And you still deny it?
Posted on July 27th, 2007 by Tariq Nelson
For those that denied that “The New Passing” exists, check out this post
Filed under: Uncategorized
For those that denied that “The New Passing” exists, check out this post
Filed under: Uncategorized
The reason that people feel that they must ‘pass’ is because of the promotion of Arab supremacy in the name of Islam and it produces brothers that speak with fake Arab accents and dress and act like Arabs and adopt their culture. No wonder people want to “pass”
Yusuf, if people actually understood Islam, they’d be content being black, white, Pakistani, mulatto, metisse, etc…
Then again, most folks suffer from a lack of self-esteem, which makes it easier to pretend to be something else.
“…produces brothers that speak with fake Arab accents and dress and act like Arabs and adopt their culture.”
Subhanallah, I hate it when people (usually brothers in my experience) engage in this kind of adopt-a-culture nonsense.
[...] Tariq Nelson reminded us that colorism still exists in his blog entry,And you Still Deny it. His short entry directs us to Umm Adam’s blog entry Racism and Colorism in Saudi. Time and [...]
Abu Ameerah said, “Subhanallah, I hate it when people (usually brothers in my experience) engage in this kind of adopt-a-culture nonsense.”
I hate it too. As I’ve mentioned numerous times before, I used to belong to an “wives of Arabs,” e-group. A day never passed w/out a sister asking “How do I become an Arab wife?” NOT Muslim wife *SIGH* I have a girlfriend who is dear to my heart; she refers to herself as an Arab and hates it when I remind her that she’s not.
Unfortunately I’ve noticed this trend with SOME, actually A LOT, muslimahs. Whatever the husband is, the sisters tend to metamorphose into. It
Tariq why are you so eager to encourage this behavior? This is not the first time you’ve encouraged UmmAdam to try to get her children to “pass.” Assuming that it would be possible, would you expect the same of your own children here in the U.S.?
ummali:
I am not encouraging anything either way. All I am pointing out is that many people ARE taking this option in the Ummah because it is just not advantageous to be black. Many denied that it existed, but it does
as salaamu alaykum,
While I understand this frustration, Wounded soul, I think it’s a little different with women than it is with men. In most cultures it is women who are the guardians of culture and who pass it on to the next generation. It’s not so much a desire to wipe out the woman’s culture as it is the man’s desire for his children to be whatever he is.
Although I don’t “play Lebanese” I do speak Lebanese Arabic to my children, make tabbouli and hummos with the friend chicken and greens and generally do my best to pass on both cultures and encourage my husband and his family to do their part in instilling a sense of identity and even pride in their Jnoobi roots. I can’t do this as well without assimilating to some degree or other into his culture and I’m okay with that. I consider it a tremendous benefit to my children to be able to negotiate each culture with ease and a sense of belonging.
As a convert especially, I think it’s of benefit to my children to feel attached to a culture and place where they are a part of the majority.
What if there was a Black power or Black consciousness movement in the Arab world? Without some form of resistance, some form of raised awareness, these mentalities will continue to remain unchallenged. Latin America would be a better model for understanding race in the ME than the American model. Perhaps Afro-Arabs should look to the ways in which Black Puerto Ricans and Black Brazilians reclaim their identity.
“…reclaim their identity…”
What identity would that be? Most blacks in the middle east know exactly who they are, and still have connections to the motherland. Those that were slaves and then freed in the seventies now hold their former masters names and are considered as part of the tribe.
Don’t make the mistake of projecting American Chattel slavery on the rest of the world.
Many Black Saudis (esp. Barnawi’s of WA) were never slaves, and made hijrah to the Arabian Peninsula.
To suggest that they need to “find identity” reeks of internalized hatred of ones race and shortsided projections of regional history to other parts of the world.
Then, what is this “identity” they need to find? Was “black” ever an identity before america and the black power movement? Is being black such a superior attribute that one has to give precedence to it over all other cultural and ethnic considerations? If you say yes then essentially blacks are the master race, all others bow before them. If no then people have the freedom to determine which aspects of their personal backgrounds they wish to accentuate.
Children born of a white man and black woman are white, in that their father is white. Why must mixed-heritage children be expected to automatically identify with arbitrary blackness, when in fact a large part of what they do is considered “white” culturally and socially.
The same can be said for blacks in the middle east or South America.
Why must “being black” be the ruler by which we measure ourselves and others. For many people in the middle east it is about tribe and ethnic origin, not about “being black”.
