Germantown Masjid’s Official Stance
Below is the official letter from the administration of the Germantown Masjid in Philadelphia regarding the issues of the janazah (funeral) of Howard Cain
BISMILLAH IR RAHMAN IR RAHEEM
AS SALAAMU ALAYKUM WA RAHMATUALLAH WABARAKATHUHU
Dear Muslims,
Due to the recent events that have devastated the city of Philadelphia we here at Germantown Masjid feel that it would be most beneficial to the Muslim community and the city of Philadelphia to make an official statement clarifying our position on the recent events that have affected our city. The reason this clarification is being offered is to put to rest any concerns about or misunderstandings regarding the position taken by Germantown Masjid with respect to the recent armed robbery and subsequent janaaza (funeral prayer & burial services) of Howard Cain. Mr. Cain was killed by Philadelphia police on May 4, 2008, after an armed robbery which also resulted in the murder of Philadelphia police officer Stephen Liczbinski.
Due to violent nature of the actions which caused Mr. Cain’s death, the administration of Germantown Masjid decided that the most appropriate thing to due would be for the janaaza services not to be performed at Germantown Masjid. We decided that it was best that we distance ourselves, and all the Muslims that are a part of this community, from these acts of violence and we did not want any indication that we condoned this type of behavior. The actions of Mr. Cain, at the time of his death, and his cohorts are not Islamic behavior and should be condemned by any and every Muslim in Philadelphia, as well as around the world. These men dressed up like Muslim women, went in a crowded grocery store in broad daylight with weapons, with the intent of robbing a bank. Their actions, subsequently, lead to the murder of a Philadelphia police officer. All of these actions, by themselves, are deplorable by Islamic law.
After Mr. Cain was killed, during the robbery, his family contacted us to perform a proper Muslim burial service (janaaza). He was known to be a Muslim and certainly had the right of a Muslim burial. However, we declined to hold his janaaza at Germantown Masjid. We did, offer to talk the family thru all of the rights and rituals associated with a proper Muslim burial. However, we did not hear back from the family after we declined to conduct the burial services. The decision was not politically motivated but rather done to make it absolutely clear that we do not condone this type of behavior. The religious evidence supporting this decision is overwhelming and although we declined to perform the funeral prayer, we would like to say that Mr. Cain was washed, shrouded, prayed over and buried, therefore the obligation of a Muslim burial was fulfilled.
In support of our decision we offer the following:
The Prophet, sallalahu
Filed under: Black American Muslims
[...] Nelson has the official statement of the Germantown Masjid regarding its refusal to bury the cop-killer. [...]
This is an excellent press release for the public. I hope the Philly news spreads this more, God willing.
Well, I guess because they dont want the actions of the people in their community to be related to them in death, they will also not be giving prayers for people who commit suicide, people who die of drug overdoses, people who die of AIDS, people who die of lung cancer, ect.
Wow, I wonder if the the daughter of a local Imam who ran away to get married because her father wouldnt accept a convert as a son in law, would get prayers if she died?
What about Shi’ites who live in areas where there is no Sunni community? How about Sunnis in Shi’ite areas, no prayers for them?
This, at it’s base, violates a very important Islamic tenent, the idea that only the person responsible for a sin be held accountable for it. By saying that the actions of a person taint the whole community, they are really saying that the entire community would be held responsible for the sins of the person being buried.
We can come up with fatawa and hadith that support both sides of the situation.
At the end of the day burials are not really FOR the deceased, they are for the living. In this case the man’s family has been held responsible, and punished for his sins, and THAT is almost a big a sin as what he did!
PS……….I wonder if the choice would have been made as quick, and easily, if the brother who died was Pakistani or Egyptian? I would think not.
I saw this:
“The Prophet, sallalahu
Peace,
As far as I’m concerned ‘permissiblity’ was never the question in my mind. I think is just another poorly applied attempt at the law.
http://abulaith.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/african-american-muslim-emancipation/
Salaam alaikum Abu Sinan,
Basically, you’re saying that the imams are being judgmental. But someone brought this question up: what mosques prayed over the 19 hijackers? The answer would be: none. What would that have looked like? What would have been the repercussion for the community that did? Has anyone even thought about it, even tried? Has anyone lost any sleep wondering if we failed in our collective duty? Have you?
What would that have looked like? If we left our deen to “what would it look like” you can count out about 50% of Islamic practices.
We need to be more concerned about what GOD things and less concerned what people where think. What are we living for? This duniya or the afterlife?
What if someone decides not to pray over you because you are “too out spoken for a woman”? What about brothers at a mosque raise up too many issues about the treatment of convert brothers?
Where does it stop and who decides? Wow, you think the state of the Muslim world is unfair, imagine someone decided who does and who does not get prayed over.
You want the people in US mosques, run by those from overseas, to decide who gets prayed over?
You have more trust in our leaders than I do.
I am a white brother with tattoos who got into trouble as a teen. Are my children going to see me buried by Christians because Muslims think I am not fit?
No thanks.
Assalamu alaikum, I thought that the issue wasn’t whether or not he would be given a janaaza, but whether or not that leaders of this particular masjid would do it, and in so doing, “appear” as though they’re sanctioning this man’s behavior. No one is saying that this man shouldn’t be washed, pryaed over and buried, but whether or not the leaders of the community should do it, and whether the janaaza should be done at this particular masjid.
I can’t say I’m completely happy about this decision either, in my heart anyway, however, as I know nothing of this community and their dynamics, and as I can only imagine how painful this decision must have been for the leadership, I leave it for them to decide. Inshallah, this will not start a rash of “we won’t participate in the janaaza of this person because … “, it doesn’t seem to be anything like that, we’re not talking about someone who’s actions may have only affected himself, but someone who, by using Muslim women’s dress, could have potentially put a whole community in danger. This is a sad situion all around and I don’t think the leadership too any pleasure in coming to the decision that they did, and Allah knows best.
AbuSinan you don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to read, study, and learn more before you speak.
Daud,
And you are scholar? It is clear that this ruling at this mosque will be selectively enforced! The hadith talks about debtors, do you think they will be refused burial? You think the immigrant led mosques will refuse burial for those “brothers” who sell alcohol everyday and feed their families with haram money?
No, it will be used selectively against American converts, mostly black.
While I respect the feelings and decision of Imam El-Shabazz , I still struggle with this issue. I’m doing everything in my power understand his decision, but I don’t.
In lines 5-6 of paragraph, he said that they talked with the family about this issue, but they didn’t return his call. It wouldn’t surprise me if the calls weren’t returned for the reasons that are mentioned in his letter. Just imagine if the imam( or any other religious leader)came to the family and said ” We cannot bury your little boy because of what he did ” If that were the family’s reason for doing it, I cannot blame them for their lack of response.
