a brother that did not like overweight sisters, but married one anyway only to divorce her in the end.
Tariq said: “I know a brother that did not like overweight sisters, but married one anyway only to divorce her in the end. ”
Are you talking about me and my ex-husband?
Brother Hood,
Thank you for that reminder. Your right we tend to think that being content with only being muslim and marrying for the deen should be are only goal and that it should be enough for us, but that was not what I was referring to. You should be able to look at your spouse and be happy with the way he or she looks, he or she should be pleasing on your eyes. I agree, but i was focusing more on people should be able to marry whoever they want regardless of color. That is a choice that that person is entitled to make and no one should question that. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and when you choose a spouse it should be someone that you can live with.
Umm abdullah your right people don’t care about their children. People are too selfish these days to think about the consequence from their decisions and the affect it might have on their families. When something goes wrong in their life whether it’s a bad decision or some type of sin they blame everyone but themselves.
Umm Abdullah when you said:
“I often wonder if people consider the reprecussions of their marriage choices on their children, looking at some marriages I really think people dont care at all about their children.”
I read somewhere that the reasons why we have so much divorce and immoral behavior(cheating, porn, etc) amongst spouses was because we tend to want the what’s best for “me” attitude. Like for instance when a man and woman divorce and they have children involved,instead of staying where they can both be by the children(like in the same city) and raise them together they (which will make their children less apt to feel insecure about themselves and feel less like they were the cause of the divorce(sorry hope i make sense there) instead they go off and get married again and worry about their happiness and how they can sttart a new life and not worry and take responsiblity for the children they created with each other. Children fall victim to a lot of their parents selfish behavior. But after all it’s all about them isn’t it?
We all make mistakes and some of us go through a very long period of total complete loss. It’s just up to the individual to realize that there are consequence for our actions and our decisions we make and we must turn to Allah for guidance.
As-salaamu ‘alaikum,
Bismillah ar-rahman ir-rahim…
Tariq and Co. I would like to say firstly that this is an intersting conversation. I also would like to raise some debatable points. One of which is concerning the overall question, whether being black is distasteful. The evidence suggests that it is, however it may not be for the reasons Tariq is arguing.
For example the claim is that being black is distasteful for its inherent qualities color and features, but I would like say that being black is distasteful not for skin color and features so much today. On the contrary it is distasteful because of the inherent association and social stigmas at least here in the US.
In addition I would like to respond to the following statment,
Obviously the available and favorable demographics for a spouse change upon the acquisition of wealth and or education. Since black and latinos make up the poorest group it is safe to say that once the acquisition of wealth and/or education occur the opportunity for marriage of persons from the same social class exist therefore increasing the chance of marrying a non-black or latino.
What are your souces for these numbers?
Abu Sahajj:
If you click on the links, you will see my sources.
Certainly it is their right and I was not questioning that. I was only presenting it as I see it and putting it out there. Your last paragraph is exactly what the entire argument for ‘opting out’ (if one wants to call it that) is
As stated a few times in the comments above, racism is extremely ugly in the Muslim world and this is the way many are trying to save their children from it.
One may or may not agree with it, but I agree that I can not condemn them for making their individual choice as long as, as Hood stated they are marrying someone with sound religion.
This topic has been hot for the very good reason that it (”opting out”) is pretty common and is because racism is so pervasive amongst the Muslims. I not only see it NOT changing, but becoming more common
Wow - what a post.
I don’t live in America (I’m Australian with an Irish husband) but I have friends and relatives in mixed-race marriages. My brother-in-law who is Irish and white is engaged to a woman who is English and black; a close Muslim friend who is Australian and mixed Arab-Australian (looks very white) is married to a Muslim man who is Nigerian and very dark-skinned black. Another Muslim male friend of mine who is Australian and white is married to a Muslim woman who is Ethiopian and black. And I have a smattering of other friends who are all sorts of mixes (Arab man / Anglo woman; Anglo man / Sri-Lankan woman; Anglo man / Chinese-Malaysian woman etc.) so I have a familiarity with mixed-race couples and their children.
My question is more to do with the implications for the ‘white’ party of the marriage. Are they likewise choosing for their children to opt-out of being white? Particularly for my friends and relatives who have married partners that are very black? I am not sure whether the dynamics translate across countries and cultures. Having said that, I know there is racism because two of my friends who married Anglo men, complained that when they travelled to Muslim countries, people assumed they were the servants!!! Plus, being a white convert I know (and hate) the fascination with Anglos that exists in the Muslim world - kinda like you are valued for your race but denigrated because you are a convert.
Soooo… what is the answer? Well, being a big believer in equality of results, perhaps we need to aggressively assert valuing the black history of Islam? Not just pay lip-service to the fact that Bilal, radi Allahu anhu, was black, but promote the great scholars and civilisations in Islamic history that were African or African-inspired? Get black Islamic history out there into the Muslim community. Besides, I wonder how much of the problem in places like Saudi - is a colonialist inferiority complex?
As salaamu alaikum,
I just think the whole idea is illogical. As a person who has actively dealt with African Americans on the daily basis, and have met all kinds, there is nothing that will guarantee that your children will be lighter. No guarantee. Similarly, there is no guarantee that two people of dark skin will not produce a lighter skinned child. I don’t even need to prove this as there are far too many examples out there.
What if a mixed couple decided to marry, and they have one dark child, and one light child? How do you comfort them? How do you comfort the light one with the kinky hair, and the dark one with the straight hair? How would this be assisting them in the Muslim world? What if the effect comes out in your grandchildren?
see: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1813509
pics here:http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_and_white_twins.htm
[...] Tariq Nelson presents The New “Passing” posted at Tariq Nelson. [...]
Um Abdullah,your theory is all wrong. AA women stick to AA men because, well, non-Black Muslim men tend to be scary, overly chauvanistic, and tend to rely on their own cultural values rather than Islamic values. Unlike AA men and non-AA Muslim women, AA women tend to marry brothers based on deen and character rather than for convenience.
AA women less feminine? I know very few AA women married to AA brothers who are stay-at home moms. AA brothers are horrible at providing for their families. When they do, they act as if this requirement is some sort of accomplishment. So we usually have to pick up the slack — we would love to submit and be pretty and make babies, but AA men treat us like shoes — wear us down and then go find new ones (non-AA sisters). We are percieved as less feminine because we are not valued by our men. Very rarely do AA men go out of their way to honor AA women. So if you dont value us, do you really expect non-AA men to do so?
BTW -I’m an extremely feminine, submissive and attractive AA Muslim woman– and both my parents are Black.
Those are generalizations but with alot of truth to them. I agree that many AA men are not raised to be providers, but I also notice that AA women pick up the slack instead of pushing them to do what they are supposed to do. Also there is a way to encourage a man, where you don’t berate him, you treat him with respect and you encourage him to acheive better. I’m not saying the men are blameless but the women have to admit they are a part of some of the problems. I just notice some things about myself and women you see in the community for example, looking down on serving your husband, on housework, on really anything domestic, not holding your tongue when upset, not encouraging your husband instead of always bringing up whats negative, lastly not being patient with where he is financially and spiritually. I have seen on more than one occasion brothers who AA women wouldnt marry (maybe not making alot of money at the time etc), end up marrying non-AA and those brothers are successful and good husbands and fathers because their wives were supportive of them, and almost none of the wives worked. Sometimes I think the boring (just doing the five pillars, not wearing thobes trying to be a “sheik”, not trying to be a thug, quiet personality, etc) brothers just get ignored by many AA women, then they want to complain when they marry non-AA.
BTW, I’m AA myself and married to an AA brother so I’m just being self critical and admitting that we women have to improve also.