Really, this is something that Americans need to get over.
I agree with “anon”. It is best to stay away from a “black” identity in the Muslim world and there is nothing wrong with lightening up the family to fit in
Anon,
Even though my statement was a bit tongue and cheek, there was something truthful in what I was saying. And because your statement is full of gross generalizations and misrepresentations about what I wrote, I thought it would be worthwhile addressing you. I won’t be able to hit all the point you made. But here is a few:
“To suggest that they need to
Brother Tariq Nelson
1) What were your intentions in posting this?
2) When you state their is no advantage to being black, are you talking about in the Muslim world? The West ( United States)? Where are you talking about?
3) You always say you created this website to offer solutions? What is the solution if any?
I also remember reading one of your threads where you say you married an Arab woman, how does that give you crediability on the issue?
Educate me brother becuase I’m not getting where you are trying to go with issues like this? Perhaps I’m totally missing something here or didn’t read the right link?
Sister Maragari Azizah Hill
Excellent post sister! I love reading your responses on issues like these becuase you don’t operate from an emotive place, but a logical educated foundation instead.
Do you plan on publishing any of your work? Will you ever post any of your work on your website? I’m personally interested becuase my husband is from West Africa and is actually from the Fulani tribe. I think he’d be interested to? I hope you can respond and let us know.
I’ve been waiting for some one in addition to Dr. McCloud to study the African/Islamic/Muslim diaspora.
I also wanted to say that your work could probably do wonder for the children of African Muslims. Hope that’s an encouragement!
Thank you.
As salaamu alaykum,
Br. Tariq, you’ve left two comments on UmmAdam’s blog on the subject which appear to encourage her to have her children pass:
tariqnelson Says:
July 27th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Umm Adam
You haven
As salaamu alaykum,
Sis. Margari you said
“I don
correction
that should read “stand up for justice even if it’s against ourselves”
sheesh, also i meant “how can oppression be changed if the oppressed refuse to resist.”
Walaikum salaam,
Umm Amina, thank you for your support. Some days, I think that Muslim Americans don’t give two squats about historical scholarship. It is rare to see my work valued or to find real substantive support from the Muslim community. And its not like the academy is very friendly to women of color. So it all equals a very isolating, frustrating experience. There are low days when I wonder why am I doing this, and I have to remind myself that I’m doing this because it can help people–one day. So thank you for your encouragement because that helps keep this alive.
In the future, I hope to publish my research. But there is the messy issue of copyright clearance and time. I’m hoping to submit stuff to conferences for next year. But if you are interested I can send you my seminar papers. Just shoot me an email. Right now I focus on getting the necessary language training so that I can complete my Ph.D., get a job, and publish boring books.
Umm Ali
You raise some good points. I think it is important to question the “subjectivity” of any author. I agree that brother Tariq Nelson should be a bit more transparent in these articles. This is why anthropologists write a chapter or two about their research experiences. It helps you understand the biases, preoccupations, and overall the lenses by which he/she is viewing the subject.
I don’t mean to attack the brother at all, I am just wondering what types of issues does he wrestles with being married to an Arab woman. What is his perspective on Black women? How have they changed over time? How will he raise his own children? Hows do these personal decisions inform his own writing?
As for your issue with my statement:
It is not for me to judge someone who is ashamed of an ancestor who lived, struggled, and died so that they could exist. I think that, ultimately, they will be held accountable to the people that they deny. White supremacy is predicated upon notions of white racial purity. This is why I find destabilizing the construction of whiteness useful for anti-racism work.
One reason why I don’t have a moral judgment for those who looked white and decided to live white is that I have seen the ways people treat really light skinned Blacks who look Black today. They have to continually assert their Black identity in order to forfeit white privilege. Also, they are subject to ridicule and scrutiny by both communities. Likewise, I don’t buy into the one drop rule, which came into existence around the 1880s. The one drop rule doesn’t apply the other way around. I don’t go around everyday asserting parts of my Native American and French/British ancestry. It is considered a sign of self hatred if Black people list out their mixed heritage. People assume that they do not want to be Black. But my understanding of Black American heritage is that it is a mixed identity, and a blend of cultures with so much creativity. I live as a Black woman because that my African heritiage which defines much of my experiences.
