Hammering Out The Marriage Thing
Michelle Boorstein of the Washington Post wrote an article about one of my pet peeves in the American Muslim community - the system (or lack thereof) of getting “married”.
A lot of people do not like to admit it, but we still need to figure this thing out. In many Muslim countries, it is as simple as marrying your cousin. However here it is much more complex - almost no large extended families here - and marrying a complete stranger after a 30 minute meeting has led to a lot of madness. I liken these stranger marriages to playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber empty.
First, the concept of marriage needs to be firmly defined. There are still many people that propagate that marriage is nothing more than for fulfilling sexual desires and breeding children. Nothing more…nothing less. Women are reduced to mindless broodmares. Concepts such as caring and sharing are denigrated as “Western” and alien to Islam. I have received emails and been in personal conversations in which I was attacked relentlessly for my “Western” views on marriage. (ex: “You can’t get to know someone without dating, and dating is haraam”…”The early Muslims married strangers, so what are you talking about?”) This concept needs to be soundly refuted and we need to establish that marriage can be about love and not just another mindless ritual. This is why you find some marrying for extremely short periods of time. It is only about whether or not it is halal and not about two human beings planning and spending the rest of their lives together.
The bottom line is that if we are going to define an “Islamic marriage” as banal and loveless, then we will find more people making their own way in the pursuit of marital bliss. (Hey Akh! Allah hasn’t guaranteed us happiness!!!!!!)
Some people that have tried marriage (some 2-3 times) are so terrified of making another mistake that they would rather remain single than enter yet another calamitous “marriage”.
“In Islamic culture there is no dating and no kind of middle ground, so the sense is, if this person is a good person, let’s get married. The impulse isn’t to prolong a courting relationship. Our advocacy is it needs to be prolonged somewhat,” said Ihsan Bagby, co-founder of the Muslim Alliance in North America.
The issue is not just about the person being a “good person”. Two good people can get married, but not be a match in marriage. She’s quiet. He’s talkative. She wants to get an advanced degree. He wants his wife to be a homemaker. He likes this. She likes that. “Good people” can have very different personalities and not be right for each other. We are not robots. We have flesh, blood and feelings.
Read the entire article here
Filed under: Black American Muslims, Children's Issues, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
As salaamu alaikum:
I took the time to finish reading the article on Muslim Marriages in the Washington Post. 1st, I pray that Allah guide Daisy Khan and us all. Although we want to find a solution to many of our marital problems, we can’t solve it by bringing innovation into the matter, ie Muslims only have 2 holiday celebration which are our 2 Eid’s, there is no Valentine’s Day for Muslims. And if you were to take the time to look at the origin of that day, you would learn something and I’m sure would not want to be associated with it.
As someone reminded me once, “How many of us intend to do good, but don’t reach it, due to lack of knowledge and understanding.”.
As we all will admit there are societal problems and baggage that many of us bring with us prior to converting to Islam - that we as individuals need to check at the door before we pursue marriage. But please beleive that there are many Imams trying to deal with these fast marriages, lack of knowledge about the interested spouse, etc…
Listen to the talks, purchase some of the C.D.’s from the dawah center in Philly. (YES they are addressing these issues).
But many individuals want to do what they want to do, and sometimes the Imams nor the Wali/Whakil, nor the administration can stop them.
People want to fulfill their desire and don’t want to take the advice of the Messenger and “fast” nor be “patient” nor make “duaa”. Why does a woman get caught up in these 30 minute sitdowns and then married, noone has forced her to , she did it because she chose to, and vice versa for the men.
As I was just listening to a talk this past weekend, “Neglecting Our Children” due to not choosing a good mate in the beginning, Masha Allah.
We have to realize to have some common sense before we choose a mate and have the intent to really stay with this person until Allah takes our soul. Do you see this when you sit down with them or do you see things that you already know in your mind that it is probably not going to work or last but you go through with it anyway. Are you looking for a husband/wife or a girlfriend/boyfriend - but since we can’t have a girlfriend/boyfriend and you just need to be with someone or are just looking for some companionship so you get married. We have to have some concern and dignity for our ownselves and fear Allah and care about our children that we have or will have by this new spouse.
I have been out of the single realm - but I can say honestly that things have been put into place like
1. marriage counseling
2. requirement of bloodwork test
And I don’t know the rest
Insha Allah someone that knows can speak up about this and if you have any beneficial solutions to share that are in accordance with the Quran and Sunnah based upon the understanding of the Salaf. Then provide your ideas - they may be beneficial - Allak knows best. I advise, if you are single - try to practice patience, fast and seek Allah’s guidance in all of your affairs. And try to find a person you truly beleive that you can trust - trust to do the right thing, or trust that they will try to fear Allah to the best of their ability when the going gets tough - trust to take care of you and honor you - trust that they will help you and your family get into Paradise and far away from the hellfire.