One more thing, as women we have to value ourselves first. Alot of women get taken advantage of because they have really low standards or the wrong standards.
bismillah,
i doubt i will have the last say on this continuing thread… but lets not forget that,
Abdullah ibn Masud, said: “the Prophet (saw) said ‘Islam began as something strange, and it will revert to being strange as it was in the beginning, so good tidings for the strangers.’ Some asked, ‘Who are the strangers?’ He said, ‘The ones who break away from their people (literally, ‘tribes’) for the sake of Islam.’” (Sahih Muslim, Ibn Majah)
I’m not qualified to provide commentary on the hadith but it seems very clearly in it that racial/ethnic groups will always exist, even amongst Muslims, but our objective is not just to be Muslims but to strive to be Mutaqeen.
I admit that going through whatever form of small racism and alienation I faced in NYC impacted my intellectual development and prespective in a positive way… I guess the way I see it in retrospect is that racism is like disease… the only way to become immune to it is to inoculate yourself with it - meaning, expose yourself to a weakened small version of experiancing racism so you may overcome it and become strengthend by it… too much exposure will poison your mind/soul/emotions but a little that you can handle will help grow (at least this was the case with me)
It seems that ‘TSRP’ might be trying to do something like this to slowly raise his children to become aware of racism but at the same time be strong enough to face it when they are exposed to it.
those are my two cents, and Allah knows best.
Um Abdullah, I think sisters who are not domestic fear being taken advantage of. I know too many AA sisters who have tried supporting their “students of knowledge” and have grown to resent them because she ends up handling both male and female responsibilities. The ones married to non-AA brothers don’t seem to have this problem. The non-AA brothers that have courted me understand that they will be the chief provider in the household and offered me permission to work. The AA brothers have asked me to bring my income into the marriage or else.
You can’t make a man support his family and do right by his wife…I suggest all single AA sisters find non-AA brothers with no cultural baggage…the AA brothers clearly dont care…
Thats what I meant by having standards. If women would stop marrying men who don’t work, then they would get the point and go out and get a job. Before when I mentioned men who are struggling that was with the understanding that he had a good work ethic. Maybe he is just starting out in his career but is willing to work two jobs to support the family.
There are good AA men out there but there are also some bad ones. The problem is the bad ones are so bad that they complely overshadow the good brothers.
Noor, I am an AA and I have to agree with your suggestion. So many good AA sisters have been ruined by these ‘brothers’. They come into the marriage enthusiatic and leave it traumatized possibly for the rest of her life
I’m going to honest. When I think about it, in the past, I have played up my “otherness” when I’ve been in largely immigrant communities. Either I’ve done that or distanced myself from “the other” Black people. Why? Because I wanted to accepted and I realized they saw Black people (in general) as flawed, criminal, irresponsible etc. Instead of challenging them on their stereotypes I fed right into. It’s very embarassing to admit.
Alhamdulillah, I’ve grown out of that and stand proudly as the Jamerican Muslimah I am. And the more I think about it, and the more honest I am with myself, I have to admit I married an Arab man- PARTLY- because I saw it as giving more status and prominence in the commmunity I was in. (And I have been accepted). As someone mentioned, I also wanted to increase my options for marriage so I opened myself to the possibility of marrying across cultures. However, I’m at a different place now and am reconsidering my choice. I miss Black men very much… It’s sad but when I look at the other Black sisters who married Arab men in my community I realize most of them have taken to passing in whatever way they can.
Lastly, I’ve had it with the community I’m in and all of the racist encounters. I’m tired of arguing with people people and calling them on their racism. I’m heading over to the WDM influenced masjid…
Um Abdullah, please note that the numbers for black/black and black/non-black marriages mentioed in the original post are for marriages that took place in 1990 only, not the total number of such marriages in existence.
We should also note that the data sources cited in the original post indicate that as SES increases, the likelihood of interracial marriage increases for all racial groups, not just minorities.
Salaams Tariq and everyone else,
An interesting and thought-provoking post. Racism is one of the most pernicious evils of human nature. It hurts both the abused and in a more subtle and damaging way, the racist. Moreover, considering that none of us chose the colour of our own skin, it seems doubly wrong. How could you be angry at someone for their skin colour? It’s like being angry at someone for the colour of their eyes.
I’m aware of the racism in the global Muslim community. Indeed, in strange ways, I’ve encountered some of it myself. I’m a white Englishman and being a convert, I’ve had a range of responses from other Muslims. The first is the ‘you’re a convert, you’re sooooo pious, you must be a pir’. This merely massages the ego (Ya Allah! Rescue me from my nafs). The second is: ‘you’re a convert, you’re an alien interloper in ‘our’ Islam’. This hostility is wrong and destructive of the bonds of our community.
I’m married to a woman of Pakistani/Indian heritage. We have children and we’ve often been stopped by others from the wider Asian community: ‘O your children! Ma sha Allah, kitne piari hai (my Urdu’s a bit weak)! How beautiful they are! (Which they are, al hamdu lillah) How fair they are! O what beautiful blue eyes they have! (al hamdu liilahi ala kulli hal).’ Whilst unintentional, it merely serves to underline prejudice.
Subhan Allah! I’m so tired of racism.
May Allah guide us all and may He show us the Truth: we are made from the earth’s dust and how can one type of dust claim superiority over another?
Ma’as salama,
Abdur Rahman
Which raises a point that my wife always asks… although she and I disagree on certain terms… I will ask and play ’shaitan’s advocate’: What is better to marry a good person who is not a Muslim or a Muslim who is a deviant.
Abu Sahajj:
A few points on what you mentioned:
- I never said that it was the majority, remember that I mentioned that this is more prevalent amongst the higher SES individuals. The lower SES individuals marry black in much higher numbers.
- This is not something that alot of people will admit to. Even to themselves
- They will not react very kindly to this question from a non-black. (It is the “exposing the dirty laundry effect) Anecdotally, I have gotten no outrage to the question and admissions of it happening with others, stories and even personal admissions
I would suggest that you ask those who primarily attend immigrant dominated masjids
Salaams,
Thank You Tariq Nelson for this thread.
We as a people have unfinished business.
We as AA Muslims have definiely gone backwards in so many ways the
more we have mixed with immigrant communities.
Brother, the answer is not to try and breed our melanin out as we would
clearly be breeding our children into a phenotype that obviously has a
cultural predisposition for the taghut of low level melanin asabiyah .
This is a shirk and a deviance as bad as noi, which is why Allah is
punishing them around the world.
We define ourselves as black only out of a reaction and rejection to their
godless secular whiteness.
This whiteness is an ideological foundation of the west which is anti-
tawheed, many immigrant and uncle tom muslims aspire to whiteness
which has made them ipso-factor susceptible to western defeat.
They may call themselves muslims but can we say they truly worship one
god when whiteness is such an obvious idol to them.
Allah loves not the idolaters and his barakah is far from them.
Do you think such a people are capable of the type of spiritual purification
that would make them worthy of being in Imam Mahdi’s army ?
Do you think such a people are humble enough to follow Isa A.S. when he
returns if he happens to look more like Kanye West than Brad Pitt.
If not what success will they have in this world or the next and why are
we wasting our time with them.
Enjoin what is good and leave what is bad.
Our fitrah has allowed us to recognise tawheed and Allah has given us the
gift of hidayat.
Time to break free from this filth and help purify our own communities.
What would Malcolm do ?
They only liked him in Arabia because he was a redbone anywayz !
May Allah bless Warith Deen Muhammad and raise his rank.
May Allah give Louis Farakhan hidayat before he dies.