I remember when Skip Gates went to the Swahili Coast and he casting his moral judgment on the Africans who insisted on their Arab and Persian origins even though they were clearly African. Since the Medieval ages, when Portuguese sailors came to trade, people on the Swahili Coast insisted on their Shirazi and Arab roots. If you read their own oral histories, you’d think that Swahili societies were mere Arab colonies. But Swahili culture was not just an Arab transplant. In post independent Africa, this was especially contested. For newly independent African nations, historians looked for indigeneous African routes of Swahili socieities and downplayed the influence of Arab culture. In some countires, the Shirazi ruling class wer kicked out because they are not African. Now days, scholars have shown that Swahili society is a blend of African, Arab, and Indian cultures. They have shown how slowly ME forms of architecture were adopted for homes and mosques. Swahili is a Bantu language with Arab loan words, not an Arab langauge. And that the oral traditions not necessarily true but reflected notions of prestige from Middle Eastern, as opposed to African, routes. But Skip Gates in many ways imposed his own views of racial identity and casting moral judgment on his research subjects. He kept pressing them about their African routes. For many historians this was highly controversial. This is not to say that we should ignore historical evidence and agree that people who look as Black as Wesley Snipes but deny they are African. I am more interested in understanding the ways that identity is constructed than casting moral judgments on it when shedding light on that construction will do more good to unravel systems of oppression than moralizing.
My argument about notions of white racial purity and the one drop rule was more nuanced than I am able to present here. I found that there is a tendency in Africa for the one drop rule to operate for whiteness. I know a mixed Liberian/Lebanese man who was constantly called white. Colonial officials tried to insist that Fulani were predominantly white with some Negro admixture. Meanwhile, they’d sit in the back of the bus in America. Colonial officials insisted that Fulani accomplishments in scholarship and civilizaiton (Sokoto Caliphate) were due to that bit of North African blood. Then you have some Nigerians who claim that Fulani are not really Nigerian but outsiders. It all gets complicated
Basically, my argument stated that in the US a person who had 15 white ancestors to 1 Black one in some states was legally Black. I remember a case in the 80s where a woman’s white life was ruined when she applied for a passport. She had 1 Black ancestor out of 8. She sued for her white status, but the state spent tons of money defending its decision in court and her bigoted husband divorced her. Now that people’s rights are secured, numerous “white” people are able to discover their “black.” There are some stats that argue that 30% of white Americans have some black ancestry. That ancestry may be at 1-3 %, which is minimal compared to the 20%. of Native American or European admixture in African Americans. If we applied Black racial purity laws, few of us would be able to check the box. It would be a travesty if we maintain the same rules that maintain white identity, which is based on notions of pure European heritage to the exclusion of African heritage. We’d have to exclude famous figures like Halle Berry, Beyonce, but more importantly influential figures like Booker T. Washington, Frederick Douglas, Clayton Powell, Coretta Scott King, Rosa Parks.
At this point, I’d rather Black American identity to be voluntary. If someone feels ashamed of being Black, doesn’t want to consider someone like me for marriage because I’m too Black, they can keep on stepping. I don’t have the energy to cast moral judgments. But that doesn’t mean I’m no interested in understading the cultural, sociological, historical, and psychological factors that play a part in their decision making process. On the other hand, I’m not going to judge someone if they find it morally wrong for someone to hide their ancestry. The issue in ME society is that it is patrilineal, and frequently Afro Arabs have a mother who is of African descent, but no one cares about matrilineal histories in ME society. But that’s a whole other issue.
as salaamu alaykum,
I’m not a proponent of the one-drop rule either, and while I completely understand how we decendents of kidnapped Africans enslaved in the Americas came to be so touchy about the subject, I think it’s often hurt us. As someone once mentioned to me, this is especially true when we discuss Black women and beauty standards. Hollywood and the music industry can feel smug that they applaud black beauty by holding up women who are mixed race like Beyonce and Halle Berry as examples, continuing to leave those of us who are less obviously or not mixed at all at the bottom of the barrel.
That being said, the example I had in mind is a little more straightforward than someone who is essentially white (having say, only a black grandparent) denying their heritage. If my own children wanted to deny their Africaness they could. Though they could NEVER pass for white, they could certainly be any number of things. In Italy many people thought my husband and son were Italian. My middle child looks very Arab and as a baby an Iranian lady told me “she looks like one of our children.” That would, of course, mean that they’d have to excommunicate my mother and myself from their lives. It seems positively silly at best and haraam (in the case of breaking ties with family) at worst for someone with an African parent to deny their heritage. Not to mention the psychological damage. No parent should have to hide out so thier kids can avoid dealing with other people’s issues. In fact, I think it’d be damaging to their character.