I think about myself and people that I know who I can describe as far from perfect. They would be the kind of people that we’re ideal for any community. Nobody expected for them to turn rotten. Once in a while, I speak with a friend of mine who is a crack addict/prostitute( even as I speak,) she even has children who she has abandoned, but she ’s also trying to get help for her problem. She wasn’t brought up on the wrong side of the tracks. Her parents did everything they could to make sure that she and her younger sister,( Unfortunately ,who also became a teen mom ), to stray them away from trouble, but they still got into it.Nobody expected this or wanted to believe it.
When we found this out my mother got us and talked about her situation.. One of the things that she told us was that we not to overlook her because of it could happen to us. Yes, she shouldn’t have been a daredevil about it( She always did things on a dare), but she’s done it and is paying for it. My paternal grandmother would tell us not to speak with her because her activities.While I don’t walk the streets/do crack with her, we still talk. Besides,I don’t know why my grandmother would say that when there are some members in my family who some could consider to be “family embarrassments”.I myself, was a rebel who made bad grades and got into occasional after school fights.Otherwise, I never got into legal /life altering problems( eg teen pregnancy,drinking and drugs)
There are many Muslim men/women who have clean records, but there are also many others who don’t. I’ve been to masjids where I’ve heard of guys talk about their former lives of being drug dealers, alcoholics and and former gang bangers. All them became who they are because they wanted to be renewed. While it may not be Imam Shabazz intention of being standoffish, his decision may send the wrong message to them.
The fact of the matter is, the administration based their decision on an authentic text i.e. the hadith, while you people who disagree with them have nothing but your opinions. It is not permissible for a Muslim to turn away from a proof and go with opinions–regardless of who opinion it is. That is one of the leading causes of the humiliation that the Ummah faces today. Islaam is a deen of proofs, not opinions. The hadith clearly shows the leaders are allowed to refuse to pray over open sinners, which makes the obligation to do it on the rest of us. They followed the Sunnah, and many of you hate it…wallaahu musta’aan.
At Masjid As Sunna an Nabawiyyah, we have prayed our share of knuckleheads (may Allaah have Mercy everyone of them) and so has every other masjid in Philly. These criminals are the biggest obstacles to da’wah in the streets. Personally, I’m glad someone finally took a stand against them because they are ruining the Da’wah to Islaam. I only hope that they remain steadfast and consistent. This sends a message to all the Muslims: that they should fear an evil end, just like the Sahaba did (radiyyallaahu anhum).
I don’t know Abu Sinan, I feel like you are taking the analogies too far. I just have problems with your reasoning, it is a bit far fetched for me. Maybe you have some image of some authoritarian imams leaving the corpses of lax Muslims to rot in the streets as some example of fire brimstone type wrath. We clearly have not been reduced tot hat level yet. Its like you’re trying to appeal to everyone’s emotions to make your case. People have misgivings, and expressed them. But this was a right that this community and its leader hid. They did not have to take part in the funeral of someone who was killed in the act of theft and murder. Like the statement said, he was buried. If he wasn’t, then the burden would have been on all of us. And I’m sure that those who refused would have been the first to be held accountable on the Day of Judgement. But since he is already buried, I don’t see how he was done an injustice. I think that this community finally drew a line and found textual support within our body of Islamic Law. Ultimately, Allah is the best of judges.
Also, I really doubt that the Muslim liquor store owners’ families have janazas in the communities where they are selling liquor stores. Maybe their communities don’t know what they really do and if they do only a few leaders have taken a strong stance.
Daud,
I accept the legality of what they did, my problem is that the hadith used will not be equally applied to ALL members of the mosque.
If they decided to equally apply the said hadith to ALL members of the mosque, then it is something I would support 100%.
As the hadith says that it is proper not to pray over people who have committed a variety of sins, ie dying in debt, it should be equally applied.
It should not be used selectively, for a select group of people. We all know that this is probably the first, and last time this hadith will be used.
So there you have it, I am all for NOT burying this brother if it means that “Ahmad” down the street selling liquor to young kids will be refused just the same.
I support it if it means that “Saleh” who had a $1 million dollar loan with a high rate of interest whose foreclosure gave him a heart attck and killed him, will not get a burial either.
You cannot support the hadith’s use in one situation and then ignore it in another case. Either you use it or you dont. The selective use of it will certainly be towards American converts, and particularly black american converts.
Margari,
I am not appealing to people’s emotions, I am appealing to people’s sense of equality. The hadith used to justify their actions also justifies the same actions for other groups of people, many of which will be from the immigrant community.
If they are going to use this hadith to justify this one situation then they MUST follow it for the others.
The hadith says “the one who stole from the war-booty, the one who killed himself and the debtor”.
I just want to make sure that it is applied to those in our community who engage in riba and die in debt. That would be the fair and equitable way to do it.
If you excuse some and hold others accountable then you are being unjust and a hypocrite.
As to janazas in the communities where they sell the liquor, I guess that leads to a couple of issues. They are willing to sell liquor in the community, but unwilling to attend mosques there?
Besides which, I would have to argue with you on the idea in the first place. There are well known Muslims here in the Metro DC area who make money selling liquor in their establishments and their money is well taken in the mosque.
In one case I listened as an announcement was made concerning the amount of money one donor had made. Everyone who knows this person knows that they sell alcohol in their places of business, yet not only was that money taken by the mosque, the man himself was feted by the people running the mosque.
This was brought up to a person who worked at the mosque, he said that he couldnt be sure where the person got the money they donated, so the fact that their business consisted in part of selling alcohol was of no concern.
Shame!
As Salaamu Alaikum
From veiwing most of the comments, it looks like Muslims picking and choosing what they want to accept out of this Din.
It says in Qur’an wa Sunnah that there will be a time you will like what is disliked and dislike what is liked. And this is what I see.
NO WHERE has the administration of As Sunnah An Nabawiyyah said HE COULD NOT be washed, prayed over and buried as a muslim , they clearly stated as the leadership in the community they will not do this as in accordance to what our Prophet Muhhamed SalAllahu Alaihi wa Salaam has ordered the leaders of the Muslims to do, in terms of dealing with the criminal or open sinner at time of death.
They CLEARLY stated that Muslims are allowed to perform this man’s rights upon him. But as leaders in the community they are going by our Nabi’s salAllahu Alaihi wa Salaam example. The Qur’an clearly states in several Ayat to obey the command of the Prophet of Allah. For obeying him is obeying Allah. What really disappoints me further , May Allah Guide us Amin, is that there Muslims openly debating other Muslims in front of the Kufar. Subhan’Allah.
The Islamic funeral home in Philadelphia is able to perform all the rights to this man as needed. There are several ahadith that support the praying Janazah prayer and at the grave site.
What further disturbs me is that everyone is sooo worried about this brother’s rights, when he and his companions had NO REGARD for the rights and safety of other Muslims in the community, especially the woman Authu Billahi. I as a believing woman struggle daily with the non believers just because of how I dress. No one has taken in consideration the immediate harm they installed to the woman of Islam by their actions. What a form of oppression they put upon us because they wanted to commit a crime.