Let us be a torchlight and a witness to the dignifying qualities of true
tawheed.
Such a torchlight that he would be attracted to true islam. (those that talk
about the psycological effects of mixing with the immigrant communities
better recognise that us Sunnis have not produced any one as dynamic as
Farrakhan, or Khalid Muhammad and do you really think that arabs would
have ever cultivated a Malik Shabazz Omowale, don’t make me laugh. And
do not even dare mention Zaid Shakir.) We as a people have bigger fish
to fry, the world awaits our viceregency and Mother earth wants her
children to return home.
Salaams.
[...] There’s a discussion going on at Tariq Nelson’s house about interracial marriage among American muslims. It’s a very interesting read and a great demonstration of the value of websites like this, where people can have a level conversation in public about such a topic that would otherwise be hushed or behind closed doors. The original argument was about black muslims marrying non-black muslims with an intention to have children who can pass out of blackness more easily. That’s a hot topic and you should really hop over there - the discussion will surprise you. [...]
Salam Thanks for this article. I’m a white convert who married / divorced an Egyptian. My kids can “pass” as white because surprisingly my genes came out in both of them. But they don’t want to because they are proud. We just moved back to the US and my son had a fight on line with some white supremacist who was mad at him for commenting on a black guy’s page (all of these kids have their pix up and my son looks very white) he said “I am a minority too!” and the supremacist was like “well you look white!” I hope they will keep that pride in who they really are and not start to actually try to hide it and “pass” for whitebread American instead of proud Egyptian Muslim American.
Yeah a lot of Arab and other immigrant communities of Muslims are real racist against AA’s and into “lightness” (in Egypt the best selling cosmetic is face whitening cream “Fair & Lovely”) but that is so messed up. Where is the Taqwa and why is everyone trying to look like white people. Look at how the world is so screwed up mostly because of us. Why would anyone want to imitate such destructive people. Sobhan’Allah. In Egypt it used to make me feel like crying when Egyptians would say “you look like the moon” because I am white and wear the hijab or say “beautiful” meaning “fair” and stuff like that. And I met so many AA sisters who were traveling there and they got all kinds of nasty remarks. It’s just wrong. The born muslims have a lot of maturing to do before they should go around telling converts what we are doing right and wrong. Tehy have SERIOUS ISSUES.
I had the pleasure of visiting Imam WD Mohammed
Salaam Ahki,
I come to Islam and love Islam because of the very fact that it is the TRUTH. I this instance I thank you for speaking the truth. I have no problem saying that I feel that in the trouble times we live in here as Muslims collectively remain due to the arrogance of others who fail to look at our experience as Black and our unique understanding of the wicked people that enslaved us and terrorized us. Those that think with that narrowness have bought into the stereotype and base their comprehension of us by the 1.5 Black person they know. In reality I want to be a better Muslim each day a grow stronger but it need not be accomplished by losing myself in another’s culture, sadly with sincere intent and in pursuit of the straight way lose identity and become a clone of culture. For instance , my Arabic is not nearly as good as I would like, but I am from place where “country grammer” is a reality. Now I can hear someone trying to sound like something other than themself and they grew up speaking just like me in the same neighborhood. Now brother has an accent when he speaks english ????Anyway we must recall that once any of Allah creatures begin to think or act as if they are better due to hue/color , status or what ever, the it mirrors the ayat that shows that the devil considered himself better due to what he was made from (fire) . All are made by Allah. None is better except those that Allah in the end says are better. Once a brother told me that he would not refer to me as Black but as an AfroAmerican because Black was a negative word. Well I aint from two countries, I am a kidnapped African striving to be a better Muslim. I love being Black I love being a Muslim.
Salaam Ahki,
I come to Islam and love Islam because of the very fact that it is the TRUTH. I this instance I thank you for speaking the truth. I have no problem saying that I feel that in the trouble times we live in here as Muslims collectively remain due to the arrogance of others who fail to look at our experience as Black and our unique understanding of the wicked people that enslaved us and terrorized us. Those that think with that narrowness have bought into the stereotype and base their comprehension of us by the 1.5 Black person they know. In reality I want to be a better Muslim each day a grow stronger but it need not be accomplished by losing myself in an other’s culture, sadly with sincere intent and in pursuit of the straight way lose identity and become a clone of culture. For instance , my Arabic is not nearly as good as I would like, but I am from place where “country grammar” is a reality. Now I can hear someone trying to sound like something other than them self and they grew up speaking just like me in the same neighborhood. Now brother has an accent when he speaks English ????Anyway we must recall that once any of Allah creatures begin to think or act as if they are better due to hue/color , status or what ever, the it mirrors the ayat that shows that the devil considered himself better due to what he was made from (fire) . All are made by Allah. None is better except those that Allah in the end says are better. Once a brother told me that he would not refer to me as Black but as an Afro-American because Black was a negative word. Well I ain’t from two countries, I am a kidnapped African striving to be a better Muslim. I love being Black I love being a Muslim.
The Unknown Islam in America
Now that Islam has become a topic of discussion in nearly every home in America it might prove useful to discuss how Islam arrived in the Amreicas. Some of the details concerning Islam and its arrival to the Americas may surprise even Muslims living in…
Whoa.
Jmmm. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around th gender issues in islam please let me stay in denial about the color thing. I immediately called hubby at work to be sure he didn’t have in “color struck” folks in his family that I needed to worry about. He laughed at me cause we’ve had this conversation several times before.
Numbers like that don’t lie. Phew. It’s amazing, and heartbreaking, how in the most important ways *nothing* really has changed. The old racial hierarchy remains, but now hides its true essence with selective and varying embrace of other less threatening races and ethnicities. It also makes Benneton-style optimism all the more nauseating.
I blogged about a related issue (namely how employers have been shown to hire unqualified light skinned men over far more professionally desirable dark skinned Black men).
http://akramsrazor.typepad.com/islam_america/2006/12/shades_of_racis.html
Apologies if this has already been mentioned in the previous 143 comments, but are you familiar with Eduardo Bonilla-Silva’s idea of a move from a biracial system of racial classification to a triracial one, where whites are at the top, blacks are at the bottom, along with some other groups (termed “honorary blacks” or something like that by him) such as indigenous people and Hmongs, and everyone else is in the middle, with some groups allowed entry into the top white group through economic mobility, education, interracial/ethnic coupling, etc. I thought of his essay while reading this post.
i agreee with your analysis of the situation. I get real tired of Muslims saying there is no racism in Islam, and with typical Arab racism in general.
As we move into a black/non-black dichotomy we may temporarily move into this “triracial system” but I think blacks will still be on the bottom with Asians, Latinos, and other mixed race individuals in the middle and whites on the top.
In fact…we may already be at this “triracial system”
It is that racial hierarchy that I fear for Muslims. Muslims will participate and buy into it as they have been doing, and it will continue to divide us.
The Arabs have a story of three bulls. A black-furred bull, a brown-furred bull, and a white-furred bull. The woods in which they lived also had a white tiger in it that would attempt to eat one of them every so often. But every time it attacked one, it would call for the others and the three bulls would drive it off. After one incident of this, the tiger changed his tactics. He approached the white and brown bulls while the black bull was a bit further away grazing, and he told them, “You know, the Black Bull is black and dirty and evil. Why do you keep him with you? His is a disgrace to you. You are beautiful and noble. If the Black Bull is no longer there, you will have all
the grazing to yourself. He takes away your food and adds no value
to you.”
The two bulls listened to the tiger’s spiel and
said, “Well, you know, he is our brother. What can we do?”