Ummali, you are right 100% right to point out that it is morally repugnant to deny your family memebers in an effort to access white privilege and pass. It is repugnant to be be ashamed of any family member. Wasn’t that the plot of “imitation of life?”
What is itneresting is that Black people who passed as white rarely passed as WASPy whites. They normally used to pass as Latinos, Italians, and Jews. Neighbors may have assumed that they converted to Protestantism. Those were categories that weren’t considered white, but were eventually given the card and became white. On the other hand, ARabs were considered white for the most part, but then became colored as more Muslims migrated ot the US following the Immigration act that ended race quotas in immigration. I enjoyed Tariq Nelson’s article about the new passing, which is about ambiguity. In some ways, it leaves those of us who are less ambiguous behind. Perhaps that is what causes me discomfort as someone who is unambiguously black.
Umm Amina
My original intention in bringing this out was because I had been told this personally on several occasions by other brothers. We always talk about “no race in Islam” but yet want to gloss over the fact that it is not a welcome thing to be black in many parts of the Ummah. As pointed out, many Arabs will call a black person an “abd” without any evil intention at all. So when I say that there is “no advantage to being black” I mean in the Muslim world.
The first part of the solution is to admit it exists
And finally, I do not believe that because a person is interracially married that they are disqualified from making observations on race
Umm Ali:
In KSA, race issues are taboo. At once people believe they are not racist while being not liking blacks. That being the case - in a country like KSA - many have opted to ‘lighten up the family’ so that their children will not have to catch it like they have. That is why I asked her what I asked. I would not have said the same thing to Umm Adam if she were here in the US because it is a totally different dynamic.
Just not sure you can fight against the massive tide over there (when you move there) and try to change it as a foreigner. That is why many just chose to remain here rather than try to “pass” or encourage their children to do so. I have heard many brothers that live over there say that their children were light enough to “pass” and get the “non-black” privilege everyone else gets.
As I said before, this “passing” does not necessarily mean that one denies their heritage, but instead plays up their non-black heritage in order to be treated well.
It is despicable that this is the case, but that is what I see
I have biracial children and I can identify with the sister a lot in that my children don’t really consider themselves ‘black in the sense that they are “down with the cause”. They don’t deny their heritage, but just kinda look at things as if “I have African ancestry, but also other than that” and that is who they are.
I don’t think that my children should be forced to chose just to be black alone but should appreciate all of their heritage
As salaamu alaykum,
Thank you Tariq, for taking the time to explain that.
Uthman:
My children are still young, the oldest is five. They are just barely waking up to race and skin color. I have no idea how they will choose to identify, but so long as I have control over it I teach them that they are black Arabs. In Lebanon they are Lebanese with an African mother, in the U.S. amongst Muslims they are Lebanese with an African mother and amongst my own they are black with an Arab father. That’s how people deal with them, and that’s okay with me. I fully expect them to be “down” for both their peoples, as they come from two traditionally oppressed minorities, African Americans and S. Lebanese Shi’a. So far it’s working.
My hope is that they are able to feel comfortable in both worlds. My daughter (3) the one who looks most Arab also most identifies with being Lebanese, she speaks the most Arabic. My son seems to identify more with being Black and being American. That will probably change. We haven’t been to Lebanon in a while and I’m sure that taking them “home” will impact their identity. It’s difficult. I’m glad to see that those of us with mixed-race children are not falling into the “well I’m raising them to be just Muslim” trap. I know some families who tried to ignore race and identity for some generic “islam” and their kids grew to be TOTALLY confused adults.
Racial ambiguity creates racial stratification in many societies which produces conflict unless identity is based upon nationality and/or culture. For example, Arab identity is non-racial but we know that all “Arabs” are not created equal. The farther you are removed from the Hijaz Arab or proto-Arab the lower your status within that Arab society. In addition, Latin identity is non-racial but the further one is removed for the Castillian or proto-Iberian type the lower your status within Latin society. So blending in will only get you so far. So as a black person who lightens up his family your legacy will fade as your progenitors seek remove your identity from their existence to further move up social, economic, and political ladders within racially ambiguous societies.
I for one selfishly would not want to see myself erased from my family because I was born with politically, socially unacceptable skin color and features. I would want to be judged by future generations based upon my character and contribution to my family.