We all make mistakes, we have to learn from them, seek forgiveness, and move on.
Ummie,
You pointed out a very real problem, that is the fact that Sharia in Family Law has no binding authority. Everyone wants to get married and live according to deen but when it breaks down everyone runs to the civil courts. So what is happening in some cases is people are marrying according to Sharia and divorcing according to secular law. Aside from allowing Muslims to govern their family life according to Sharia (which I highly doubt will happen anytime soon). We have to come up with creative solutions to our problems. One thing Tariq and I have been discussing is in regards to financials. One approach is the Russel Simmon’s approach. Russel set up Kimora Lee with a business she could successfully manage when they divorced there was no beef. Now I’m not suggesting our sisters have to become enamoured with the stresses of multi million dollar companies but there is a way to financially enable our sisters that would actually give them more security and at the same time give them more time in the home. One thing we don’t do a lot is plan. For example Brother A and Sister B get married they spend the first 5 years of their marriage getting to know one another. During that time both focus on financial matters and contribute financially to the family investing in things that are going to provide a residual income for the family. When that five years is up the family will have enough residual income for the woman to stop working and focus on family matters and children. We live in a capitalist society and we must learn to think more strategicly.
“Daisy Khan, a New York activist who counsels couples with her husband, an imam, organized a Valentine’s Day event for singles — 15 men and 63 women attended. Although she used to feel torn about interfaith marriage, she is now concerned that women will either be left unmarried or leave their faith. She tries to connect Muslim couples but also thinks pious Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslims who also are pious.” - Post article
Another mufti and expert offering their opinion and basing it on what? The Word of Allah which as a matter of belief in Islam is considered immutable and perfect? Or perhaps the authentic statements and actions of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) whose words and actions also have the standing of legislation as a matter of BELIEF in Islam?…NOT!
“”It creates these experiences of weirdness where you’re more comfortable with [non-Muslim] John at work than Mohamed” at the mosque, said Zarinah El Amin-Naeem, 28, an anthropologist.” - Post article
Uh huh. I bet. Who would feel comfortable going to a masjid full of those serious and pious believers who might just remind you - if only by their presence - that something you do or believe might just be contradictory to the faith you profess? Out of sight, out of mind.
“And, of course, many Muslims are secular or are liberal about their faith, perhaps using a Muslim dating Web site such as naseeb.com but not agonizing over premarital sex or seeking a wali.” - Post article
Yeah. I was told about a man who said pre-marital sex is now okay in Islam because “they didn’t have condoms in the time of the Prophet so that’s why zinaa was made haraam.” Now we have Trojans.
Is this the deen of Islam taught and practiced by our Prophet (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam)? If not, then what should it be called?
“Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im, an Islamic family law expert at Emory University, argues that gender dynamics have changed in a way that makes interfaith marriage more reasonable under Islamic tradition.” - Post article
This man’s mentor - Mahmood Taha head of the “jumhooriyeen” in Sudan - was executed by Numeiri way back when. Check it out on your own to see how outlandish HE was. If putting reason before faith was a principle in Islam, we wouldn’t even make wudhu, not to mention pray 5 times a day.
“Qur’an Shakir, who runs national Muslim dating events and writes a column on Muslim dating, said a lot of people debate the value of a dowry today, even as a symbolic commitment, while others think that the position of wali should be updated to be more like a relationship mentor and less like a guardian, and that men should have walis, too. “People need to be open to different interpretations of the Koran,” she said. ” - Post article
I guess the wali could now drive the couples to the movies or better yet, a motel! Yet another ’scholar’ of the deen enlightening all of us stupid backward idiots who choose to base our opinions and practices on long-standing and proven principles found in the authenticated teachings of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) and of the best generations of the Muslims and those who follow them by memorizing and studying and considering the meanings and import of them before making rulings. Who needs all that?! Do what you like.
Stranger marriages a problem? Yes. This as a solution? NO!
In my opinion, maybe it’s just my “Western” mind, when we continue to reduce our religion to rules and rituals and ignore the principles that under gird them, we become no better than the Jews as the time of Jesus (as).
It’s almost as if we forget the word “intention”. I don’t claim to be a scholar and really could care less if I’m called an “innovator” but I believe that it’s perfectly possible to find a middle ground that works that doesn’t contradict the principles, philosophy, or intention of our faith.
In the end I don’t necessarily agree with all the approaches as presented in this article, nor do I agree with the “clutch your pearls” Muslims who see everything through the prism of cultural application from 1400 years ago.