“You need not do anything at all,” said the tiger. “I am your friend. I will do what needs to be done. Just don’t come to the aid of the Black Bull when he calls you.” The others agreed.
The next day, they heard the voice of the Black Bull calling for help in anguish and fear. They listened to him and went back to their grazing. Gradually the calls stopped. The two brothers could not look each other in the eye but then, nice green grass wipes away memories and after a little while it was as if the Black Bull never existed.
Then one day the tiger came to the White Bull when he was alone and said, “So are you happy with the advise I gave you? Didn’t I advise you well? Now here is another advise. You are the real king of the forest. You are White and clean and pure and holy and beautiful. You are wise and good. You deserve to live in solitary splendor like a
king. Not with some dirty brown trash who you have to share your food with. Why do you need him? He is a liability and an embarrassment to you.”
“Well, what should I do?”
“You know the score. Nothing at all. I am there to take care of everything for you. Just relax.”
Next day, the White Bull heard the dying screams of the Brown Bull and closed his ears and went back to his grazing.
The White Bull lived for a few days all by himself, grazing where he wanted and drinking from the clean streams of the forest. Then one morning the tiger came again. From the look in his eyes, the White Bull knew that this visit was different. All his life flashed before his eyes. He recalled the time when the three brothers stood together, shoulder to shoulder. Then he recalled all the incidents since then. As the tiger sat before him, not in any hurry, knowing that the result was pre-determined, the White Bull said to him, “I have one last wish. Will you grant it to me?”
“Anything at all my friend”, said the tiger.
The White Bull then climbed a hill and when he got to the top of it, he called out to the people of the forest, “O! People, I do not die today. I died the day the Black Bull died.”
Ironically, it’s an Arabic story. And yet it accuses all of humanity of the same thing down to the detail, preferring evryone else over Blacks and preferring whites over everyone else. Nothing tempts me to be a danger to other Muslims like our own racial bias and one other fault of ours. What if one African nation had attempted to rob Iraq of its oil? What if one African nation tried to colonize Pakistan? What would the response of Muslims worldwide have been against Blacks, even those who are Muslims? One’s honest answer to himself is a true indication of this.
Peace folks…
Should we not be using the term race, as there is only one, human. The whole skin color problem certainly isn’t limited to Muslims (note i do not say Islam, as Islam has no place for this crud). That said, it is a horrid shame that folks are allowing this to continue or worse, seeing it and falling victim to “if you can’t beat them, join them”.
As far as ethnicity in the world goes some interesting viewpoints on ethnic classification:
(To me) “Arab” is not an ethnicity as much as it is a culture. Arab folk run the gamut in terms of skin color from my experiences. There is the same silly stratification there as well. Take the “arab” leaders of Sudan and drop them in SE DC and I’ll bet not one person would think they didn’t belong…
Take Ebony mag, there is an article on AA baseball players. Never have they listed Black Latino players (at least when i last saw it) . Is the def for AA such that you can’t have any ancestry from Central/South America?? Is this the same type of practice facing Muslims today? Does the old “race laws” of the south of the US still rule ethnic classifications for folk? What makes one AA? Is being a descendant of slaves in the Americas the dominant factor? Would second generation African immigrants to the US be considered AA?
Some disjointed thoughts perhaps, however this is beyond a fascinating topic, wish I had gotten into it much sooner. As a person of quite a few mixed up folks, this topic speaks to me not just from the religious aspects, also on the non religious social aspect. We must be careful with the way we define ourselves and not define ourselves on how others view/accept us. You can;t please everyones ethnic meter so why bother and if you are a Muslim, you should already know that is wrong anyway…
Assalaamu alaikum,
Subhanallah
I agree with Ann. Actually, I get NO love from the African Saudis here. They pretty much ignore my family. However, the Arab Saudis embrace us.
Brother Tariq being that I am of Pakistani origin and totally agree that there is tribalism and racism amongst Muslims. I honestly believe that a change is coming and it will take a generation to change the influence of imperialism that has haunted the older Muslim generation. I agree 100% that most Islamic Centers in the USA are running the African American Muslims out of the masjids. The events of American History has left a deep scar on this society. Unfortunately MOST immigrant communities (Pakistanis, Indians, Africans, Middle Eastern) - like myself - came over here to this country seeking rivers of “milk” and “honey”. We came to study, make money, establish businesses (with no concern whether they are halal or haraam); as long as we made money we were happy. But this foolishness didn’t last too long and soon our people started marrying local American girls and having babies. It soon dawned upon us that Gosh, I better start praying and do something about my religion now that my kids are growing. So, the doctors, engineers and gas station owners selling liquor and pornography ended up starting mosques. To begin with there was never the sincerity to establish the deen or to bring Islam to the people. Racism was at the heart when these immigrant muslim engineers were going to work in downtown looking down upon the largely poor african american communities. Not knowing that the very downtown they were working in was largely built on illegally stealing the lands of African Americans. Anyway, I can go on and on about this painful issue but I would like to conclude with this story of our Beloved Prophet (sallaho alayhi wa sallam). One time Abu Zar (R) ran into Bilal (R) in a street of Madinah and Abu Zar (R) made racist remarks like “you black slave, from a black women”….these remarks were picked up by another companion who reported this incidence to rasoolulah (sallahu alayhi wa sallam). After the prayer that evening, the messenger of Allah (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) showed signs of great anger to the extent that everyone could see the vein on his forehead and he called Abu Zar (R) and said to him (more or less) that Abu Zar, your ignorance hasn’t left you and that do you want to die ignorant? Abu Zar (r) got up came in front of the prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) placed his cheek on the ground and requested that Bilal (r) step on his other cheek with is feet. To the contrary Bilal (R) picked him up and forgave him. So it will take a generation to change this ignorance and arrogance! May Allah save us all from the difficulty of the last day and give us the reality of imaan to be sincere Muslims with a heart that is pure and without color except the color of taqwa!!!
You need to get down with the Salafiyyun. Most of the Salafis in the west and are black. as are the majority of our leaders (Bilal Philips, Abu Usamah, etc.)
To say that one sees the black man as criminal is odd. It is an North American persuasive tool that aids in subjugation and it seems to be working. B4 God, there is no colour and other stuff! Watch your nafs!
Who started World War I, World War II, bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, instituted slavery, owned Africa and yuh blaming the black man as criminal
Trying to be objective here. The man who started the stuff is getting away ’scot free’ and he is smwlling sweet like he does and no one is none the wiser!
Capitalistic tools are working well!
Alex Wek is beautiful. If I see ugliness, it comes from within myself!
Um I am a AA Muslim. As I was reading most of the comments here I could not help but think of the Prophet’s last sermon. Interesting that no one here referred to it and it seems that most of you have found some sorry way to justify blatant racism. The only truth that exists in this topic is MAN-MADE. So although many of you praise Tariq for telling it like it is you just confirm that you worship a man-made truth …
All of this skin-color manipulation and prettying up of hatred towards another one of Allah’s Creatures is haram. Point-black. Shama Noor’s statement was classically racist. Most racist thought is based on the idea of preserving some type of “purity” of color . Sorry Shama you play into it whether you admit to it or not. If you didn’t think it was racist why put the disclaimer ( I don’t want to come off as racist…)
As we are creatures of potential there is no inherent capacity for learning Arabic and Islam in the lighter-skinned. My dark-skinner father is quite fluent. So are my brothers and sisters from Somalia and Sudan and even Yemen. Shaitan works in mystery ways from the back, front, side and even from within. Why we don’t call it what it is …is beyond me. I am not saying that we should not discuss this but it is interesting that no one here proposed ways to change it. No one said maybe I should make dua about my racist sentiments. Instead everyone ran into very comfortable corners. “I’ll stay with my kind or hey, that’s how it is!” I find it kind of pathetic. Allahu Alam.