But you cry about HIS rights, what about OUR rights?
Our rights to feel safe, to be protected, to be respected. Those brothers took that from us when they did what they did under the disguise of wearing the clothing of a Muslim woman to commit a heinious act.
So I implore you to step back and evaluate the reprecussions these men put upon us as a community,the harm they instilled to our women.
The masjid was correct in their stance and have solid dalil to back them up. In the end the brother got his rights, meanwhile we yet again stand in defense of our religion over the stupidty and ignorance of a few who blantantly disobeyed the command of Allah.
Where exactly should you be angry at? :
1. The brothers not getting his rights from a masjid? After robbing a bank imitating the believing woman to commit a crime,and shooting a police officer and killing him.
or
2. The harm the brothers caused to our community and namely our women for their own actions and desires?
Really where to stand? With the criminal or the believer who has been harmed do to the actions of the criminal.
Before you scream FEAR ALLAH! Say it to yourself first. wa Allahu Musta’an
Samirah,
I understand where you are coming from. So you will support this mosque if they decide not to give prayers for those who have riba loans? You will support them for refusing to give prayers for those who benefit from the selling of pork and alcohol?
I am all for it as well.
What I am against is picking and choosing. If you are going to use this hadith to deny prayers for this man, you MUST use it to deny prayers for those in debt and the other things mentioned in the hadith.
You are right about picking and choosing and I am glad to see that the mosque has decided to implement this hadith.
I’d just be interested five years from now to check up on them again and see if they have applied it equally across the board.
Is this brother going to be the only person held up to this hadith? Are they going to forget about this hadith after the incident has died down?
Unfortunately, I dont think the message of the Prophet was what was being worried about here as much as it was the perception of non Muslims.
If they, in the future, use this hadith equally and we see that they have denied prayers for everyone who has a mortgage that is not Islamically based, I will be happy.
Somehow I think there are going to be more than a few who are going to be given prayers whilst their riba loans for houses and cars are still unpaid. Some of the funerals will be paid for by monies earned by the sale of alcohol and pork.
Either the hadith works for everyone or it should work for no one.
There is nothing worse than being a hypocrite in Islam (save for shirk) and if they bury even ONE Muslim in the future who has a house loan then they will have shown themselves to be hypocrites.
I feel that this was an extreme incident and the Mosque simply didn’t want this group of thugs to be associated with the mosque. I can’t blame them. We are all “guilty by association” when it comes to being in the Muslim community anyways, so they were rightfully concerned.
I think if these idiots did not go out of this world in such a crazy, shoot ‘em up, blaze of glory, that they would have done the janaza.
I don’t think people need to get to bent out of shape over this, I think it is an extremely isolated event.
Wa Laykum Salaam Sis SamirahbintJackieTodd,
Although I have stated my piece on the matter of “the janazah refusal” elsewhere and will no longer debate it I must say as one the first posters on the whole situation I stated
“the repercusions to the Sisters was my first thought”
http://tariqnelson.com/2008/05/08/philly-masjids-we-will-not-bury-this-muslim/#comment-27627
This was true a week ago and is true today. As expressed by others YOU, our sisters. wives and daughters are the ones on the front line and even as I feared I’ve gotten reports that the police are already haraasing sisters pulling them over and giving them tickets for trivial matters.
Police are given a bullet proof vest and guns on their first day knowing they may encounter a nut, while sisters don’t get boxing head gear, gloves and a groin guard on their wedding day expecting to fight their husbands.
Again as I have also posted else where
http://tariqnelson.com/2008/05/08/philly-masjids-we-will-not-bury-this-muslim/#comment-27643
A REAL statment would be to also distance Islam and ALL of our communities from the onslaught that some of our sisters face when they come home or distance Islam from the child deserters who are allowed to come to the masjid with impunity.
Isn’t child support a debt? Maybe Masjid As Sunna an Nabawiyyah does refuse the janazahs of debtors in the Masjid? Maybe, Masjid As Sunna an Nabawiyyah does have policy of exposing wife beaters? Maybe the police will ease off the community because of this annoucement?
Allah wrote for this to happen so there must be some good to come as after every difficulty there is ease. May this will be the turning point for cleaning up the masjids.
May Allah grant the indigenous Imams strength and courage in their efforts to protect our women and children HasbunAllah wa Ni
Did the brother kill himself or have a debt? NO! So stop the slow drag. Bait-and-switch. PERIOD! It is well know that German-Town (Masjid) GTM and the gangster Muslims of that area are engaged in and have been engaged in all types of ILLEGAL activity. All types, not to mention all the crimes they commit in the DEEN. Let me be the first to say, they aint consulted with no Scholar on this and if they did they did not let the brothers wife tell her story. SO WHERE IS THE TAPE? WHO DID YOU CALL? Qul hatu bur haa na kum in kum tum Sadeeqeen. NOPE. Well known fact that GTM will call a so-called scholar and say what if a person does x,y,z,…. And then come and say the scholar Fulaan said x,y,z about a specific person. So lets forget the published statement of GTM and get to the nutts and bolts of the issue. Where is your proof that your correct. We are ignorant so we leave it up to you smart people at GTM to explain in detail to the laymen why you violated this brothers rights or let us come back here after your explanation and make a public recantation of our ignorant position. The scenery has changed but the same ole ghost busters slime still runs under their street. All that the “mgr” of GTM presented has nothing to do with the current situation at all. IT is a PURE Bait and Switch move on behalf of some cowards. Just use the Hadeeth of Amr ibn Yaseer and say you were scared and then establish the fact that you did not give the brother his haqq due to your being duly scared. Period!!!!! Then we will begin to respect you again. Right now you are liars and magicians. The move GTM has made all along is acting as the one-eyed man in the land of the blind. Not only are you not King but your game is soooooooooo weak. Just like the last comment about coming to Philly, I mean Filthy, and setting the people straight. So is this a call out after what? We know yall Philly boys are tough…… Gun carrying, knife carrying and oh yes every body is a boxer and martial artist etc….. But scared to practice a hadeeth on a Muslims rights due HEAT. Just get out the kitchen and let the Men run the Masjid.
la ilaha ilAllah….Wow @straight out lies……If you are Muslim where is your adhab? Are we reading the same article? Or have you been privy to an article from GTM noone else has seen. Because your statement not even comes close to addressing what was written, totaly off topic.
You cry about haqq where is your dalil please all I see is oppinions and no dalil from the people speaking ignorantly and out of turn.
Shaytan clearly has his foot in this Authu Bilahi minash shaytaan ir rajim.