I have always understood Islam as a faith and religion that is timeless, maybe it’s just me.
As Salaam Alaikum
RE: Robert Salaam’s statement:
“It
RE: Robert Salaam’s statement:
“…nor do I agree with the
Abu Abdillah,
You outlined very well what the solution is NOT and you provided your evidence for that. You concluded as well that stranger marriages are a problem. What in your humble opinion is the solution???
What is marriage according to the understanding of the Salaf of this Ummah?
In Faidh al-Qadeer (the commentary on Jami` as-Sagheer) al-Munaawi said:
@ Daud
Barak Allaahu feekum
The very best of times was the times of the salaf and what they did is what we need to do today. There is no “culture” in what they did, but rather all of it is guidance. These people try to get us to follow this filthy “black culture” in which they are calling us to BET, music videos, street violence and out of wedlock children.
Aboo Abdillah,
Have you read Rawdatul Muhibeen, Tuhfatul 3aroos, or Tawqul Hamamah? Love is broken down in a more complex way by Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi.
@ Rasheed Moore
This is the signs of the people of deviation that they try to bring strange opinions of scholars of the past to justify their positions. Our ulamaa have told us that the object of marriage is permissible sex and this is the meaning of “love” when it comes to marriage. This other stuff is imported from Muslims watching the lieks of television, movies and reading “romance” novels and super imposing those evil ideals uon Islaam. If both the man and woman understand their role in the contract and fulfill it, then the marriage will be sucessful insha Allah. It is fool proof and perfect system if both parties do their part.
As a single African-american Muslim woman, I can attest to the fact that the issue of finding a compatible mate is a difficult task. Yes, finding a Muslim husband is a personal priority. However, as much as this is a priority for me, (marriage is half our faith), I am neither willing to forego the proper Islamic adab associated with marriage and engagement in Islam, nor willing to forego the prospect of
Yes the problems are known and are complex. There is no panacea. Just hard work.
One thing we simply can not allow is innovations that negate the foundations of Islam to creep in. It’s incredulous that Muslims hold some of the sentiments expressed in this article such as dating or Muslims sisters marrying non-Muslim men (tangent but how fake is it, that brothers who won’t eat meat from regular stores claiming that todays Christians aren’t people of the book, but have no problem getting with todays Christian women end tangent)
Muslims commit sin all the time and will continue to commit sin but the answer isn’t to make sinning lawful
But what also isn’t the answer is to allow these lame dudes who had no game before they were Muslim continue to now use Islam to get their “mack” on. And leaving the resultant children to fend for themselves or be born on the backs of society.
The only realistic solution that preserves Islamic principles and create a healthy marriage enviroment is for our indigenous scholars and leaders to grab the reigns and establish Islamic based civil courts for the Blackamerican Muslim diaspora (yeah I didn’t used the “S” word, I didn’t want use use such an emotive word LOL) and to create (hay al-muslimoon) Muslim neighborhoods/communities.
This ridiculous notion of calling, writing, emailing, or paltalk overseas for faatawa for every issue is compounding the problem. When a man willfully acquiesces that much control over his day to day affairs it’s not suprising then that he willfully neglects his responsibilties, such as feeding, clothing and educating his wives and children. Where is the community building?
The fact that Muslim sisters are often more familiar with their co-workers than brothers at the Masjid, has nothing to with how firm the brother is on his deen, and everything to do with the lack of established BAM communities that allow for healthy day to day interaction.
In the vast majority of BAM Masjids, reverts (regardless of age) generally comprise the “workers” where are the majority of the second, third and forth generation BAMs? They are out doing everything non-BAMs are doing the good and the bad but they are certainly not in the Masjid. So, virtualy no intermarriage occurs in the later generations. Yes there are a few exceptions but it’s not the rule.
“Our ulamaa have told us that the object of marriage is permissible sex and this is the meaning of
As salaamu alaikum:
Masha Allah Umm Pookie, you made a clarifying point that was well put. Marriage can not be about just fulfilling the desires. And many other comments have stated that “if we just fulfill everything else then we will be all right”. Well that is the point we are not fulfilling everything else within the marriage.
Maybe new Muslims and old should take some classes prior to marriage and learn their rights and responsibilities for each spouse. If they learned these alone - it might make a brother or sister slow up in their selection process or either not have a 30 min. sit down and then get married. When a brother realizes he needs a job to take care of his family and the sister realizes she can’t go for that “game” talk about “baby, it’s o.k. if you are on welfare and public housing - now I can take you on as a 2nd or maybe 1st or 3rd.”