Let’s look at a few things; a) it is not permissible for Muslims to be in the West and b)we can not take Western culture with us to the land of the Muslims and must adapt to the culture of the land in which we made hijrah. That being the case, then it is best to leave behind our culture and try our best to adopt the new culture and way of doing things. One of the problems of American Muslims that make hijrah is that they expect everyone to follow their culture when it should be the other way around and call this ‘racism’.
Now there is a call for there to be “American culture” in the American Masjids. This is a testimony to the times of fitnah that we live in
Salafee Method,
The problem with your ideas is that you conflate certain cultures with the most appropriate way to be a Muslim. Yes, Western Muslims should not be imperialist to non-Western Muslims. But as a Muslim if someone is practicing racism you should speak to the right. Secondly if someone is oppressive , in the land of the Muslims, we should speak out.
As I am not sure where you base your ideas that Muslims are not permitted in the West I will only assert my belief that it is a mercy from Allah (SWT) that Islam is in America. Masha’Allah we are all communicating on this page in English. It is not a language that is better than any other language but we are are able to communicate and reach people.
Allahu alam.
It’s a shame that the discussion of a long overdue topic like this must begin with a disclaimer. A story of Arab style racism. The first, my wife saw on a tv commercial in which a ‘visibly arab’ woman entered a store or what ever where there was a group of men who payed her no mind. She became saddened by her inability to arouse any interest in these men and so went home and used some of the whitened soap sold in most of the stores in Saudi. In the next scene, the whiter version of the same women appears in front of a group of men who all react positively to her to which she is visibly pleases. As a white man it was assumed by some that I would marry a white woman, while another AA brother actually said something along the lines of: “Let’s who he marries- if he’s a brother brother - meaning marrying an AA sister or not.”
Racism exists everywhere. In a lot of Arab countries they consider themselves second class to white Europeans. Duh?
But not all Arabs are like that and there are worse countries than others. For example Syria and maybe all of Sham has that problem worse and then I would say the rich Gulf states esp the smaller ones.
Maybe it has a connected to being colonized or being humiliated that you see them (European/whites) as better and thus you try to emulate them. This can also be seen in Pakistan and India and other countries that the West has beaten down, example: Vietnam where cosmetic surgery to westernize you features is taking trend. Also the trend of trying to look less black is occurring within the black community outside Islam.
Another thing the sign of wanting to look white it is not always a sign of racism but a twisted view of beauty! They think beauty is found in being white; white has always been regarded as beautiful within Arabs. Even unhealthily looking paleness is attractive.
But don
[...] Last night’s walima was for a mixed heritage cousin from the same family. Marrying a white (that’s what they call them not me) Saudi. The venue and guest were very different than the previous. The hall was very elegant and posh. The guest were mostly mixed heritage and white. The women’s dresses and makeup were tasteful, they appeared healthier and in better shape. The black cousins from the previous walima were there. They self segregated themselves and took wall seats and remained fully veiled the entire night. I could not help to make this observation, because the night before they were flaunting their tackiness. It was obvious that they
[...] you still deny it? For those that denied that “The New Passing” exists, check out this [...]
I think that we are seeing what you are talking about here in popular culture as well as we see the video girls are getting more racially ambiguous even with black videos
[url=http://www.diigo.com/user/mrcrasher/hud]hud[/url]
http://www.diigo.com/user/mrcrasher/hud hud
[url=http://www.netvouz.com/mrcrasher/tag/mortgage]mortgage[/url]
http://www.netvouz.com/mrcrasher/tag/mortgage mortgage
[url=http://del.icio.us/mrcrasher/mortgage]mortgage[/url]
http://del.icio.us/mrcrasher/mortgage mortgage
[url=http://www.excites.com/bookmarks/mrcrasher/?tag=estate]estate[/url]
http://www.excites.com/bookmarks/mrcrasher/?tag=estate estate
[url=http://www.diigo.com/user/mrcrasher/mortgage]mortgage[/url]
http://www.diigo.com/user/mrcrasher/mortgage mortgage
Hello
Very interesting information! Thanks!
Bye
Salaams, I TRULY HATE, the fact that racism exists. My 5 yr old son has already encountered “blackism” at school (islamic school). He already wants to be whiter, and he’s only 5!
I try to point out the beauty of black skin, its smooth, hides blemishes, the sun won’t damage your skin, that black skin ages better ; that gold jewellry looks especially stunning on the blacker skin of his counsins, aunt and grandmother. I feel that the only way to beat racism, is for blacks to be proud of their skin colour, whether they be black african, black indian, or black melanesian. I want to raise my children, (who are darker than me) to be confident in themselves, and I especially don’t want my kids marrying for the sake of lightening their offspring. I married darker than myself, and I certainly don’t care which colour my children marry, and we all need to remember that Allah (SWT) made us all.
I have witnessed racism from Muslim Arabs and Indians, and it makes me so angry. I hope the world will change its attitude toward black skin InshaAllah.
BlueKat,
Our beautiful black skin can be damaged by the sun as well, although we more protection due to higher levels of melanin. Also, blacks are NOT exempt from skin cancer, so we must protect our skin as well.
Really, you think gold looks good on us? I guess it depends on the shade, it tends to blend in with my skin so I prefer silver or white gold.
The only way to beat racism is to fear Allah. Yes, we should be proud of our wonderful heritage, but it shouldn’t go to the extreme where we feel we are better than everyone else….after all we are all descendant of Adam and Eve…. every last one of us came from DIRT!
Fred, I’m glad the video hoes are now racially ambiguous, as Kanye said, if it weren’t for mulattoes there’d be no video hoes… this is fantastic news for brown skin women…. LOL
http://www.siampower.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2736
As Salaam Alaikum,
Absolutely disgusting, I must admit after what I just read. Are we Muslims or are we not! What would the Prophet (saw) say about all this madness. I thought (maybe I never truly read the Quran) but did not Allah (swt) say that it is our diversity that makes us great and bears witness to Him! Astaghfirullah! May Allah (swt) purify your hearts and guide you to Him. How dreadful a day it is when we decide that it is our skin color that defines our marriageability or “quality”. I must admit, to read this during Ramadan, it’s truly disheartening.
The former Crown Prince of Kuwait - is a running joke - everyone knew he would not get the Crown.
Salaam
Brother Tariq, I must admit I am…not sure what the feeling is. I like your posts and I thought all your efforts were to carry high the banner of equality in Islam however now that I know a little more about your background I wonder what your intention is. Are you trying to make up for the fact that you fell victim to the racism of Muslims? How can you let the actions of Muslims who are not IMPLEMENTING the Quran and Sunnah dictate your lifes choices? Even if you are outraged at this epidemic which to me is a lack of true Islam point blank, why do you paint such a dismal portrait for AA sisters? You constantly talk about how nobody wants them, and the truth comes to light you didnt either. How do you know your children wont secretly think they are better than their AA classmates? How do you know they wont grow up not wanting to marry someone that looks like you? I wish all of you the best and I sincerely commend you all for having this same discussion whether under the guise of marriage, ills in our society etc. The definition of crazy is repeating the same behavior with no solution. Your “solution” of passing your children off to look like the very same people who treated you like a second class citizen reeks of inferiority complex quite frankly. Perhaps growing up in the south did that to you, who knows. All I know is that this blog is absolutely depressing and is a platform for fitnah. Think about how many AA/Blackamerican aka sisters who couldnt give your light kids, read this and go to sleep even more disheartened than when they woke up? How many arguments start on your blog? How many arguments does it cause when people read it? Think about that brother. Then again, its not your problem, youre passing.