Honestly the above response from you shows how truly ignorant we can be. May Allah guide us. Amin
And you claim to allow Men to run the masjid. La if they respond anywhere remotely how you have I wouldnt want YOUR version of a man run a ice cream truck let alone a Masjid. You definately have not approached this subject with Hikmah and adhab.
Take a breath step back reread your words and please clarify to me where you have responded in anyway according to the sunnah.
Ask Allah to open your eyes and clear away the obvious anger you have inside you.
As of now what is done is done it is in Allah’s hands Straight out lies. May Allah Guide us and Keep us on Siraatul Mustaqeem amin.
For Allah is the Best of Planners and only He can Rectify the Affairs of the Muslim.
People need to watch their tongues, seriously, totally sickening some of the responses on this. Everyone wants to be a armchair scholar. If you dont believe this Masjid did the correct thing then do what Allah Commands you to do. Take it to the people of knowledge let them tell you what the correct position is. But make sure you tell the Haqq to them not your version but what happened and what the brother did before he was killed.
wa Allahu Musta’an
It isnt about the mosque doing the right thing, it is about them doing it consistantly.
If they use this hadith for this one brother, they had better use it for all brothers.
It is a sad day when even the leaders of a mosque will selectively pick and use hadith to target a single individual in a single case.
If they are going to enforce this hadith, it needs to be for everyone, all of the time.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum,
Since this brother was washed & prayed over, I don’t think that the location was of major consequence except that having it outside of the masjid probably caused less people to have prayed over him. I mean, does the janazah have to be in a masjid like a church funeral service?
As much as I believe that killing a person is the second greatest crime in Islam after polytheism, I do think that he deserved to have been prayed over in the masjid. I’m not sure where we are getting this concept that a Muslim needs “membership” in a particular masjid to be prayed over.
If the Imam refused to pray over the man in the masjid for the sole purpose of how it would be perceived by the public, which is how it appears to me, then I think that a niyah check is in order. Was the refusal for PR purposes or because it was believed that it was a violation of Islamic law or its spirit?
The most heinous criminals in American history haven’t been refused funerals at churches. Lee Harvery Oswald was not denied a funeral even after most of the world assumed that he was the sole killer of JFK. The 19 hijackers, btw, didn’t have a funeral probably because of their bodies weren’t found. Someone would have prayed even over them.
The brother who committed the killing of the cop as well as the Imam who didn’t allow the janazah to be in the masjid will both answer to ALLAH for everything just as we all will.
May ALLAH forgive us all.
Wassalaam
Was-Salaamu alaykum,
Well what I wrote I provided the Dalil for GTM to stand up and tell the truth. Just read it. (Just say “We are Cowards”. Now just for the record I sent out a challenge to provide my ignorant self the proof that those hadeeth about killing oneself or a debt apply to this situation. That
Dalil on the practice of performing Janazah Salah outside the masjid.
Location of Prayer:
Inside the Masjid - The common practice today of holding the funeral prayer inside the masjid is based on the occasional practice of the Prophet sallall
Dalil taken from enjoining the good forbidding the wrong by Ibn Taimiyyah. And on that note I say Khalas the dalil is clear about supporting the Imam and his decision.
Khalas …wa alaikum as salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Masha’Allah everyone is providing all the quotes from the text. You know like when we read Usool us Sunnah, how is it that we apply those text to the common everyday Muslim by the common everyday Muslim??? No doubt the Haqq is the Haqq. But is it applied in the manner in which it is being applied? Yes, no doubt the Prophet sallalahu alayhi was sallaam did not pray over the man with a debt. No doubt! So every Muslim that owes money on his phone, light, cable, gas, etc will now not be prayed over by the administrators of the varies Islamic Centers? Those are also debts… right? Or the Brother that does not complete his Mahr to his wife…. Debt…right? So no we refuse to wash and pray over him. What about the Student loan prior to Islam?
How come we take stuff so literal that applies to the rights of others yet don
@ Straight-out-Lies
Wa Laykum Salaam, You make some very good points (particularly about the various debtors), however at least to me the tone of your posts under cut your points
The best is not the best wrestler, but the one who can control their anger.
Eventhough most members of Masjid As Sunna an Nabawiyyah may disapprove of a dikr bead carrier such as myself, I have no doubt that there are indeed many good well meaning brothers who attend that majsid.
Please do not used this situation to attack the Masjid as your generalizations also attacks the good as well as those guilty. How do you know that the Imam isn’t reprimaning and admonishing these brothers after fajr for their unIslamic behavior?
Look the Muslims questioned the leadership’s actions and the leadership responded by suppying their rationel based on qiyas, which is Islamically legitimate.
Will everyone agree NO, but as they are the leaders there on the ground in Philly so their decision has to be respected. I for one am glad they did not seek to obtain a fatwa from overseas, in my humble lay oppinion we as indigenous Muslims have scholars from around the country that are one to two decades beyond needing fatwas from overseas (if there was ever a need).
Alhamdulillah, as their actions proved they have reserved the rights of the leaders and scholars for themselves. I am glad to see the leadership of this Masjid count themselves among the leaders and scholars, because for a number of years I heard the mantra that there were no Amirs and Ulema in the West, so alhamdulillah.
This whole situation the incident itself and the responses shows the need for Muslims to be attached to a particular community and leadership without being called hizbi. People want to do whatever they want to do, all sorts of rogue actions without accountability, that is until there are problems, then they are a part of a community.
My suggestion to bring about about justice is to do so in the community to which you belong. Thats where it starts where people give their love, life, wealth and abilies to make their communities better and just.
Justice for everyone equally (including criminals), particularly the women and children who are the weakest. The point you make about marriges should be addressed, but this should be internal to the Masjid.
Finally as I understand it, isn’t the building that was donated to the community by a now deceased brother, currently languishing? Perhaps all those concerned about justice in this community could help to support the establishment of an Islamic school, so that the children can be properly educated and when they grow up they won’t need to commit crimes to sustain themselves?
Good Post that was sent to me. However, I was not upset nor anything else. I just wanted to use the same tone that GTM uses with people. Thats all.
As for my making general statements that could be applied unjustly to the “other” brother and sisters in the community, I said,
“This applies to only the ones that are guilty of these things. All the righteous Muslims over their ( corrected there) and Elsewhere, I make Taubah to Allah and await on the clarity.”
So I say again.. the shoe was not for everyone. And may Allah guide us all.
Ameen.
was-Salaam
Just for the record Ibn Hazm in his book Al-Muhalla, did infact state that the not praying over the one in which committed some (major) crime was for the Imam Ratib (appointed Imam), and not for anyone else as a lesson to the people. Not the Masjid, Islamic Center etc., just the Imam. So there is/was no reason to totally boycott this brother by GTM other than what has proceeded. Allahul Musta’aan
Was-Salaam
Just for the record, the same position that you state (i.e. you as in Mr. Straight-out-lies) is the position of all four imams with regard to morally irresponsible, and especially violent criminals that died in the act.