And when a brother considers that this woman is the one whom has to guard his home when he is out working , then maybe he won’t choose a sister (just due to deisre) that might have anger or mental issues and will punch holes in his wall if he pisses her off. And vice versa, a sister won’t get married to a brother (just because of physical attraction) and she finds out later that he has some problems and is now physically abusive or oppressive in some way.
Next, try to do some research on the person, ask the people who know about him/her - get some references.
Next, if you are really interested go through the proper protocal of your Masjid and not through the back alley.
Noone can say that Islam doesn’t have the answer the question really is “ARE YOU APPLYING ISLAM TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY - ARE YOU FEARING ALLAH TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY- HAVE YOU BEEN HONEST WITH THE INDIVIDUAL YOU ARE SITTING DOWN WITH AND ARE YOU BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN’T DO IN REGARDS TO AN INDIVIDUAL’S RIGHTS UPON YOU.”
And let’s not forget that there are problems in every religion in regards to marriage. Islam has given a better solution to fix the many evils that exist today. So for all of those who are not Muslim (that may get a kick out of the Muslims going back and forth). Please beleive that the bickering comes far more from the actions and statements of the people not from the commandments and statements from our Lord and His Messenger. There are individuals whom in every religion whom are more orthodox than others - so people will bicker about how they understood something etc, or follow their own desire in some manner, etc..
May Allah help us to fear Him as He aught to be feared and May we as Muslims seek His guidance in all of our affairs.
Marriage is a WHOLE LOT - and it takes hard work, dedication, patience and prayer to keep it in tact.
YOU HEARD ME!
@ Aboo Abdillah H,
It is exactly this lawful-sex-to-fulfill-lust/business contract mindset that contributes to the problem, I’m tempted to post ayat that call for “sakina” in marriages. Or hadith where the Prophet (saws) showed “love” and “affection” for his wives, children and grand-children. Even doing chores for his wife (ok so I’m slacking on that too….. but you get my point) Or hadith in which Prophet (saws) expressed the importance of family, caring, providing and educating your family to the point that, although a Muslim property is sacred, if a Brother doesn’t provide for his family a wife can take the money she requires!
Yes, I could post the dalil for all of it, but lame “halal players” will still make excuses. If you believe that the Prophet (saws) taught that
[...] wrote another timely post on Muslim marriages. I’ve read the Washington Post article and it raises a number of major issues of Muslims [...]
As-salaamu ‘Alaikum,
I find the other Aboo Abdillah’s comments on black people and ‘black culture’ very distasteful, unnecessary and my comment is not to promote or agree with or defend ill practices promoted within and outside the black community. Why does he feel the need to make this pointed attack on every blog he enters and why is he implying that Daud is promoting the immoral aspects of that ‘culture’? Let’s keep it civil shall we?
Perhaps you will find the following link to a two part series on Muslim marriages as interesting and refreshing as I did if only for the fact that it was actually not hostile or overly judgmental of the Islamic practice of polygyny amongst African American Muslims. I am sure it will generate a boatload of commentary. It was certainly to be expected after the Mormon thing in Texas.
Some Muslims in U.S. Quietly Engage in Polygamy
by Barbara Bradley Hagerty
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90857818
Philly’s Black Muslims Increasingly Turn to Polygamy
by Barbara Bradley Hagerty
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90886407
Also consider this issue in light of the fact that homosexuals can be legally married in this country while polygyny practicing Muslims cannot.
Slave mentality is alive, “as long as i follow my ulema i will be ok”, “the ulema said this and that”. There is nothing wrong with self determination and a bit of believe in your ability rather than being a follower like a pack of sheep.
As much as deen is important when choosing a partner other things are important as well, an educated partner from the same cultural background is important to me.
The early muslims did not marry strangers, marriage was a union between two families from the same community who shared the same culture, customs, tribe.
Today’s converts ask prospective partners questions like “where is allah”, ” what is tawhid”, “what scholars do you take from?” Is it any wonder those marriages last for a few months.
Also
American Muslim Family Chooses Polygmy
by Pauline Bartolone
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15251848
@ Aboo Abdillah,
I didn’t bring any strange opinions I asked you a question that you failed to answer.
@ Abu Abdillah,
Jazakumullah for sharing that npr story I posted it on my blog. It was very refreshing to hear the subject covered with balance.
Assalamu alaykum
go to this website: http://www.aqidah12.wordpress.com
and leave relevant comments please
jazakal-lahu khayra
Aboo Abdillah,
I’m sorry to inform you akhi but some of the Salaf did fall in love:
The Messenger of Allah salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam was telling his uncle Al Abaas the story of Mugheeth and Bareerah, he said: “O Abbas! Isn’t it amazing how much Mugheeth loves Bareerah and how much Bareerah loves/hates Mugheeth?!”