We have seen this happen in Egypt and all over the ME.
I appreciate the observation of social phenomena and insight into how to navigate within that society but we must as AA have solutions to turn the tables.
For example, I would think that a Civil Rights Movement for minorities in these countries dealing with inequalities and injustices would be the first step to eradicating anti-black sentiments in these countries.
I know that many people within the Maghreb now are embracing their Amazhiag culture and considering themselves African before Arabs.
It will not be popular within this country to Arab so pragmatically speaking, I would think AA would not try to be identified with Arabs who are basically enemies of the state to some Americans.
I know in Brazil people of African descent are now embracing their African heritage in greater numbers than in the past.
The Middle East needs a movement among its African populations to be proud of their racial make-up. I know that their are people working on this.
Salaam
I
Ron,
You bring up some good points, especially in your discussion of North Africa and Brazil. I think it is important to note that the promoting racial ambiguity as an ideal still discrimates against people who are darker. Racialized discrimination has not ended in Brazil even though there were policies promoting racial mixing. Education and teaching our children to be ethical in their treatment of other people is the key to eradicating racism. We have to look more to Allah’s plan, for the reasons why he created difference. One of the things that I have learned as an African American woman is to look to Allah to define my self worth, not other people’s social constructions. If I listened to the anti-Black sentiment that numerous people have said, I would have destroyed myself (figuratively and literally) a long time ago.So, even though many societies look down upon people who have slave ancestry (since enslavement is considered a dishonor) and value noble lineages, my value as a human is not predicated upon some noble lineage or pure heritage but rather how do I use the gifts that Allah has given me.
Tariq Nelson,
I agree, with you. I think it is even more important that you speak up on such issues. Being in an interracial relationship shouldn’t preclude you from the discussion. That is why sometimes, when you put controversial articles out there and don’t make a comment I wonder where you are coming from. Sometimes though, I wonder why you don’t address some of the derogatory statements made against Black women by commentators on the blog.
So, even though many societies look down upon people who have slave ancestry
Actually, its the black ancestry, because there plenty of Arabs with white slave ancestry (e.g. Circassian, Slavic) and these people (women ) are on the top of the attractive pedestal in most Arab cultures. So its definitely the Black ancestry that is the issue not the indication of being descended from slaves.
Being married to a Saudi myself I can tell you, without a doubt, that Saudis are some of the most racist people I have ever met. It is sad, I mean it is the Land of the Two Holy Shrines. But it isnt just Saudi, it is the entire Middle East. There is a very unhealthy obsession with skin colour.
I dislike converts who try too hard to adopt Arabic culture. I speak Arabic, unlike most of these people, like Arabic music and food but would never try to adopt an Arabic accent, nor do I feel the need to wear thiab or whatever.
I remember when one person on the internet moved to the Middle East, they are a convert, and within a week or so they were using the word “ya’ani” in their posts written in English. This is a person who is a born and bred English speaker.
For those of you who dont know, in Arabic “ya’ani” is like saying “umm” in English. I speak pretty good Arabic and have done so for several years. I know some coverts who married Arabs and lived in the Middle East for 20 plus years and speak fluent, almost unaccented Arabic, and none of them use “ya’ani” when speaking in English.
I find this fake, wannbe Arabic postering a bit silly. If people who spent decades in the Middle East do not use “ya’ani” when speaking in English, I doubt that a person living for a few months in the Levant would either. I met native speaking Arabs who speak English who do not use “ya’ani” when speaking in English.
I guess it is an obsession that some people have to try and fit in as much as possible. Sooner or later they learn that no amount of “ya’ani” or thiab, kofta, or anything else will make them fit. They will always be an outsider to a certain extent.
I have learned, being married to an Arab, to enjoy being an outsider. I never got into the endless and unsuccessful drive to be more Arab than the Arabs. I speak Arabic sure, I listen to Arabic music, yep, and I can eat more foul than an Egyptian, but in no way do I try to be an Arab.
When I speak English I speak it with an American accent and I dont try to inject Arabic words nor do I feign an Arabic accent. I am an American and I always will be. I am also 100% Muslim and that is completely compatable.
For me the best example of what it is like to have a healthy mix without wanting to be one or the other is when my wife and I had a Jordanian lady and her white American convert husband over some time back. He has been a convert here in the DC area for some 25 years plus.