[...] The attitude of the Muslims in general throughout the 1990’s left us open to a rift between the Muslims and the Black community. Whereas this relationship was strong in the past, these groups had successfully religiously convinced the Blackamerican Muslims to distance themselves from the communities they grew up in. The Blackamericans Muslims had taken a back seat to the immigrants and were carrying their water and Islam was ceasing to be a force in the Black Community But as I suggested earlier, I suspect that the main reason Blackamerican Muslims don’t stand for justice because its easier to simply not be Black at all. [...]
[...] “Islamic passing” expresses itself in many interesting ways. One version is to literally “pass” from America to a Muslim country by shedding their past history and cutting off family in the hopes that their children and/or grandchildren will marry amongst the natives and become Saudis, Egyptians, Kuwaitis or what have you. Similar to ‘mulattos‘ and ‘octoroons’ in the early twentieth century that passed into whiteness by breaking with their past and living white lives, the intent here is to make a clean and complete break with their Blackamerican
[...] of being left in the cold to observe from the outside as forgetten about relics from a past era or to assimilate completely into the immigrant world and resolve to leave their American identity [...]
[...] immerse themselves in their issues and cultural nuances. This is why you have some converts that opt to pass into the larger and more organized immigrant community and leave their old identity behind. It is [...]
Salam, I am a 17 year old Mixed child my mother is somalian and my father is english, when my parents got divorced my mother send me to saudi arabia to live with her sister to learn about islam so she can sort things out I can also pass for anything the problem was i was 14 year old girl and living with my aunty and her 6 daughters my aunty’s husband is a saudi arab. he was so kind to me may Allah reward him ameen
one day in the classroom my cousin and this saudi arab girl got into an argument the saudi girl got up and slapped my cousin infront of the teacher and called her habash bean head then the teacher got my cousin and the girl to the headmasters office my cousin was suspended and the girl came back the next day it really disapointed me and made my heart very heavy I was a well known loud mouth.. i went to the headmaster and told him he was a bad muslim even though i didnt know much about islam i got expelled for that alhamdulillah, i can name so many occasions of racism in dubai, abu dubai and the worst saudi arabia I know the worst muslim is better then the best kaffir but i couldnt help but hate them and resent them i met only few nice ones and even those ones you can tell their racist ways, what i dont understand is that in our religion RACISM is haram then why are soo many arab, pakistanis, malaysians etc muslims so racist? and why are the kuffars more tolerant and show more humility?
We have the Quraan and sunnaah shouldnt that guide us and clean our hearts? it really buzzles me everytime and saddens me. i recently had a proposal by a lebanese brother we had the two families sitting our somali traditional stuff and I now having second thoughts because i cant bare someone looking down on my mother it would kill me or any of my family because of the colour of their skin, i have especially noticed saudi’s really dislike somalians one saudi sisters bluntly said to me somalians are hard headed and they dont listen to their “superiors” and some part of what she said is true because i know a somali sister who was a maid for a saudi family she didnt have a working visa..when the lady of the house tried to strike her she beat her up and left, when i asked her why she did that she said if i stayed any longer the husband would beat me call the police on me and i would be deported in 2nds.. its ironic how kuffars show more mercy to fellow refugee muslims. ajeeb indeed ma3salam.
[...] I happened upon Tariq Nelson’s post, The New ‘Passing,’ which talks about the trend among some African-American Muslims to marry non-African [...]
[...] of other Muslim peoples, thus facilitating a pitiful flight into delusion (or in its extreme form, Islamic Passing ). The truth is that the meaning behind the “I’m Just a Muslim” dogma is so [...]
[...] of being left in the cold to observe from the outside as forgetten about relics from a past era or to assimilate completely into the immigrant world and resolve to leave their American identity [...]
I’ve skipped to the end, so I hope no one has already made this point, but as to Sr. Shama’s comments.
For me the issue isn’t your desire to have grandchildren that look like you, it is that the traits that you want replicated are hardly neutral ones. It would be nice if what we valued physically was simply a matter of preference, like colors one might choose from a box of paints. But unfortunately, traits like blond hair and blue eyes come with links to history and racism that don’t make it simply a matter of preferring these over traits darker skinned people are likely to have.
The reality is that the global racialized ideal is one in which the traits of light skinned people are preferred. And in fact held up, sometimes with violence (look at the Nazis) as what everyone should have.
It’s in that wider context of racism and colorism that I found your comment extremely offensive.
I can see the beauty in all sorts of different physiogamies. Alhamdullilah, I say for them all. But to you black is certainly not beautiful.
To Salafee Method,
Br. **our culture should be Islam** - not Arab or Pakistani or any other human-made culture. There is no way that you could ever convince me that oppression of others, through word or deed (which is what racism and colorism amount) to are synonymous with Islam.
And as such, they should go. And yes, if they are rampant in “Muslim countries” they should be stomped out. Not because American or Western culture are better (they certainly aren’t on this score by any measure, anyway), but because true Islam demands it.
If we really want to end racism, we will understand that God did not create race. It is a product of a racist political system. Race is not science. It is politics. When we really decide that we do not want to perpetuate racism anymore, we will stop using racist terminology. Using the excuse that, “that’s what people say” or “that’s the way it is” does not validate this ignorance. The participants in Nazi Germany or the old south can use the same excuse, “We conformed to white racism and called people niggers because that’s what people did, that’s what people said.” Conformity is not an excuse. Realize that race only really exists in the minds of people who have been brainwashed to believe it. It is an excuse for hatred. When we begin teach our children that their is only one human race on this planet right now, Homo Sapiens, them we will begin to end racism.
Asa just to add short comment. For those who want to lighten
up please hurry and leave. As one who has fought American racism for over sixty years, your moving on is no loss to those who stay and fight.
I have just one request when someone of
these color struck whatever they may be, says something to your beige children man up and don’t cry color abuse
This is something that goes on with the Muslims and no one wants to talk about it
As a pure African - not mixed at all and also a Muslim, I simply cannot understand the concept of whitening out my future generation so that there is no trace of my heritage is so sad. For me having children that are not black is not impossible but certainly not something that I fancy, In fact I would find it weird. I obviously love my Race, proud to be black. However to be objective considering the situation of blacks in Saudi, it is understandable why blacks will want to
P.S. Bottom line is that what ever race my children are i will certainly love them with all my heart
Bro. Marque, I am in agreement with you 100%. I am an AA. But, I fail to understand the amount of self-hatred among fellow AAs. I am a well-to-do brother (earning 100K), but I do not feel the degree of self hatred towards AA sisters that I see here. And more surprising, at least to me, is that many individuals here seem to think marrying an Arab or Desi would be “moving up”. My own family thinks that would be a major step backwards for me and have cautioned me NOT to do such a thing. I know many places in western europe these sentiments are the same. Personally, I’m neither pro or con about interracial relationships. I like ALL women (although my personal preference is for darker skinned sisters)
Further, from my experience, the generalization that many AA are moving up by marrying a Desi or Arab is a gross exageration ! I would be interested if a poll has ever been done among the Black population to see what Blacks feel about this.
On the other hand, however, I have heard many AAs say their desire to marry a White woman (at least a pretty one, anyway). Personally, I do not know what to say…is this just personal preference(without feelings of self-hatred) or is it indeed feelings of self-hatred. I suspect a little of both.