Bareerah was a female slave and A’isha was interested in buying her. She was married to Mugheer, and Ai’sha freed her (they were married in slavery); a free woman cannot marry a slave man, so after she became free, she had the choice to keep this marriage or to ask for the dissolvent of the marriage. She said, “Alhamdulillah, I’m tired of this marriage, I’m going to get out.” Mugheer loved her so much, sincerely and honestly. After she left him, he couldn’t take it, so he went in public weeping, chasing her, asking her “Ya Bareera just look at me or talk to me.” He went to sahaba and said, “Please talk to her for me (to Abu Bakr and Umar and at the end, even to the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wassalam) to ask him to intercede. So Prophet (peace be upon him) (as the mercy for mankind) felt sorry for him, and he said he’d do it. When he went to Bareerah, she asked, “Are you commanding me or are you just interceding?” The Prophet said, “I’m interceding.” She replied, “If this is the case, then I don’t want him”, and since all else failed, he spent his life chasing after her and crying for her.
What to gain from the hadith:
Excessive love sometimes causes the forgetfulness of shyness. Just like in his example, he could not hide his love for Bareerah, but the Prophet (peace be upon him) didn’t chastise him for it (becuse it wasn’t in his hands.) He wouldn
@ Rasheed Moore
You mentioned yourself that the “love” Mugeeth felt was excessive. We can’t bring the incident of a single sahaabah and make it general.
Brother Rasheed wrote:
For example Brother A and Sister B get married they spend the first 5 years of their marriage getting to know one another. During that time both focus on financial matters and contribute financially to the family investing in things that are going to provide a residual income for the family. When that five years is up the family will have enough residual income for the woman to stop working and focus on family matters and children. We live in a capitalist society and we must learn to think more strategicly.
Brother Rasheed: is this your concept of “manning up”? That the brother needs his wife to help him do his duty, i.e., financially support his wife, help him get residual income? In Islam, this is not the woman’s responsibility. This solution is not any better than Daisy Khan’s idea of us marrying non-Muslims.
If the man does not have income to allow the wife to focus on family matters and children, it sounds like he is not a good candidate for marriage !
And shame on Daisy Khan. I don’t think the foreign-born Muslims would be thrilled to have their daughters marrying non-Muslims. Why is it an option for us American sisters!!!???
Asalaama alaykum,
I had read the article at WaPo. Why would we accept the fact that the journalist is falsifying Surah Nur. Allah said in Quran Aziz, marry pious women or man. There was nothing said about a muminah marrying a jew or christian unless, she want to be a murtad. Itaqa Allah. Don’t make halal what Allah had forbidden from you?
PS. Please, do write to the author of this article and explain to her that Islam doesn’t allow a muminah to marry a kuffar. Ma a salaama.
“There was nothing said about a muminah marrying a jew or christian unless, she want to be a murtad. Itaqa Allah.”
While I agree that this journalist had it wrong with regard to women marrying other than Muslims, it is important to note that a woman who does so is not necessarily a murtad.
Muslims engage in sinful acts all the time–sinning by itself does not make one an apostate. Else there would not be a single Muslim left on the face of the earth.
RE: Daud
@ Robert
This statement about
I apologize then for my gross assumptions, for I was in error.
I think we both have to utilize patience and care with our speech to ensure we don’t project the things we know not.
To clear this matter up. When I say “cultural Islam” its based on a theory (working one I might add) that I have that believes that Islam can be translated and practiced in the context of distinct cultural realities.
For example, Muslimah’s dress. I don’t believe all women have to dress exactly the same in order to observe proper modesty. The dress in Saudi, Nigeria, Indonesia, or even America can be uniquely and culturally different and still conform to the rulings of Islam.
As such with such a minor and dare I say trivial description, I believe what this article highlights is a very real need for Muslims and the scholars of Islam to come up with halal applications that can be applied within the framework of Islam in America which if we haven’t noticed, is distinctly different than that in the “East”.
I believe many of our problems come in when we try to conform or apply “Eastern” culture in a Western society. Instead of coming up with viable solutions, we fight amongst ourselves and as such we leave open the door for what we are now seeing as addressed in this article.
I have been a proponent of Muslims specifically American Muslims to be on the forefront of all the issues so that we can make clear what is right and what is wrong, without being isolationist.
Instead of complaining about Music, let’s make some that is uniquely Western, but also Halal.
Instead of complaining about Movies or TV, let’s create, write, direct, produce, and act in media that is uniquely Western, but also Halal.
I believe this is a far-better solution so that people aren’t practicing Islam based on their wants and desires and not those of Allah (swt).
I pray I have made a little sense.