The husband and I were sitting on the sofa watching a Clint Eastwood western commenting on the desert landscape and where we thought the movie was filmed. My wife and his wife were in the background chatting in Arabic. From time to time they would talk to us in Arabic and we talked back in a mix of Arabic and English.
No need to act like we were Arabs, no need for our wives to talk English. We didnt feel a need to put on old Egyptian soaps on the TV, we were more than happy to do what any normal Americans might have done.
I think people being so unhappy in their own skins is what leads to so many problems today. Alhamdulillah, I am happy in my white skin, I feel no need to act nor do I want to be Arab.
aboo sinan,
Maybe your observations of English speaking converts using ‘ya’anee is right (them trying hard to take on others cultures) but I think you could look at it from another angle inshaaAllaah.
As a convert for the past 16 years maashaaAllaah, I can remember when some shaykhs would come over to give us talks and the odd ya’anee would come out. A lot of people in the UK take years to learn arabic and therefore they introduce easy little words into their daily language, out of love of arabic and the connection it has to Islaam. You will find people saying Ukhtee, akhee, ijlis, uskut, laa, na’am, tafidhal, labas and ya’anee whilst they can’t hold a 10 min conversation in arabic. I personally have bought air freshner, soap, toothpaste and lots more just because it has arabic on it! I used to wear many different clothes from the Muslim world just to have a closeness to the Muslim culture. I know where I come from and so does everybody else, I love being British but my Islaam and the way the Muslims live in their countries is exciting so whats the problem? Saying that I do hate it when I see white Muslim women trying so hard to be Pakistani (with the clothes) to the extent that they sometimes look stupid!
I understand where you’re coming from but please remember that even though we have a culture of our own in the West, ours is surrounded by kufr customs (even in language) and arabs customs USUALLY are more Islaamic!! Allaahu Aalim
Abu Sinan, you are right. I see a lot of convert women who marry Arab or Desi men really try hard to pass as non-white. There are even some women who have been serially married to Arab men and consider themselves honororary Arabs. I have seen a wierd love-hate relationship, a secret envy and resentment towards Arab women. It is the flip side of the passing issue because their fair complexioned blonde haired children are the darlings of the community. Maybe they are making new and improved Desis or Arabs, with the features and skin tone that so many Arabs and Desis aspire to emulate. But I may be wrong.
It is the flip side of the passing issue because their fair complexioned blonde haired children are the darlings of the community. Maybe they are making new and improved Desis or Arabs, with the features and skin tone that so many Arabs and Desis aspire to emulate.
I have noticed this too. on the flip side black children are not tolerated near as much and can be banned very quickly in many immigrant masjids
ROFL @ Arab customs USUALLY are more Islamic
If that were true you wouldn’t find skin bleaching soap, racism, tribalism, widespread ignorance regarding Islam…
Thanks for the laugh though.
On the serious side, if you look deeply at American culture you’ll find more islam in it that all of the Arabian penisula… be certain to pick up your copy of “Girls of RIyadh,” Finally the truth has been told regarding the dating scene in our beloved Saudi
Magari,
You are right. See I have the opposite thing. I have sneaking part of me that despises Arabs, or at least Arab culture. I cannot stand the laziness and the lack of work ethic I saw time and time again all over the Middle East.
I cannot stand the lack of respect to which the truth is held. The idea that a bunch of white lies are better than the truth makes me boil.
It is a love hate thing with me. I love the Arabic language, I love Arab literature (what there is of it) Arabic music and the like. On the other hand much of “day to day” Arabic culture I cannot stand, I actively loathe it.
Being married to an Arab it has taken me time to get used to this contradiction but I have.
what about parents that want their kids to learn Arabic. eventually you will be sprinkling your English with Arabic if you want your children to learn vocabulary and what not.
That being said, the whole accent thing is really weird but I dont even think the people realize that they do it. Everyone has their idiosyncrasies, I guess this is one for some converts. I wonder with this happens with spouses of Spanish speakers
As salaamu alaykum,
Abu Sinan I understand what you are saying, I even wrote a post about it over on the HU blog a year or two ago. At the same time, though, I agree with anon that people don’t always realize they are doing it. I have a friend who lived in Iran for 8 years and when she came back she def. had a slight accent. After a few years of being back in the US it dissappeared, but I don’t think it was intentional. And I’ve certainly met non latinos married to Latinos who’ve done the same thing.
People are different, sometimes they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Also, I think women are different . As I mentioned before we are usually handed the task of passing on culture to the children and sometimes that means immersing ourselves in husband’s culture more than a man would need to. Right or wrong, women are expected to bend more.