The statements of Ibn Hazm do not hold precedent over all the other Imams that came before him and after him. That said, if you were to reference the books of the scholars you would find that they say the Imam AND/OR those people of virtue and distinguished nature should not pray over such people.
Additionally no where is it mentioned that the Janazah should be held in the masjid for any Muslim, in fact many scholars disliked that the Janazah prayer be prayed in the Masjid in the first place, based on a hadith on the subject.
Please brother spend your time learning instead of talking and you would do all of us a favor
As-salaamu alaykum,
I think the rants from “Abu Sinan” demonstrate a fair degree of naivety and a clear lack of understanding of the seriousness of this crime.
It was not a mere case of “burying a criminal”, this brother (rahimahullaah) committed the following:
1. He intentionally dressed up as a Muslim woman, in full niqaab and jilbaab, while committing his crime. This in itself is a cowardly act which is not becoming of a Muslim, furthermore the repercussions of this upon other Muslim women are serious, there is even talk of banning the niqaab due to this, if you are aware.
2. Crimes were committed, whilst in the attire of the Muslim woman - so they used Islam as a means for the crime.
3. A Police officer was killed while trying to apprehend this individual and within the current situation the Muslims are going through enough without having to be seen to condone the actions of cop-killers.
Therefore, the decision by Germantown Masjid was the correct one, not only do they have the texts on their side but also as they are a well-known community known to be strict adherents of the Qur’an, Sunnah and way of the Salaf, and are respected due to this, this sends out a clear message to anyone who even thinks that they commit their crimes and justify them with Islam.
So there mere rants of “Abu Sinan” I feel should be thrown against the wall as he evidently has little experience of being part of an active, popular and focal Muslim community like Germantown.
AbdulHaq
Bismillaah
As salaamu ‘alaykum
Abu Sinan have u ever been to Germantown Masjid? Majority of the muslims there are AFRICAN AMERICAN. So your statement about it would be selective and if it was indo/paks it would be different is thrown out the window. I think u need to learn ur deen. A hadeeth was given and you take it upon yourself to make your own sharh to it. Fear Allaah. And learn your basics of Islaam like the waajibaat of salaah and the ahkaam.
So, by way of the list included in their reliance on “fatawa demonstrating the permissability” of their decision, they too would have refused me had I come to them for help when my husband died. Elhamdulillah that I did not because in the state that I was in I can not imagine what it would have done to my faith and my ability to even just get by, at least for that time. Widowhood is … you can not imagine the vulnerability until you’ve been there.
I don’t care what Howard Cain did. He made decisions that created a lot of despair and will answer for that in whatever way is just. But to place political expediency and appearances above the most immediate needs of a widow, and as I understand it unborn now-orphan, coming to them for help, and to justify it with a Q&A and a statement to the effect that “well, someone else took care of it, so it’s all good” … all I can say is may Allah subhana wa ta’ala forgive them, but I can hope call them to answer as well. Burials are not only about the dead.
As salaamu ‘alaykum
Well said akhee Abdul Haq may Allaah reward you abundantly aameen. ALlaah says in the Qur’aan ask the ppl of knowledge if u do not know. And abu sinan and straight out lies(what a username) need to implement this and ask the ppl of knowledge if they do not know since they have all the kalaam. Instead of ranting and raving here do us all a favour and firstly benefit yourself by seeking ‘ilm and then bring the daleel to us. not your hawaa
was salaamu ‘alaykum
The Masjid is not responsible for burying the dead. The families are the ones who are actually responsible.
http://www.nbc10.com/slideshow/16194712/detail.html?taf=phi
As salaamu alaikum I think it be best we all hold our comments till we see what the shayook have said about this matter. Also there seems not to be a issue on the descion but rather some displayed anger at MASJID SUNNATUL NABAWEEYAH. The sad thing is in all of this confussion how many of the na sayers have made continuous du’a for Mr. Cain? Who has gotten up in the middle of the night to pray and ask for is forgiveness if you feel so bad, who in there selves see so much injustice have made du’a for the imaams who deal with marriages, classes, khutbah, burials, sicknesses, having to study , who are under paid, unappreciated, who dont sleep at night because of their phones ringing , hearing all of the sins and nasty things people have done, the back biting the slanders, they have their onw families , own problems, how do we look at the administrations who have to clean behind neglagent muslims, and as far as we havent thought sins have their levels, and we have to look at the harm and level of the harm as far as a action is taken by it. The one who dies in debt we can pay his debt… yes or no, who would give the blood money, did any one offer that oh yeah I forgot because we are not in dar Islam certain things cant be practiced. There is a server lack of understanding and a lack of sense of urgancy over this matter. We need to grow up and appreciate that this issue should move on to want to die in a state of Islamiya. How many of use thought about our own demise and how would be at our ending. Do we remember those narration about death, have we taken account before we are taken to account, and then some of the examples … if some one dies of say “Aids” that doesnt involve sin, and as for debt and even being moved to death there are conditions to that. None the less there has been much text given to suppor the descion how ever I havent seen a harf to support going against it but feelings. I am sorry to see that the masjid is to be blamed when the people can just simply wash him and move on. You feel for him want honor for him …MAKE DUA, have you forgotten this tool, and have you oh those who feel that he was wronged make du’a, come to the admin in private with your daleel, help them where was ad deen al naseeha .. in this case, where was advising in private done. How is it when we critisize the leaders and take on the character of the Khawaarij, it is plain to see that if any thing that people have a sore spot for the salafiyoon and not just the masjid, I am sure if it happened in another masjid that is Salafi then the people would go foolish. How about all of the good things that come from the masjid and how many have spoke about the long term marriages, and the many people who have been guided aright from these institutions, how many tapes, books, clearifications, advices have been given from those masjid and the people. Where is the support for advice… ? none the less you will see that this is a sickness that many have suffered and many will still suffer till the day of qiyyama we dont truly believe because we dont want for our brothers what we want for ourselves. If you want to die with honor you have to live honorably insha Allah we will await the descion over this issue from the shayook and people will have their hearts calmed
was salaamu alaikum
Actually the scholars in Philly have spoken and pulled the cover off the truth http://www.nuruzzamaaninstitute.org/Page_3.html
I pray for ALL the Imams here in America who are trying to guide people to the truth even those who may error at times as none of us are perfect
Asalam-alaikum,
Thanks for posting this. I think it is helpful to learn more about where the mosque leadership was coming from. At the same time, I’m not totally convinced that they should interpret themselves as being in the role of the the “elite” (the khalifah, the mayor, etc.) rather than “ordinary people”. I also wonder about whether local conditions should be taken into account. I mean, Bin Baaz and Ibn Taymiyah gave their fatwas in Muslim-majority societies and in that situation, it is easy to argue that if one group doesn’t pray janazah then at least someone else would take care of it. I’m not sure the same thing is true to the same degree in the US. If the local mosque doesn’t take care of it, it will be much harder to find someone else to take their place.