Think of this example - A guy with NO driver’s license having an accident and hurting someone vs A guy WITH a driver’s license having an accident and hurting someone. In both cases, somebody is hurt. This is what I liken those claim that as long as the marriage is done by halal means, its good.
No its not. For some reason, to some people, the consequences don’t seem to matter as long as the original ‘transaction’ was halal (I don’t have the time to write to explain why the word transaction is wrong in so many ways).
For some reason, in a lot of Muslim cultures, so much emphasis is being placed on sexual purity, that the consequences of an inappropriate marriage don’t matter. Even if I were to accept that the concept of love doesn’t exist (which is a bunch of horseshit in itself), don’t tell me that the concept of unhappiness does not exist, because if the marriage isn’t working, someone will be unhappy.
There’s a reason why so many Saudis are sodomites. The seperation of the sexes (which is an innovation in itself) is being taken to such an extreme by some people, and coupled with the fact that a wedding has become more important than marriage, it is practically impossible to find a decent normal way to form an understanding of the opposite sex, and to find a good marriage partner.
To believe that any two people can be married is flawed. The consequence of free will is that we all have varied opinions and choices about how we do things (any thing, like what kind of food we like, what kind of books we like to read etc etc). Even in the best of marriages, the couple have to work very hard at balancing each other’s needs and wants. If one person is always having to give in to the other’s needs and wants, that person will be unhappy. To find a suitable partner for marriage, one needs to both develop the skills needed to deal with the opposite sex, and also find someone who can work with them.
The issues we are seeing today are just the symptoms, not the problems themselves.
@Abu Usamah al Aswad
Whooaa!!! Akhi, this is evil speech, in many ways!!!!!!!!
Let
@ K-Dude
???
@ Daud
Another fabulous strike down! They want to seek glory in that filthy black culture and speak against our ulamaa but it ironic considering how undeveloped most of the continent of Africa remains to this day. All other modern buildings and structures are mostly due to Arabs and others who brought civilization to them. This could be why so many Afrocentrists spend so much time trying to place themselves and history outside of the continent of Africa, except for Egypt.
If we would just follow the ulamaa our affairs would improve dramatically
Being in an abusive halal marriage is infinitely better than being in some evil dating situation and the people get along. The point is that the people follow what is halal not whether or not we are “happy”. We have not been guaranteed “happiness”. What is upon us is to follow the Sunnah. All the rest of this “romance” and such things are innovated and grafted upon the body of this ummah and it is rejected
@ Aboo Abdillah,
The point of the Hadith was that the Prophet did not disapprove of his excessive love this is called Taqrir in Fiqh. And yes in the case of a single Sahabi (not Sahabah that is plural) a ruling can be made their are numerous examples of Taqrir that will confirm this just ask “your ulama” The point is Aboo Abdillah not all people are the same there are some that are soft hearted and some that are more hard hearted. Well personally you won’t see Rasheed running around L.A. chasing after some bint but that’s me. But humans have emotions and they do fall in love as in the case of this Sahabi who was from amongst the Salaf. In fact the Salaf were not a monolith as some brothers make them out to be. Saying the Salaf did this or the Salaf did that like they were one group that did not have their own individual personalities. We know that from among the Salaf there were those that were more rough like Umar and some that were soft hearted like Abu Bakr. So who is Aboo Abdillah to disapprove of something when the Prophet SAW did not disapprove?
I guess according to Aboo Abdillah the Sahabi Mugeeth was an innovator… ??
@Safiyyah,
This is something that should be discussed on the front end before entering the marriage for sure. While I will agree the brother may not be a good candidate for oh let’s say Sister X, I can definitely say from personal experience that Sister Y, and Sister Z don’t have a problem with that arrangement. There are plenty of Samak in the Bahr as they say.
Incidentally there is nothing inherently wrong or unislamic with that arrangement as this is something regulated by 3urf (or custom) the problem a lot of people make is that they think only their particular customs are “islamic” and this is simply not true.
Manning up means being responsible, just because your woman is going out and earning money does not make you irresponsible. In fact a man that knows how to handle his finances can help that woman’s money grow and manage it in a productive way. In fact I shouldn’t even say “going out” I know plenty of brothers who have wives that sit at home and make money so let’s not make it like I am advocating that we throw the poor helpless sisters out to the wolves and work them to death in a sweat shop (incidentally there are many Muslim women who do this in Indonesia to help their families without complaint) . There is nothing wrong or unislamic with a woman contributing financially to the home. Just look at the case of Khadijah RA she made more than the Prophet yet I doubt any will have the audacity to say our beloved was less than a man for that.
@ Daud and Aboo Abdillah H
1.