Celebrities Like Tiger Woods and Mariah Carey( Far as her marriage to Nick Cannon, I could be very wrong, But I just don’t see marital bliss in it. With her biased way of thinking, I could never see her with a Black man) irks me. They make it seem that being a Black is a nasty word, but they have no problem saying the non-Black half of themselves. What they fail to realize that if it wasn’t for their Black parents, they would not be here.
People should be proud of who they are and should be who they truly are no matter how many race they derive from.However ,the problem that have with Mariah and Tiger is that they are dissecting their true dual heritages. I just cannot stand it on Tiger’s insistence of being a so-called “Calibasian”( or what ever the it is) because there are many other Black people who can also they say they are such who , while are not biracial, look far more mixed than he. It’s just ashamed that he struggles with his Blackness. Since his late father was Black (and who he said he was close to), he should have no problem acknowledging that side of himself.
Speaking of “passing”…what makes people think they can get away from who they are? I think about a true story that I ‘Ive read some years back about a young Black woman who lived as a White woman. Unlike other cases of people intentionally trying to pass as White, she was raised as one without knowing her true self. What gave it away was when she has her third child. He was brown -skinned. By then, her Black mother had to confess. As a result she lost her husband( who was White). No telling how many other friends( or possible bigots) she may have lost because of it.
It doesn’t matter how many generations marry fair skinned people, somewhere up or down the line your heritage will tell on you. As long as people carry the gene of a darker skinned race, you can produce a darker skinned child( like in the case of the lady that I mentioned in the story and vice versa) I’ve known a White guy, who in spite of his Blonde haired blue eyed mom and brown haired green eyed father, came out with darker( dark olive complexioned.During the Summer months ,he’s almost brown ) skin, jet black, black hair and dark brown eyes. He said that it was a result of his Native American ancestry.
I also wondered what does color have to do with looks? When I was in my English class, my teacher would always tell us to be descriptive with our thoughts. I could imagine them giving me an “F’ for not doing it. If I had to describe my reasons for liking , for example,Jazz music( which I like to the fullest), I would say that it’s relaxing,non vulgar( at least the instrumentals.) and that I have a piece of mind with it. Just for me to say that I like Jazz because I like it is not definitive enough.
It’s the same with beauty. Besides the color , people should also describe their other physical features such as having a nice noses, ears, mouth, teeth etc. I thought that it was these additional features that make the physical beauty of a person?on top of that anybody body of any color can have these features. Just because a person is light skinned doesn’t mean they will always be pretty and just because a person is dark doesn’t make them ugly. It’s all about the power of genetics.
Bismillah,
As Salaamu Alaikum,
I recently ‘discovered’ the Third Resurrection blog and came here through the archives… surprised to see folks still commenting. So, of course, I have to add my 15 cents:
Believing in the Qadr of Allah, I understand that (as black people have always said) “what’s meant for me, won’t miss me.” And most of all, what Allah says about the Qur’an: “…in it is guidance for those who establish prayer, give (charity) from what We have provided for them, and BELIEVE IN THE UNSEEN.”
You never know where your ’soulmate’ will come from, or where he is now. Is he someone you’ve known all your life, or someone you will meet because you caught the wrong bus? Or is he someone who has already returned to Allah as a Shahid, and you will meet him only in paradise? Only Allah knows.
So, AA sisters, or sisters of any background who feel that their men (as a group) have placed them “in suspense” please remember that Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala IS Love. There is no love without His permission, His instigation, and His nurturing preservation.
He plants love wherever He wants it to grow. And it is a MERCY for Him to remove you from the path of those who do NOT love you back.
Stay strong.
Your Sister In Islam
J. BintDawoud
Truly unfortunate.It is true….most reverts enter islam inspite of most of us(how we have degerated),but caused by their research.May ALLAH bring us back to the right path,amen.
Wow I can’t believe a majority of views on this board and the ignorance they stem from.
Slavery was practiced throughout the Islamic world. It would be allowed today had there not been a global force against it (many scholars feel it should be re-introduced its abolition was an occidental imposition) Slavery in Arab lands including Morocco pre date slavery in the West. Slavery was more pleasure than production for every 2 men and a women slave brought in the West 2 women and a man were brought in Arab Lands. There was a hierarchy present, Black men at the bottom, with White women at the top. The biggest port was situated in Zanzibar. Where does the Word Abid come from? The gradients of colour in Morocco and Islamic lands come from producing children out of these unions. Women were owned by their masters. They could buy their freedom via producing children who could be free. The humane treatment meted out to slaves due to Islamic provisions and the integration of slaves in the family structure resulted in gradients of colour in Morrocon (Arabic) society and the internalisation of colour bias. There was no armed rising against Slavery because they, the salves were part of the structure and family, with its inherent loyalties and safety valves. So that is why one can often pass in Arabic lands if one is not obviously black. White colour superiority precedes colonism in the WEST. The Ottomans would only marry (For strategic reasons) white women in the Balkans, Serbs etc after their foundation era.
This Slavery mindset is still intact in Arab lands hence the inherent racism.
A pattern seems to be emerging here, whites taught to view their race as aggressors are apologetic or just not racist?????? are willing to marry peoples of other colours without any feelings of going down the ladder *How else can you explain the figures if they were racist they would not marry non-whites?
In the UK the statistics show that it is a rarity that black residents will marry black resident British.
As a Muslim I am often astonished at our ignorance of our own slavery. We must reflect that a majority of literature open to us by Arabic countries denies or hides this aspect of their history however one must be honest and also reflect the truth that blacks sold blacks to Arabs and Westerners. Perspective is important in these issues.
My friend a beautiful Asian woman finds it difficult finding a partner a majority of her contemporises and reverts want to utilise the new pool of white converts and they are not embarrassing asking for this solely. I have encouraged her to widen her choices but I find it interesting that whilst White women are renowned for marrying out, Muslim women or women of colour tend to be reticent to do so?
@ Yasmin
You are right and no one wants to talk about this. One of the things that I have had problems with is that there was never been an abolition movement within Muslim countries. The Ottomans carried away from 3 million Europeans into slavery over a 150 year period and African slaves were made into eunucs.
Arab and Persian literature which depicts blacks as “stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry and easily affected by music and drink.”
Nasir al-Din Tusi, the famous Muslim scholar said of blacks: “The ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro.”
Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, writes that blacks are “only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings.”
Classical Islamic law allows a light-skinned Muslim man to marry a black woman, but a black Muslim man is restricted from marrying a light-skinned woman. As the literature of the time put it, “only a whore prefers blacks; the good woman will welcome death rather than being touched by a black man.”
However, we are ignorant because were not told these things before. We were told that Islam is totally against slavery and Muslims did not participate and that Muslims worked to abolish it. The simple fact is that this is just not true
However, we are ignorant because were not told these things before. We were told that Islam is totally against slavery and Muslims did not participate and that Muslims worked to abolish it. The simple fact is that this is just not true>>>>
Salam ….
Any religion, and that includes Islam, is going to reflect the tastes and culture, the social culture, of the people of the time and place in which it is practiced. After the death of the Compansions, whether we like to believe it or not, the predominating culture of Islam that was spread was not spread by believing religious mystics, but my warriors in the throes of conquest, material conquest and all that such conquest entailed. There are myths surrounding the material culture of all religions. If we attempt to make those patterns fit with the essence of religion, Islam in this case, as it was inspired and given to us, we lose, we fail, and we suffer all the disappointments and confusions that destabilize our faith. Is it possible to believe that Mongol warlord, newly converted to Islam and his army and retainers were going to spread the pure Islam of the Prophet? (pbuh) And is it possible to believe that when the tide of such nominal Muslims swept through vast tracts of land and left behind the thinnest framework of Islam, is it possible that such practices bore any resemblance to the Islam of the Prophet and of Allah? This is no different than thinking that the “Democracy” of George Bush et al reflects the spirit and esence of what democracy is supposed to be. Like the old saying, Islam is pure and transparent, but it will reflect the level of clarity of the vessel, i.e. each of us, ancient or model, that contains it. Of course the Islam of the Prophet and of Allah does not condone slavery, even though slavery is mentioned in the Qur’an in the context of its existence in the 7th century. Of course the Qur’an and Allah do not say to kill women if they appear out of hijab. And yet …… We cannot compare Islam to the lowest common human denominators who have dared to speak in its name. People have failed Islam and Allah through ignorance, through greed, and through cultural prejudices that have nothing to do with Islam.