The brother’s laid around for 5 days before someone buried him. NO MASJID IN PHILLY WOULD TOUCH HIM, SO STOP SWEATING THE G-TOWN MASJID’S ADMINISTRATION. EVERYONE TOOK THE SAME STANCE IN PHILLY. NOTICE MASJID AS SUNNAH NABAIYYAH IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAME WITH A PROOF. EVERYONE ELSE JUST JUMPED ON THE BANDWAGON, AS USUAL.
To: Daud
G-Town set a precedent they move they pulled. That’s the problem I had with the ‘decision’. Perhaps that position/opinion is applicable in a land that has a large Muslim population with burial grounds and people that will bury the person when the ‘leadership’ decides not to pray over the dead. How it plays out here is that when the leadership denies such a thing that means that the Masjid nor its member be involved. Unfortunately that’s part of the American Muslim landscape.
Effectively by G-Town taking the stance it did then how would the other masajid look? The other masajid would look ’suspect’ by taking on the responbility of burying the brother. Again, when a ‘leader’ takes such a stance that means the masjid and the members.
Masha Allah, the brother was washed and buried but I standby my position that G-Town choosing to make taqleed of Sh. Bin Baz’s fatwa is a poor shot at applying the law under the circumstances.
To Abu Sinan’s point, will this new standard of distancing and the ‘leadership’ refusing to pray over sinners be applied equally? What about the slanderers, scandal mongers and backbitters? Since we are going to make a hodge-podge of the law and its application what will be the ‘distancing strategy’ for the other sinners in the community? Or is it only for the ‘media-sinners’ that we will apply such distancing strategies.
Imam Luqman has been implicated by Daniel Pipes and crew so wil we ‘distance’ ourselves from him and Universal Group when the media heat gets too hot?
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
Many people have mentioned the right that the brother (rahimahullah) has to a janazah, and that his right was violated by Germantown Masjid (GM). This is a serious accusation that needs to be further investigated by everyone making this claim.
Let’s consider the following: There is consensus amongst the scholars of Islam that burying a Muslim is a communal obligation (fard kifiyah).
Ibn al-Mundhir (d. 318 AH) states in al-Ijmaa’ (p. 51), “The scholars unanimously agree that burying the dead is obligatory and binding upon the people. It’s not permissible for them to abandon it while having the ability to do so. Whoever performs the duty relieves the remaining Muslims of the obligation.”
??????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???????. ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????????
This means that the act itself is not obligatory upon any individual person, masjid, or establishment unless they are the only ones capable of performing the act.
The question should not be whether or not the brother has a right to be buried, the question is WHO HAS TO FULFILL THAT RIGHT? Many people writing on this and other blogs seem to believe that Germantown Masjid is responsible for fulfilling that right. However, there are approximately 40 masjids in Philadelphia, many of them who have performed janazahs in the past. Since burying the deceased is a communal obligation, what is it that makes it obligatory upon Germantown Masjid specifically?
Those who claim that GM has violated the brother’s rights are implying that the burial of this brother was obligatory upon them. The burden of proof according to Islamic law is upon the one who makes the claim. They are ignoring the consensus of the scholars and somehow making this obligatory upon GM. What is the proof for this?
Some have claimed that he should have been given the janazah by the brothers he prayed with and the Masjid he gave sadaqa to; hence the obligation was GM’s to fulfill. Even if he did pray at GM (he was actually known to pray at another masjid in the city), is this sufficient as evidence to override the consensus of the salaf?
The reality is that no one, up until now, has mentioned any textual evidence indicating that it was obligatory upon GM to perform the janazah, especially with 40 other masjids in the city.
Could GM have handled the situation differently, have a few brothers pray over him elsewhere and ensure he got his rights? Maybe, and Allah knows best. The reality is that many of us who are not involved in urban communities don’t know what goes into burying someone by way of human and financial resources.
My only point is that to claim that GM violated the brother’s rights is a serious accusation. Those making it should really think about their meeting with Allah.
@ Daud
ASA, Are you saying Muslims are all one body and all the Masajid in Philly operate upon knowledge and all should be held accountable equally?
Although we as Muslims need to move beyond the past let’s not act like there’s no reason for the acrimony some are showing toward GM.
When you run around trying to “Deebo” masajid people are not going to like you. Nothing happens in a valcuum, so don’t feign ignorance you know why people are “sweating” the administration of this masjid as you say.
What about his aqeedah? What about his minhaj? What about the dawah he ascribed to?
Are you saying that anyone that says the shahada is Muslim and his aqeedah and his minhaj should not separate Muslims from the general body of Muslims? If you are then alhamdulillah!!!
It’s interesting there is no mention of these things in the official letter, the brother is simply Muslim — as it should be. A Muslim simply being Muslim is a great place to start for unity. How wonderful would it be if this was always the case? Imagine if the communities could come together upon unity each recognizing one another as Muslims upon truth.
Another good opportunity for unity is to provide the widow (with child) some assistance. I am not scholar so there some distancing that should be aimed at her as well? Do you know Daud?
@ Abu Jameel Abdul Qaadir
ASA, you have some interesting points, what is your definition of leader? I am a laymen so perhaps I’m misunderstanding your post you wrote “come to the admin in private with your daleel, help them where was ad deen al naseeha .. in this case, where was advising in private done” Are you implying that a person takes on on the character of the Khawaarij when they publicly criticize American Muslim leaders? Are you saying someone must advise a leader in private before going public? Please advise.
@ anyone
Interestingly in the terms khaleefah, ruler, judges, president and mayor are all mentioned together, perhaps someone can enlighten me how and when did George ibn George and Nutter come to constitute leadership for the Muslims?
Word of the day — pusillanimous
Again, if the decision was motivated by public relations purposes, it was clearly out of order. Not burying him in the masjid didn’t please the enemies of Islam one bit, so let’s not get it twisted and think that some PR points were gained.
I hope that none of us who are posting on this and other blogs that have so much certitude that the GM masjid was correct are tested with a similar situation like if one of our Muslim relatives overdoses on heroin, gets killed at the liquor, or shot by the spouse of the person that they had an affair with. One could clearly argue that they died while committing an act of kufr and could be barred from having their janazah in the masjid, right? I wonder how many opinions of bin Baz (RH) would we reference then.
Regarding with what Abu Usamah eluded to, where are we getting this from that a leader cannot be challenged in public about potential wrong-doing and that he can only be questioned in private? Wasn’t Umar bin Al-Khattab (RA) questioned publically while he was khailfah? Did not the Prophet (SAAS) say that the best jihad is speaking truth to a wrong-doing leader? What if he cannot get access to the leader privately? Should one just hold their breathe? Let’s get for real.