Aouth billah minal Shaytan il-rajeem, please show were I wrote anything attacking any of the ulema? I don’t blame them!!! I blame people who do the things I mentioned so your whole arguement about attacking them is a lie, a red herring, a strawman and you should repent, for lying is like shirk!!!
How dare you include Shayh bin Baz in this discussion, he has been gone for nearly a decade, what does he have to do with what I wrote? Where did I mention him? Furthermore, what do you even know of Shaykh bin Baz, have you met him? Have you studied with him? As he is gone please leave him out of this discussion. inshaAllah
Furthermore, stop spreading missinformation about him he wasn’t a senior member Founding Committee of Muslim World League, if he was even a member he was a junior member there were 21 founding consul members of Rabita and he wasn’t one. Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraheem Al-Shaykh represented Saudi. Do some research stop being lazy, cuting and pasting from fatwa-online.
You mention these university and organzations as if they were historic? None of those organizations existed prior to 1960. If fact do you even know where the original teachers in these universities came from? Do some reseach akhi before
@ Daud and Aboo Abdillah H
oh yeah I’ll be responding your other mis-guided posts later inshaAllah in the mean time I’ll make sincere dua’a Allah aza wa jal grant each of you and all us faqi-deen
The marriage “system” is a damn JOKE amongst American converts to Islam!!!!!!!
@ Rasheed Moore
Follow the ulamaa brother and you will be safe. You will find safety in following them. As they have informed us, romance is a waste of time, effort and dignity. Islam teaches us to be truthful and realistic. When a Muslim loves something or somebody, it must be ONLY for Allaah
All the “romantic” stories of movies and books are not helpful to make a person comply with the teachings of Islam and are unrealistic and harmful to those involved. People go in expecting some type of “romantic” friendship in a marriage instead of a partner with which you will help to increase the Ummah and study and learn this deen with. That is the perfect marriage. “Romance” and “love” do not result in a bond between two people. An Islamic marriage is more realistic and should be looked at as a contract between two parties in which both parties agree to fulfill the others’ rights. There is a contract for a reason. It is a contractual obligation. Nothing more.
Islamic marriages are more successful and lasting than “romantic” and “love” marriages found in the West. We are free from such notions of marriage and if the Muslims realized it, we would be much better off
“Islamic marriages are more successful and lasting than
Aboo Abdillah H
I thought the Ulema were individuals with Islamic knowledge, not sacred divine inspired people who have the solution to all of our problems.
If that is the case then i would “follow the ulema” like a dog.
@ Kaalimaat
Subhanallaah. They are not divinely inspired people. They’re important because they are the ones who teach us our Deen. We are to follow them because we are ignorant. Allaah praised the scholars in several places in the Qur’an, like in Surah Ali Imran
3:18 All
“Islamic marriages are more successful and lasting than
“Being in an abusive halal marriage is infinitely better than being in some evil dating situation and the people get along.’
Why does it have to be either/or?
The Islamic normative standard should not be “abusive halal”. That construct really is an oxymoron in a lot of ways because there is NOTHING halal about abuse.
Islam does not teach us to aim low. Most Muslims who get married manage perfectly well to remain within the boundaries of the deen and go on to have wonderful, (dare I say, LOVING?) non-abusive marriages.
In any case, abuse isn’t the only factor that would derail a marriage between two perfectly wonderful, pious people. Just look at the union of Zaid ibn Haritha and Zaynab bin Jahsh–may Allah be pleased with them both. No one can say–Allah forbid–that these people were anything other than the most righteous of people. But they were not right for each other, simple as that. Sometimes that’s life.
It is perfectly possible, AND halal, to strive for *Islamic* marriages and courtships that comply with shari’ah and also meet people’s personal needs. Al hamdulillah for the blessing of the greatest deen in the world.
@ Daud
1. continued… regarding your attack on my statement of
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@Daud
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@Daud
5.
As for my statment “When a man willfully acquiesces that much control over his day to day affairs it
A Salaamu Alaikum,
Rather than do a point-by-point response I’ll respond in general. Some of the comments are indicative of the many problems that we face, particular as African-American Muslims (most posting I will hazard to say are Afr.Am.), and particularly in the inner city. I mean to see comments like “filthy black culture” and “abusive halal marriage (??huh??”) and other comments about how Arabs brought civilization to Africa etc…etc…is appalling if spoken by a racist and extremely sad if this was penned by a Black Man. The fact is being Muslim doesn’t turn you into a superhero and too many of us think that it does. Islam is not a magic pill. If you had problems keeping your hands off Women before Islam then you’ll have the same problems after Islam if Islam has not had a transformative effect on your character. If you was ‘pimpin’ back in the day then you’ll be pimpin’ with a kufee on and call it serial monagamy (wife-divorce-wife-divorce-wife-divorce) or you’ll look at polygamy as a way to keep on pimpin’ and call it halal. If you are an ex-offender, former drug addict, didn’t graduate high school, undereducated then being Muslim won’t change that in and of itself. If you have a prison mentality in terms of your deen (i.e. a very regimented can and can’t do approach with no nuance…no creativity…no individualism…do this do that when I say jump you don’t ask why…you say how high?) then that will follow you throughout UNLESS Islam has a transformative effect on you. If due to life issues your economic state is what it is which forces you to live where you live which in turn has you associating with a particular community which has a particular take on Islam then these are issues that will probably color your deen but that doesn’t mean that the Islam coming from that community IS THE DEEN. That’s just what you’re exposed to and frankly what you have been PURPOSEFULLY EXPOSED TO (but that’s another story). I mean some of these comments only highlight what we SHOULD be talking about. Too much emphasis on appearance and anti-Western rhetoric has allowed ideas of what a wife is and isn’t and what a real Muslim man is and isn’t to fester. And let me state for the record that I am the first to say “Physician heal thyself”. I don’t claim to be free of “issues”. I’m tryin’ and strugglin’ too but I don’t claim to be a halal abuser. So that’s my little I ain’t holier than NONE OF Y’ALL disclaimer. And that’s real talk.
To continue…And we haven’t even gone into the history of Islam in America. How did we even come to have Islam in the first place and where did it come from? Why didn’t we have this rigid, anti-everything ideology amongst the West African Muslims that were enslaved for example? Why do African-American Muslims seem to trace their Islam to free pamphlets and free scholarships from a certain area of the globe when the first Muslims in America weren’t Arab? So how about we learn the history of Islam in America. Might that help put things in context? Might that help give you more of a sense of self? Learning our true history helps to embolden us and give us a more solid understanding of who we are and what we can become and achieve. And I’m not talking simply racially it’s bigger than that. We as Americans. And we need to not have a problem asserting that we are Americans. There is nothing wrong with that. Embrace it. No one else denies who they are. Although it is interesting that African-American Muslims seem to be the only ones that have to deny their Americanness in order to be “Muslim.”
There are groups trying to address the concerns in our community that have been neglected for decades due to the agendas, or I can be nice and say the ignorant well intended actions, of others. May Allah grant us tawfiq.
This has been a very, very, sad discussion. It truly illustrates how much work needs to be done and how sick our communities still are.
Some would rather look away than within.
Not one solution, just hadith, ayah, hadith, ayah, scholar such and such, brother so and so, your right, your wrong, the same foolishness that has netted us what?
So what you can memorize an ayah, a hadith, dress a certain way, or claim certain knowledge.
If you can’t use that information to change your surroundings and uplift the people it means nothing.
So here we are fighting about one another’s Muslimness meanwhile we don’t own, or determine anything for ourselves.
Meanwhile non-Muslims continually, marginalize, devalue, and underestimate us.
To be quite simple: Leave America if you don’t like it. Meanwhile those of us who actually believe in transformative Islam and don’t mind rolling up our sleeves to get the necessary work done that will be better for everyone and be a light for everyone will stay here.
Salam ….
One thing many people seem to overlook is that the Prophet (pbuh) came to a cultural group already entrenched in long standing customs and practices. The majority of these practices and standards were held commonly throughout the ancient world, Arab and non-Arab and reflected the stage of mankind’s emergence from small family groups and hunter gatherer colonies to agrarian communities and larger settlements. The Qur’an spoke to those people in language and in references that they knew well, they understood, and would have meaning for them. The Qur’an and the prophet (pbuh) did not destroy the culture to which it came, but it did make certain modifications that would be comfortable, with a little work , for the people. However, I have never felt that this was meant to imply that all elements of culture and social expression that was indigenous on the Arabian penninsula in the 7th century CE, prior to the appearance of the Qur’an and most of which naturally maintained and spread after the time of the Companions, peace be upon them all, was somehow mandated as perfect and to be emulated for all peoples into perpetuity. No where in the Qur’an or in the Hadith is such a suggestion made.
Please brothers and sisters avoid Aboo Adillah it is now obvious after his comments on this web siteand others that he is sick with self hate.Obviosly by his ridcious comments and fake self righteous he has to much time on his hand.C.O.R.E and other self hating negreos are looking dilgently for people like this chacter.Next he espousing that that arabs are free from racism and that we are just imageing things when they talk down at us.
As Salamu laykum
people like Aboo Abdillah showed just be ignored and Muslims with ideas shouldn’t waste time debating instead talk about the subject matter.