Margari -
Your posts are very informative and clearly thought out. I am interested in the areas you have chosen to study. I would like to read some of your work. If you do decide to publish your book, please advertise in Atlanta or on this website. I appreciate the way you are demytifying this complex and layered subject.
Please do not get discouraged because you will make plenty of enemies - remember this saying, “YOU KILL A SLAVE WITH A SLAVE,” thus, people who look like you will be your most formidable critics as you continue with this great work.
Salaam
If you lived in a country for years with little or no use of your own native language I could understand the accent thing, but these are not the people I am talking about.
The one person in question had been in the Middle East a space of weeks, not years, and was already using a word like “ya’ani” in their typing, not their speech. Are we going to start talking about using pseudo accents even in people’s typing?
A word like “Ya’ani” is one that is engrained in a person’s speech patern since birth. That is why you will hear Arabs who have been here in the USA for a decade or more still using it, because it is that engrained.
If you listen to a native English speaker who also speaks fluent Arabic, and I know many, the vast majority of them will not use “ya’ani” they will use “um” or even “er”. Why? Because these are the expressions used by native English speakers and have been engrained in them since birth.
One lady I know, an American married to a Saudi diplomat, lived in the Riyadh area for some 20 years. She has the best command of Arabic that I have ever seen in a non native speaker of the language. She still uses “um” when she talks.
My point is that using “ya’ani” in spoken word, but ESPECIALLY in written word by someone who does not speak Arabic and has not spent much time in the Middle East is a completely affected way of speaking, it is not natural, it is fake.
I have no problem with people learning Arabic, but when someone writes or takes on stuff like this that is completely unnature it just seems so fake, so unreal.
I speak Arabic, I have traveled the Middle East. We speak Arabic almost completely at home. At my in laws, where we spend most of our free time, we speak almost nothing but Arabic. At work, to a large degree, the people I spend time with are Arabs and we speak Arabic. Yet I have never felt the need to try and supplant an engrained word like “um” with a word like “ya’ani”. If I am searching for a word or idea in Arabic I will always say “um” or “er”.
My wife is a native Arabic speaker, but also learned English starting from about age 5, which to most would allow a native level fluency.. So she speaks English and Arabic without an accent. When she speaks Arabic she says “ya’ani” and in English says “um”. The only person that would be completely normal to is a native speaker of both languages. To anyone else it is affected, especially in written word.
Imagine if I were sitting here typing and said something like this:
I was walking down the street, ya’ani, and didnt know where I was going.
Doesnt that look just stupid? Why would a native English speaker TYPE what is an engrained Arabic word in the middle of an English sentence? Especially when the same person does not even speak conversational Arabic? It is clearly an affected action.
The next logical question is then why does the person affect something like that? Is using “ya’ani” or a similar word in Arabic helping them learn Arabic? Does it help their deen?
Nope, I think it is done to try and make the person maybe feel more Arab, or feel closer to Arabs, but it has the opposite effect. Most Arabs I know would look at something like that and shake their head in the same way they do so to converts who refuse to eat American food, or those who wear robes because they think it makes them better Muslims.
Like the well known convert Jeffery Lang wrote in one of his books after being confronted by a convert you questioned his Deen because he wore a jacket and tie, he said something along the lines of “I didnt have the heart to tell this new brother that the Maghrebi (Morrocan) clothes the guy was wearing had little in common with the clothes that the Prophet would have worn in his life”.
These things say more about the self esteem and the need to belong by the person in question than they do about anything else.
It is sad that they do this, it is also sad that many converts feel they need to do it to be accepted by the wider Muslim community.
We, as American Muslims, need to forge our own identity, this does not mean trying to supplant our own identities and ideas to try and conform to another culture, whether that is lingusitically or in the way we dress.
People do this all the time…not just Muslims. I know people in my program who study British literature and suddenly they have that fake Madonna/Tina Turner thing going. Another cohort was dating someone from Ireland for a few years and she says ‘brilliant” all the time and when embarrassed says little quirky Irish things.
The difference with some Muslims is the religious justifications used.
From what I have seen, in many cases, what happens is that a person who is out of touch with their culture (or is unsure of it) marries someone whose culture is very overwhelming. The former may find their new spouse’s culture to be more “interesting” or exotic. But really, it’s just more concentrated. And so the dominant culture in that relationship wins out.