@ dawud walid
“One could clearly argue that they died while committing an act of kufr and could be barred from having their janazah in the masjid, right?”
No, there was a crime but the crimes do not constitute kufr unless (as I understand it) they believe that stealing etc is lawful or disagree with the shariah in this regard. What was done was an act of fisq (gross crime) and not necessarily one of kufr.
..and Allah (swt) knows best…
Wa alaikum salaam, no one who has spoken against the position of the Musaajids have given one ayyat or a hadeeth, athar or the like to support their emotions. We aren
I also wanted to add, public relations is also a part of our dawa(given money , visiting the kufar in their times of sadness and sickness, offering help and food, being kind to your neighborsetc) There are times in which as we can recall that the messenger of Allah salaahu alaihi was salaam would even visit the people who attempted to harm him (re: his neighbor who used to through trash in front of his apartment).
We do seek to protect the face of islam from harm, either it be by muslims and or non muslims. We censure and correct the actions of the kufar and misconceptions how ever when it comes to the misgivens of our companions we dont say jack. PR actions are speaking openly against terrorism who would not agree, should we have remained silent after 911. How many people here have been guilty of the campaign that Usama bin Laden didnt have any thing to do with the Hijacking of those planes? Blaming or saying this was a conspiracy and the Masad was the head of this and that even so .. if this is the case do we not still speak ill about actions attributed to islam ? How many people have found themselves defending Islam in mondane issues like, “oh I have a boy friend thats muslim” or job related issues when some one goes to shake the hand of a woman and he/she says I dont shake hands and the reply to the muslim is ” fulan wa fulana shakes hands” we have many PR things we do on a constant. Much of this is tail carrying none of which if any have sought any real answers the sad thing about blogs and blogging and may Allah remove me far away from doing this again. Giving opinions and speaking about that which we are not percise about may lead us to the fire, it is a way of expression an opinion and misguidence just as well as guidence. Blogs give a way for every one to express what he or she may “think” and this is what lead shaytan to his evil and demise. How much have we “thought” over the ayats of Allah when he may mention and “and this is a clear evidence for those who reflect, think, rememeber…” I ask our Lord Rabil Alameen causes us all to be patient in the turbalent time as the muslim are in a time of confussion and misgivens. I ask that all of us who seek jennah be guided upon this path which is accompanied with many other paths and its heads are shaytans. I pray that this issue of blogging doesnt destroy us and that we dont lose focus on the fact we are lowly beings who when our bones are ashes we would be forgotten and be mere memories and the only thing we will be remembered by is our words and we take to our grave our actions. Becareful Amatullah wa Abdullah, being excessive in given your opinon can be harmful to your soul, silence is better and not being known is more pescious.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum,
I agree that public relations is needed and is a form of da’wah. I deal with PR on a daily basis; however, I’m not for compromising matters of `ibaadaat for PR.
My contention is not a matter of whether the decision was right according to a fiqhi perspective, as brothers constantly ascert when they state that they haven’t seen one ayah or hadeeth quoted for those who question the decision.
My contention is the intention/motive of the decision itself, which is a spiritual matter. And I question the motive based upon the circumstances and what was officially stated and direct quotes from the news.
The most mashhoor hadeeth, which is mutawattir and agreed upon by all Muslims (Sunni, Ibadi, Shi’is) is:
???? ??????? ???????
“Actions are but by their intentions…”
If the motive for not allowing the janazah was primarily for the pleasure of ALLAH (SWT) then that’s one thing. But if the blocking of the janazah was done PRIMARILY to save face and as a PR matter to curry favor with those who don’t respect Muslims anyway then that’s incorrect.
WALLAHU `Alim.
Wassalaam.
Na’m Akhi so I ask you have you opened the chest of the Imaam of Sunnah tul Nabaweeyah, and many of the things the people have mentioned prior to Taalib coming to Masjid Sunnah tul Nabaweeya then you cant hold that over his head. Rather not one man can say what a mans intentions are except he lays a precedence or pattern. Like a tree is just a tree till we see the produce of it, apple, cherry, peacan etc. I havent known from this man actions like this and I have known of him and his family when I lived in Maryland, and I am an associate of his step son. Can any one say that they have pray with Taalib, done business with him, traveled with him. Who can establish a precedence in which one can claim insight on his thinking to show malice?
A Salaamu Alaikum,
Subhanallah. What we are seeing is why it is so critical to learn and follow qualified TRADITIONAL Islamic scholarship. When people start using their interpretations of ahadith (and for the sake of argument let’s assume the above hadith are even translated properly) for fiqh rulings you have a huge problem. As Muslims we follow FIQH for legal rulings not what you interpret from a hadith. Let me repeat…we follow fiqh. We have a Shariah. What’s the point of Islamic Jurisprudence if anybody can just crack open a hadith or reference ’scholars’ that have not been taught in accordance with the Sunnah? In Islam you learn from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned all the way back to the Prophet, sallahu alaihi wa salaam…i.e. isnad. Just like we have hadiths that are related on the authority of so and so (with the chain) you also have a chain of scholarship. We don’t do the ’self taught’ thing. You get into serious trouble that way. Do you go to a medical doctor that is ’self taught’?
Even if we use the above where is the evidence that the fard kifaya (communal obligation) is absolved for a janaza of an alleged Muslim criminal? I see alot about suicide but nothing about being killed in a shootout while commiting a crime. And that’s me already convicting him. It’s not like he had a trial. And don’t get me wrong. I’m not defending the actions of these individuals. And in fact it is my belief that they were in fact guilty and it’s even more problematic that they put our sisters in harms way as a result of the “disguise” they chose to wear. But we are talking fiqh not my personal opinion. We are talking jurisprudence not a hadith about somebody eating too much and we somehow juxtapose that to suicide and this incident. When did the deceased commit suicide anyway? He was killed in a shootout. So even if we were to take the above as evidence, which you would not do as we follow fiqh not an interpretation of a hadith for legal matters, it’s still wrong!
And while I believe they were guilty as the day is long as a Qadi I would have to actually go through the evidence of the case. You still get due process in our deen. So this masjid and others based their decision without even going through a thorough investigation of the alleged crime. I mean even in Islam where theft is haram there are exceptions to the harshest of punishment if you are stealing to provide food for your family as opposed to material desire. It’s still wrong but this is in our fiqh. What investigation was done? This is serious. You are talking about someone’s burial AND a fard kifaya that has consequences of COMMUNAL SIN.
When we don’t follow traditional scholarship we open ourselves up to these landmines. We act like we are the first people in the history of Islam to have to deal with the issue of a janaza for a criminal Muslim. What does the Shariah say? What does the Maliki or Shafi
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
“O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion; indeed some suspicion is sinful” (49:12)
The Messenger (sallahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the worst of false tales” (Bukhari and Muslim)
Dawud Walid said: “And I question the motive based upon the [1] circumstances and [2] what was officially stated and [3] direct quotes from the news”
As salamu alaykum
With all due respect brother Dawud, you apparently do not know these brothers. Nor do you seem to be too familiar with things you indicate are causing you to question their motive.