Honesty is important! I feel presently we impose certain ‘normative notions’ based on the presence tense on our view of Islam when what was considered ‘normative’ in the 7th century was completely different.
Our prophet (PBUH) was a reformer not a revolutionary hence he made humanitarian rulings on the treatment of women and slaves. If one was to take the spirit of these reforms to the present day one could come to a natural conclusion that showed a preference of empowerment for women and slaves (specifically the wholesale slavery of
Salam Yasmin ….
You’re hitting a lot of important nails on the head with that post, and very eloquently too I might add. This is how it’s done. Rip the allusion and him-hawing and beating around the bush and call this stuff as it is. Whoever owns the power will come up with all kinds of reasons why it’s the sacred duty of the enslaved to kow tow and reinforce these models. And let’s face it, the arabs didn’t own Islam until the Mongols tipped the balance. I love much about the Arab culture, but I don’t love the wholesale comandeering of Islam as nothing more than a tool to enforce their own very material power. I love men, but the ancient world attitude that women were perpetual children in need of guidance through punishment, is as ludicrous as the notion that some races are born to serve. Please! The mechanisms here are so transparent they should be laughable. Except that they are so entrenched in the ego perpetuation of those in power. So now anything that upsets the status quo of 7th century power hierarchies is an attack on Islam? Gee, doesn’t that sound like, ” …. anybody who questions the government is a traitor” or anyone who questions the activities of the state of Israel is an anti-semite. That’s some powerful ju-ju there designed to short circuit any possible culpability and responsibility. But it’s funny how these same people who scream Innovation! at anything that questions their power base, certainly don’t hesitate to embrace a whole new world full of other innovations that allow them to enforce and maintain that power. Whenever I encounter people online who say “The Prophet (pbuh) didn’t do this or that” … I say yeah, and he didn’t use a computer either, so sign off and shut up.
*But it
African people: Seek the teachings of Amadou Bamba. Help one another. Be a pilgrim in Touba. We have our own culture, why should you turn away from it? I am an African man and I will never let my sister marry a foreigner, why should Arabs want to marry us? We are as racist/tribalist as them. How come you never hear them complain about our preferences? Stop seeking solace from other people. We have our own societies to worry about.
[...] Recent Comments Rasheed Moore on Supporting One of Their O…Sid on Kicking Butt in Their Stu…K-Dude on Kicking Butt in Their Stu…Peaches on The Tension between Black Amer…patb on Kicking Butt in Their Stu…fisabilillah on Kicking Butt in Their Stu…dawudwalid on Supporting One of Their O…BlackVoter on Supporting One of Their O…patb on Supporting One of Their O…thisi on The New ‘Passing… [...]
[...] Adkins on the privilege of having light skin. There is also increasingly a such thing as “non-black” privilege. Which brings me back to Dyson and his incarcerated brother.
BISMILLAH AND SALAAMS:
O People
Lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefor listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People
Just as you regard this month, this day, this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest); therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity.
Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all interest due to Abbas Ibn
Here we are just days before the 2008 Presidential election, and we say ont a word about the elephant and donkey in the corner of the chat- room. Obama is high yellow, he married (Down?), and now he wants to be seen as a “Black man”. Something he hasn’t done most of his life. As a “black” black man, I resent the convenience of his jumping the fence. In Washington DC (NW 14th and U st.) high yellows were the ones who had the best of what life had to offer. As they moved in and out of the community, we who were imprisoned there always hated how they would brag as to their ability to pass as white. Yeah, when pressed to the wall for a reply, I will say “Obama”, but thank God for the secret ballot.
Salaamualaikum,
I’ve spent a good amount of time in Saudi, UAE, Germany, France, UK and the US of A.
Racism amongst Muslims is rampant.
African Americans can be just as racist as any racist Saudi. Bengalis are also just as racist as their Saudi counterpart. White Muslims too hold warped racist views usually kept to themselves about their own specialness…
The solution really is to cultivate taqwa in the ummah. To educate the ummah on issues of race and racial histories.
Pride is a shaitanic trait and is at the root of racism.
In my immediate family I have Afro-americans, american whites, jamaicans and bengalis. In my immediate circle of family associates, that group expands to African (ghana, Nigeria), india and pakistan, white british and emirati.
The whole bunch can be pretty racist with whites being the least racist and western blacks being by far the most racist.
That’s my 40 year experience.
The solution is taqwa with ilm.
Wass Salaam
I just want to say that I am proud to be Black African and a Muslimah. Alhamdulilah. Please visit Black African Muslim countries and you can see how alhamdulilah the people practice Islam and fully embrace their identities. I love Africa and inshallah I hope to go back. I really don’t understand why people allow these racial issues to take over their lives. So many Muslims travel everywhere in the Muslim world BUT NEVER to BLACK AFRICAN MUSLIM countries. Please do so that you can have a different muslim experience. thanks.
Hello.
I’m new there
Nice forum!
cool blog, I like it.
Hey… sorry for my english, where I can [b]download XRumer 5.0 Palladium FOR FREE[/b]??? Thanks!!!
It’s perfect software for promo and SEO, but cant find any crack for it((
cracked XRumer 2.9 and XRumer 3.0 are too old, Im need FRESH!
2001 toyota tundra
2007 toyota supra
As long as we’re extolling the benefits of passing and how it makes life easier, why don’t we just go all the way and leave islam too?
Allah knows, it would certainly make life easier.
Mega Millions, Powerball, Lotto 6/49, Super 7, Euro million, New York Lotto - Be the Next Jackpot Winner With The Only Online Service That Enables You To Purchase Official Lottery Tickets From Around The World.
Если вы хотите узнать, как я взломали ваш сайт, послать $20 WMZ: Z385450145510 и электронной почте c3m3t3ry@gmail.com Спасибо.
I`m saving 75% on my cigarette purchases. useing it its much more cheaper and healtyer then the normal ones
if someone else is interesed to buy i got a discount coupon [b]disc5-1245[/b] on http://tinyurl.com/cuy2rf
I found the best thing to my boyfriend’s birthday… It’s really hard to find cool and still unique.
So today I saw this thing from ZTARLET on facebook where you can name a real star in the sky and have the certificate and a teddy bear sent to you and pay it by a single SMS. So awesome
Hi,
What are the best dedicated server web hosting company?
I’m want to build a web site for my supervisor.
Thank you,
-Wendy
Tired of a competitor’s site? Hinder the enemy? Fed pioneers or copywriters?
Kill their sites! How? We will help you in this!
Obstructions of any site, portal, shop!
Different types of attacks: Date-attack, Trash, Attack, Attack, etc. Intellectual
You can work on schedule, as well as the simultaneous attack of several sites.
On average the data, ordered the site falls within 5 minutes after the start. As a demonstration of our capabilities, allows screening.
Our prices
24 hours of attack - $ 70
12 hours of the attack - $ 50
1 hour attack - $ 25
Contact via ICQ: 588 666 582