(1) “Circumstances” The brothers at GM were asked on Sunday if they would perform the services. They declined shortly thereafter before the media even got involved (i.e. before they came to question anyone at Germantown Masjid). See #3. So if the decision was made before the media even got hold of it, how could it have been done “as a PR matter to curry favor with those who don
@ “Brother Dash”
As-salaamu alaykum,
Judging from your website “brother Dash” then with all due respect you are not really in the position to all of a sudden present such a pompous display of “adherence to traditional Islamic fiqh and shariah”?! So since when has performing poetry clean shaven and musbil had any connection to “traditional and classical Islamic fiqh and scholarship”?!
You seem to have a plethora of misconceptions about the da’wah Salafiyyah which you may have gained from Abdullah bin Hamid Ali, Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir and Abu Alfa Muhammad bin Fareed Shareef, but instead of going into a rant by accusing the Salafis of not following scholars and going straight to the hadeeth to derive rulings - you should maybe actually ask the Salafis what their methodology is.
Brother Dash said:
“You wanna reference scholars that study from institutions not based on the traditional model of Islamic learning fine.”
This is nonsense and the usual argumentum ad nauseum that we hear from the so-called “traditional Islam” movement. These institutions that “Brother Dash” is insinuating do study in a traditional and classical way, but here is not the time to go deep into this matter. “Dash” also insinuated that the Salafis follow “self taught individuals” and this is another blatant misconception and the biography of the salafis scholars indicate this claim of “Dash” to be false, see for example: http://www.al-ibaanah.com/biography_era.php?BID=16
So to simplistically claim that the dearth of “traditional scholarship” (as defined and moulded by Hamza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir, Abdullah bin Hamid Ali and others) is a cuase for these controversies is utter folly. Furthermore, “Brother Dash” has attempted to claim that Germantown Masjid did not investigate the matter when this is false as their official statement contains much in the way of a study of how such matters have been dealt with from the ahadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah. So “Brother Dash”, don’t let your partisanship cloud your judgement, your flagrant disregard of the authentic hadeeth is also a cause for concern.
“Brother Dash” what you have presented here is nothing but a red herring, based on your own partisan adherence to madhdhab parochialism you have entered into this issue in order to attack Germantown Masjid (a Salafi masjid) yet you have said absolutely nothing about the other 50 or so masaajid who also took the same stance and do not follow the Salafi manhaj and some of whom in fact follow your very own methodology!
So Ahl us-Sunnah would rather follow the hadeeth than the “boom chicka boom” anyday!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2CqRfrzj2P8&feature=related
BTW brother Dawud,
Ahlus Sunnah also accept the hadeeth that is hasan, and there are cases where a weak hadeeth may be used as supporting evidence. However, this thread is not for the purpose of discussing mustalah al-hadeeth in detail. Those who have interest can go back to the books of the scholars.
Brother Dawud, you also state, “I agree that public relations is needed and is a form of da
Judging from your website
Part 2
So to simplistically claim that the dearth of
[...] After the “thugs in niqaab” post on MM, it is only fair to point to Germantown Masjid’s official praiseworthy stance. [...]
The audacity of some people to talk about the religion of Allaah without knowledge and based on their opinion is amazing! I also wonder at the purpose of posting criticisms of the masjid on this blog as opposed to e-mailing them and giving them their haqq of naseeha.
As Salaamu Alaykum,
I actually read this post, when it was originally posted, however, i decided to refrain from my comment until i think about it a bit longer. I have read the report on the action of the deceased brother, and i have read the letter of the masjid, and talked to some of the ppl. I have to say, after relocating to philadelphia from the south, and observing the character of some of the people, i have to agree with the masjid.
Their choice was not so much as a Figh issue, as it was using Hikmaah, maa shaa Allaah. I think the people assumed that Germantown Masjid didn’t feel as though he deserved a Janazza, but actually Germantown Masjid was just saying , “it won’t happen here!” I understand the wisdom used for this decision.
One thing i am alittle worried about , is that i see alot of OPEN HARAAM in philadelphia. and i don’t see much (ENJOINING THE GOOD AND FORBIDDING THE EVIL)
That scares me alittle , especially when this city is swarming with so much potential for knowledge. Men and Women here, spend too much time with UNBENEFICIAL KNOWLEDGE, instead of learning the basic rights , that a muslim has over one another.
I have seen sisters try to harm their co wives, and the men do nothing about it: i have seen sisters fighting, and their men do nothing about it: Men harming each other, and the men do nothing about it: Wives cursing their husbands out infront of other muslims, and Husbands beating their wives, and the men do nothing about it.
Men are the MAINTAINERS of the Masjid, and the Community. You all need to fear Allaah, accordingly, and if you would NIP this behavior in the BUD, you wouldn’t have to wait until someone DIES TO TRY TO CORRECT THEIR BEHAVIOR!!!!!!!!
We need to ask ourselves, if we are doing our part, in creating a COMMUNITY BASED ON THE CHARACTER, ACTIONS, MERCY, WISDOM, OF THE PROPHET(sallalahu alayhe was salaam) AND THE COMPANIONS?
STOP LETTING THESE SISTERS ATTACK THEIR CO WIVES, BROTHERS…….STAND UP AND TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR HOMES.
IF WE WANT ALLAAH TO BLESS THIS COMMUNITY, WE HAVE TO START FEARING HIM ACCORDINGLY.
START HAVING MORE CLASSES ON MANNERS, AND ADAB , AND LOVING EACH OTHER FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAAH.
HAVE MORE CHARACTER BULDING CLASSES, INSTEAD OF KNOWLEDGE ABOVE OUR HEADS, SISTERS DON’T EVEN SALAAM EACH OTHER IN THIS CITY.
BE MEN!!!!!! LIKE THE COMPANIONS
BE WOMEN!!!!LIKE THE SAHAABIYAAT
I LOVE YOU ALL FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAAH
IF I HAVE SAID ANYTHING INCORRECT, IT IS FROM ME AND THE SHAITON, ANYTHING I HAVE SAID GOOD, AND FROM BENEFIT, IT IS FROM ALLAAH.
SUBHANA KALIHUMMA WA BIHAMDIKAH ASHADUWAN LAILAHA ANTA WA ASTAGHFURUKA WA A TUBALAY( I TRIED, LOL)
AS SALAAMU ALAYKUM
This is not the first time I have heard this; over zealous Muslims (especially Salafi’s) always have “good” reasons for branding Muslims in large as non-Muslim.
BY THE WAY………………I AM SALAFI TOO MY HEART! THAT IS WHY I AM ADMONISHING THE COMMUNITY, FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAAH