Looking for ‘A Few Good Men’
Posted on June 9th, 2008 by Tariq Nelson
An article in InFocus about the difficulty American Muslim women are having in finding a suitable mate.
When suitors came knocking, Afaf was surprised at the mediocrity of the suitors available and was left wondering, “Where are all the
Filed under: The Culture of Denial and Pretense
A former colleague of mine told me of her similar struggle this morning; she’s working on her Masters, but has trouble finding Muslim men of her ethnic group (Malay) who are well educated and able to keep up with her intellectually. I also know another woman up in Malaysia who’s going through the same problem.
Most time when we’re looking for a spouse, they aren’t there, but when we’re not,they be in their faces by surprise
While I’m not saying that these women are being too picky in finding these guys,t with some people, in this case with the subject of women, they may be too picky with it. I want this, that and some more from a man. I have friends who are yearning to marry and claims that they haven’t found Mr. Right, but I notice what their idea of him may be: College educated, good looks, a guy who have money and so on .
When my cousin married her husband of 15 years, people thought that she “lowered herself”( God I hate it when people say that) because she didn’t marry a white collar college educated man.( She’s had a Bachelor’s degree in computer science and works as a computer analyst. He works in a food factory).Here’s the funny thing. As I ‘ve mentioned she’s be in her marriage for fifteen years, her bourgeoisie crew( Even though I’m college educated, they are just a little too bourgie for me) her friends her are a little over their forties are wither single or a divorced from their college educated husbands. I knew a couple of their husbands and I’m trying to figure how they managed to let them get past first base with them.So far they are doing well. They both make good money and they just adopted a little girl.
Sometimes, Mr. Right may be they person that we may not imagine in our minds. He may not be college educated, be a real hotie or may not have Oprah’s pay, but they can be the best provider in ever way in the world(I know that with some culture it may be and easy said than done thing as it’s more focused on cultural traditions).
I wish those women well in their quest in finding their mates. I believe he’s out there. He may not be known right now, two years or even several years down the road, but there is someone for everybody and when God is ready for him to meet them her will let them know.
There is a problem with the supply, and in many cases, in the demand.
I have known/seen women who are in their late 20’s, early thirthies, who are very picky about what they want. They want a guy who has never been married, has no kids, live right where they live, from the same country, same caste, sometimes even same school of thought in Islam.
People need to realise that your naseeb isnt always what you thought them to do. They might be divorced, they might have kids, they might be from a different country, speak a different native language.
I was kinda thinking the same thing Peaches. I know statistically for educated black women, the chances of getting married maybe lower, even compared to other black women. It may also be hard for educated women in other racial groups. However, I do think that some women have these perfect standards that couldn’t be met by any guy. There has to be realism in a marriage search too.
My husband is college educated and so am I. I’m thinking about attending law school, he wants to be an imam so I may ultimately be the one making more money and that’s ok. I’m ok with not having a husband who’s going to make $100,000. In marriage, you have to make some compromises.
This is standard excuse for polygny end yet it’s usually the losers who think they should “bless” several women by becoming their husbands and impregnating them, often leaving it to the State to step in and support them.
Anyway, it’s not just Muslim men, although certainly I feel for Muslimahs who face the problem of trying to find a decent man. The bottom line is we need to do a better job raising our sons and stop letting the losers off the hook when they are irresponsible. If we don’t start now, I’m seeing a day in the not so distant future where a lot of women will marry for children; divorce when they find that their husbands are not husband and father material; and be less inclined to marry again when they realize they will wind up taking care of themselves anyway, but with half the hassle if they are single. At least that’s where I am at ;-)))
Salaam,
PM
While certainly it is true that some people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to finding a mate–and we absolutely must also include the men in that as well–the problem is too widespread to chalk it up to that alone.
I know many sisters, beautiful, smart, pious, who are having problems finding someone, and it’s not because they are hung up on some fantasy idea of what a husband should be like. There is something wrong when sisters have to choose between being lonely and choosing to be with a man who doesn’t have a steady job or ambition. Note that this is not about being white collar or not, but having the income and stability to provide for the basic needs of a family. There is something wrong when a sister has to choose between a man who is comfortable with a sister who is educated/financially stable in her own right and a man who prays. Yes, sometimes people (men and women) can be too picky but that’s not always the problem.
There are many factors which contribute to this state of affairs–lack of suitable forums in which to meet and vet a potential spouse, ethnic baggage from families who will not consider mates outside of a very narrow ethnic box no matter how wonderful they are as Muslims, miscellaneous other cultural hangups, and so on. The factors are many, it’s not always a simple question of being picky.
And I know that many good brothers are having a hard time too.
ASA. On a more positive note, the thing I will say is that I do believe that African-American Muslim women might be fairing better than our non-Muslim counterparts here in the U.S. in terms of finding a mate. Because Islam stresses marriage, Muslim brothers do look for and tend to get married. Those marriages, however, do not always last and sometimes we can be a bit quick to get married, particularly without investing the time it takes to get to know someone for perhaps the most important journey of life. Non-Muslim men on the other hand, particularly in the African-American community, are not necessarily looking to get married, especially some of the more successful men, as they recognize that they are a hot commodity and will use this to their advantage to date as many women as they like. Certainly, this is not true in all cases, but probably far too many.
Assalam-alaikam,
I know many sisters (Moroccan, Pakistani, Bengali, Mauritian) who cannot seem to find a partner. I agree some have unrealistic standards but many of them seem only to ask for a man who is a decent person and a practising Muslim. They still aren’t getting anywhere. Young practising Muslim men in the UK who are interested in marriage seem to be a rarity.
Also, as DC Muslimah says, many of the South Asian men who are eligible seem to think they are Gods gift and they’re families/mothers seem to think they have some kind of golden prize in their midst.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum,
It all goes back to standards and what is most important. The more commonalities, the better as it pertains to marriage is ideal. However, the Prophet (SAAS) stressed to us what is most important when looking for a mate and that is “deen” - religious adherance and lifestyle.
I’m not sure if many of these single sisters are looking for that firstly. Ethnicity and degrees normally takes priority.
I’m in no way downing playing the importance of education and income earning potential; I’m just questioning what sisters are sincerely looking for.
I do agree that sisters have it harder than brothers in some regards.
Question - how many sisters with a BA or MBA would marry a “pious” Muslim brother of a different race (darker skinned) who is a tax paying, hard working plumber or assistant manager at Sears?
Many professional African-American Christian sisters would love to marry an honest, criminal record free “brotha” who is a roofer, factory worker or bus driver.
Also, my murshid said to me once, “Dawud, sometimes we’re not qualified inside for what we profess that we’re looking for.” In some cases, I’m not sure if some of these sisters are really living up to the high standards that they place on brothers.
Wassalaam.
1. said no because he lied about being married and was a creep
2.said no because of zero attraction
3. said no because his mother thought i was too old for her son and kept interfering and he wanted different things than i did
4.said no because he had no clue wat he wanted to do with his life and was immature
5. said no because he had no job and no education and wasnt trying to get either
am i too picky? should i have married #1 and ended up in a women’s shelter which is where his first wife ended up?
should i have married #2 and denied myself the basic right to be attracted to my spouse?
should i have married #3 and gotten involved with a man when we were not compatible ?
should i have married #4 and been in a relationship with someone who i wasn’t compatible with emotionally or in terms of goals?
or should i have married #5 and been on welfare for the rest of my life?
This is a genuine problem in our community and the reasons why are not openly apparent, are not simple and can certainly not be chalked up to picky women. This is my little anecdote - it is not evidence. Just as other anecdotes about people you know or things you’ve seen are not evidence and are not statistics.
To lay the blame on picky women does a disservice to all women. It also does a disservice to men because the onus of responsibilty is laid at the women’s feet to just accept whatever comes along. It does nothing to encourage men to work or try harder - and we all need to work and try harder. Without this realization we are left with the philosophy of guy #1 : “don’t fight what Allah has destined for you”.
I am fortunate to be in a position to make over six figures. However, when I met my wife, the salary I made was well below that.
The brothers that I know who are successful have supportive wives. Their wives were with them before they made good money.
Most men who are focused on their professional goals really do not have time to be players and desire a supportive wife by their side to build a future and a family.
My wife tells me all the time about the unrealistic demands women put on men they want as their husbands. For example, my wife has friend who will not even consider a man who makes less than six figures. This woman is very pretty but overweight. Maybe in Mauritania and Niger she would be sought after but a successful man is not looking to be with an overweight woman. She should be more realistic in what is out there for her.
Unfortunately, women fail to read the market. Just as an investor must understand the market price of commodity and accurrate valuation so should women.
Women and men have to determine what is their value in the current market.
All people will not have the same value in the marketplace.
Salaam
A Salaamu Alaikum,
I’ll respond to this one:
“Unfortunately, women fail to read the market. Just as an investor must understand the market price of commodity and accurrate valuation so should women.
Women and men have to determine what is their value in the current market.
All people will not have the same value in the marketplace. ”
Though I think I know what you are trying to say I think the wording is somewhat problematic. You juxtaposed it with the overweight sister basically saying “Come on get real”. I don’t know the sister in your example, what she is accustomed to (does she come from a 6 figure household?) but I don’t bemoan a sister wanting a brother who has a certain base salary. If that is the most important requirement then yes that’s an issue. But for it to be a factor is not a problem in and of itself and if 100K is it then I would need to know what else she is looking for to come to a negative opinion on it. But that’s not really the point.
The problem in your example is that this sister is now being held to a beauty standard tied to an ideal and told to look in the mirror and by extension now feel bad for how she looks. If she is changing the way she looks to get a husband then the underlying problem of changing who you are to please someone else will haunt her. She needs to change her weight for HER not for HIM. Yet even still, as long as she is in good health, there are many brothers that don’t have an issue with a woman’s weight. Some men prefer it. A singer by the name of Anthony Hamilton even sings a song about it called “Sista Big Bones” (google it). The lyrics are actually pretty good. My point is that what we don’t want is for someone to have esteem issues and then by extension…and here’s where the danger comes in…SETTLE for someone because she doesn’t think she’s worth it.
The line is a tough one to navigate. I understand Ron what you are saying on one hand. “Are you having ridiculous expectations and movie star like standards based on the fantasy of what a husband should be and that’s why you are alone?” “Or do settle for the lowest common denominator so you can have a husband and by the way you’re a little chunky anyway…you don’t have a college degree and you have a kid so ‘get real’ you might as well marry who is willing to?” One of the things that I have discussed with some of my friends is that some of these sisters are not MAKING brothers step their game up. If you gonna become a 2nd or 3rd wife (and this isn’t an indictment on polygamy) and live in substandard housing, have no health insurance, and receive food stamps then why should he better himself? You don’t seem to care. You are not holding him to a higher standard nor yourself. Having balanced realistic expectations but a certain baseline of standards is key.
You know the irony here is that the sister is being held up as a bad example because she has a particular preference in terms of income but in the same breath she is being held up as a substandard mate based on a man’s preference in terms of physical appearance.
That strikes me as pot calling the kettle black kinda thang.
I hope we are not saying that it is problematic for women to have preferences in a potential husband but men can be as shallow as they like.
Brother Dash,
Respectfully your not doing the sisters a service when you encourage obesity. Sister Big Bones and The Thick Woman is just an excuse for women to stay fat, and cup caking brothers that encourage that unhealthy trend are hurting these sisters by giving them false hope. True enough there are men that will accept that and even worse encourage that but those are the men that are less desirable as well. In the end you end up with more frustrated women and men in unhealthy relationships because no one is satisfied. Bottom line is this brother’s should step up their game when it comes to leadership skills and sisters need to step up their beauty standards. No one is saying you have to be a super model or the brother has to be Donald Trump but to strive for excellence can only make things better for all.
Wa Alaikum A Salaam,
Nah Rasheed I am not encouraging obesity. Obesity is a health issue. Aside from its aesthetic unpleasantness (based on our beauty standards) it is a problem that affects many systems of the body. Diabetes, hypertension, depression, respiratory problems are all linked to obesity. But Ron didn’t raise the issue on health concerns. You used the word obesity which is actually a medical term. Ron raised the issue on aesthetics. Also just because I talk about how some Men are cool with a woman’s weight whatever it is doesn’t mean that I encourage being overweight. There are two components…aesthetics and health. Ron was talking about aesthetics. Health is a different story.
But what’s funny is that we talk about women in terms of being overweight and how brothers don’t like that but have you seen some of these brothers? Alot of brothers are overweight themselves! Look at all these uncles in the masjid. They are no prize physically. We have a fat society period. Let’s not lay chunkiness at the foot of the mother (a not so subtle play on the hadith).
But the most problematic part of your post Rasheed is your statement: “Bottom line is this brother
Maybe my reasoning and analogy are suspect but my point is that main factor that women discuss in finding a suitable mate is income or wealth accumulation.
People can be well-rounded spiritually without having a mate but the true test involves your relationship with fellow human beings and most importantly with Allah, your spouse, family, and children.
Otherwise this is all theoritical. That is why I focused on something real like physical attraction and income.
I know the men must step up, but they also have to be given a chance with the sisters.
Personally, I was/am not a finished product when my wife gave me the benefit of the doubt.
It seems that some sisters are not giving brothers who have good intentions a fair shake.
Salaam
There are materialistic/shallow people in the world. Men and women. I think we agree on that.
Maybe this is what the women in your circles discuss when reflecting on the state of affairs but it’s not universal, it certainly isn’t the case in my experience. If you look at the original article, none of the sisters interviewed complained about how much money their suitors made, their dissatisfaction was with things like deen and neanderthal attitudes about gender.
In my experience, the most vehement discussions about income as a criterion when it comes to suitability come into play when dealing with the phenomenon of brothers who DON’T/WON’T work and still feel that they are eligible bachelors.
My husband was pretty much broke when I met him. He had a steady job with benefits, though it didn’t pay that much, an apartment and a very strong work ethic and sense of ambition. That was fine with me. Contrast that with the brothers who asked for my hand with (I am not making this up) no job and no plan to find one. This is not an isolated case, it happens all the time in certain communities. Something is wrong when this becomes common enough that it’s tolerated and even worse when a sister has to fight for the right to *basic* maintenance in a marriage. And then we jump all over them for “being to picky”, being “materialistic” or “not having their priorities straight” if they won’t settle for somebody who doesn’t have the stability or maturity to be a man.
In my case, there were other brothers who were solid and even wealthy financially who came asking, but I didn’t marry them either. One brother neglected his elderly mother, one (make that two) were twice my age and had the tendency to always be on the prowl for the next PYT–and the list of horrors go on and on.
This is not to say there aren’t a bunch of good, solid brothers out there–because I know there are. But we tolerate a lot of nonsense in some of our communities, and it’s time to hold the knuckleheads accountable and put an end to the madness. And stop placing the burden for our problems solely on the shoulders of the sisters.
I gotta say I am DEFIANTLY single and in my late 20’s. I refuse to marry down. I just want an equal. I am a practicing Muslim, educated, employed, no trail of kids behind me, and i take care of myself physically. Why is that such a tall order these days? Why is it hard to find a pious, working brother whose teeth aren’t different colors or pointing in three different directions, and who can read?
Rasheed,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but not all women use the big bone theory as an excuse. For some women, they have to maintain a certain amount of body weight to match their body frame .If you’re at a certain age a certain weight and height, there is a certain body frame that a person is suppose to meet because if not it’s not going to make them look right. Some doctors may tell you that .Sometimes meeting the body frame may seem like they want to be in that position, but it isn’t always be the case.
Secondly, when you mention obesity, you have to consider how they became that way. Not every woman can help their condition. I knew a woman who was overweight, but it didn’t come from over eating. Her’’s came from an overactive thyroid condition.Pregnancy also put weight on you and some of women will tell you that losing baby fat can be hard for them to lose.
Even if it wasn’t the case, should that be the most important element in a long lasting marriage?That kind of thought bothers me. I wouldn’t want to be with a guy who only base me on outward appearances. To me, when a man have think like this, it won’t be long before he’ll hound you about it , insult you and eventually may leave you because of it.If they only base me on that, then they we’re never serious about marriage in the first place.
Salam, I want to clarify something must the brother/sister be on the same standing in terms of education to his/her partner? What seems strange to me is that the sister doing a MSc _must_ marry someone who is likewise doing a a MSc, how absurd! Why can’t she settle with someone who has completed a BS, many kuffar women marry down, meaning the women marry someone who isn’t on the same level in terms of education.
Brother Dash,
I agree that marriage is much deeper than beauty and bucks, but I totally disagree with the standard of weight being applied to men. Men are not judged primarily on their physical appearance but their ability to provide, and keep the family unit stable. Of course if the brother is in good shape that is a good thing and is a bonus but judging men by the same standards that women are judged is a mistake. But when it comes to beauty if the woman is less than average she should understand that she has to compensate with other tangible things such as a pleasant and cooperative attitude ect. Because the harsh reality that no one wants to admit is this. Why would any man put up with a woman that is older, overweight and giving him attitude when he has the ability to reach down and get someone more pleasant and physically attractive? The reason men typically prefer older women in some cases is for one reason, the maturity level. And even then if the brothers leadership skills are on point he can always mold a younger woman to be more mature. I’m not trying to be cold and say “hey when the sister gets old throw her away.” Ma3adhallah, no what I’m saying is as sisters age and their beauty fades they need to be conscious of that and consistently improve other areas of their life being more cooperative and even more respectful being mindful of the reality that there are always new and younger prospects that she has to compete with. I know the sisters hate to hear that but it’s reality. Just as it is a reality for men that if they don’t stay on top of their financial game, and spend enough time and attention on the sister they risk loosing the sister. The sooner we face these realities and stop sugar coating things the better our situation will be.
@ Peaches,
Continuing on the above if a sister has weight issues she should be mindful of that, change her diet and exercise, and if after all that she is still a little on the big side then she should be mindful of that and compensate in other areas. BTW I am not advocating crash diets for sisters that stuff is nonsense your body needs food to sustain itself and you store more fat when you don’t eat. But you can be selective about what you eat and the portions you intake. I know many a sister who had an over active thyroid due to an over active appetite. In addition to making your man happy you will feel better about yourself creating a happier more stable household. But most of us just want to wallow in self pity always blaming somebody else for our messed up relationships, situations, ect.
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A Salaamu Alaikum,
Ron I agree with your clarification.
Rasheed I disagree with your emphasis on looks and the need for her to compensate. There is a beauty standard in this country that is “mainstream” or white and then there are cultural beauty standards like those most African-American Men prefer. There have been tons of studies done on the negative effect the white beauty standard has had on society. That has not stopped the proliferation of image problems for Women (including white women themselves) and people of color in particular. We all know of the doll test. A white baby doll and a black baby doll placed side-by-side and Black children overwhelmingly choosing the white baby doll to play with and attributing positive attributes to the white doll and negative ones to the black doll. We know about the issues of “black hair” and it being compared to the standard of white hair. We know about skin color. We know also about weight and the problems with magazines like Cosmo, Vogue and others. We can even put in the problems of image with rap videos and magazines like King Magazine with its emphasis on the supposed Black male standard of beauty for women endowed in certain areas in particular. So when you talk about beauty, body type and a sister being ‘realistic’ it makes me shudder because it feeds into the cycle of issues that plague this society.
The most important thing a sister can do for her beauty is to look at herself in the mirror and say “I am a creation of Allah and Allah’s creation is beautiful.” Insha Allah this will lead to love of herself. I’m not trying to sound like some motivational guru but you really need to love yourself. You need to see the beauty within you. That will then express itself naturally in your demeanor. People are naturally attracted to that which is good (I believe that’s a hadith actually). You will attract beauty if you first believe in yourself. To me weight is about health. Yes I know being overweight is considered unattractive in our society. And yes I know Men, myself included, are visual creatures. People are visual period but Men even moreso than women. And there are host of biological reaons for that not within the scope of this post so your post on the differences between Men and Women has not been lost on me. I majored in Sociology, it is still a great interest of mine, and I understand these concepts quite well and know them to be true. That being said Women especially need to be careful of selling themselves short physically. There are anectdoctal and perhaps true studies I”m not sure pointing out that some women who are overweight compensate for it by being sexually promiscous. The promiscuity makes them feel desired in a society that considers them undesirable and perhaps even loved. But it also devalues them and in the end causes more problems for them. So this is an example of why I shudder with the whole compensate thing.
Lose weight for yourself…for your health. Increase your knowledge for yourself…for your spiritual health. Both of these will in turn benefit those around you but don’t do it for others or else you will be living your life for someone else and that is unsustainable.
Business examples are not always transferable to your personal life. You may pursue an MBA because it will advance your career. The MBA is something an employer finds attractive (so in a sense you are doing it for the employer) but the benefit to you is a better job and thus a more comfortable lifestyle Insha Allah (something you do for you). But to apply that thinking to beauty and getting a husband because you’re a bit chunky but not funky? Eh…you run a big risk as far as your mental health.
But nonetheless I understand what you are saying Rasheed and I’m not trying to sugar coat anything. I know the locker room talk. I’m in the locker room but I know that I’m trying to elevate myself and step my game up (and I’m not talking about financially…alhamdulillah I’m good on that front right now…though I ain’t trying NOT to increase my wealth ya dig?). But my critical development that I am working on is internal and something that I should have done concurrent with my career development. Aight that was long enough.
Ma’a Salaama
You have got to be kidding me.
I have to agree with Rasheed.
I just came back from a family celebration of my cousin renewing her vows with husband of 10 years. We had over 100 guests. We had friends and relatives who came from several states to show their support. I drove over 5 hours to attend.
During the toast, many people came forward to express that they were inspired by their lifestyle, support and love for each other. More importantly, that they are a role model for our community.
I was really proud of my cousin and her husband for taking the time to reflect on this accomplishment. My cousin married a brother who stepped up to take care of his family and they are doing really well financially.
I mention this story to say that we should look to couples who are role models and study they have done to have success in their relationships.
Women should study the men who they admire for faith and commitment to their families.
Eventually, women should seek men with these same qualities that they admire in other men in successful marriages.
Salaam
I just came back from a family celebration of my cousin renewing her vows with her husband of 10 years. We had over 100 guests. We had friends and relatives who came from several states to show their support. I drove over 5 hours to attend.
During the toast, many people came forward to express that they were inspired by their lifestyle, support and love for each other. More importantly, that they are a role model for our community.
I was really proud of my cousin and her husband for taking the time to reflect on this accomplishment. My cousin married a brother who stepped up to take care of his family and they are doing really well financially.
I mention this story to say that we should look to couples who are role models and study they have done to have success in their relationships.
Women should study the men who they admire for faith and commitment to their families.
Eventually, women should seek men with these same qualities that they admire in other men in successful marriages.
Salaam
Just to clarify so I am not misunderstood I am not for women beating themselves up because they don’t fit the super model profile nor am I for women “compensating” sexually turning themselves into hoes.
The point I am trying to make is that men and women are valued differently. When I say compensate I mean her attitude, her ability to bring tranquility to the home, her ability to remain composed in a time of family crisis. Those are the tangibles that I am referring to that have nothing to do with beauty or sex because at least in my mind those two are considered non-tangible. Because both beauty and sex are a fleeting thing that doesn’t bring anything of substance to your life. Put it like this I woman who is a 5 on the physical radar can become 8 just by compensating with her demeanor and I know many will attest to this. How many men have been attracted to a less attractive female just because of her good attitude. Unfortunately many less attractive women have even worse attitudes because of their insecurities.
Ma Sha Allah I think I’ve exhausted the topic as well…
Good Look @ Ruquyah
@ Brother Dash
I see you doing your thing Ak, Ma Sha Allah I put a link to your site on my blog. Always down to support my aks stepping up in the game.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum,
@ Irisblue - I don’t know where you’re at, but those bad experiences that you’ve attracted seem to be extreme.
Where did you meet these guys at? Do you have a wali that is assisting in looking for a decent, educated husband for you?
The Prophet (SAAS) said, “There is no [valid] marriage without permission of a guardian, and the leader (sultan) is the guardian for whoever doesn’t have a guardian.”
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Especially for sisters that have never been married before, I think that sometimes sisters run into these problems because they are not utilizing a wali. Doing it solo is the wrong way.
Your wali can ask around about the brother and interview him. Heck, even do a background check on him if needed. If I were a sister, I would do one of those on-line background checks to peep out his criminal record, if he has any dependents and his credit score. They aren’t expensive. Brothers should do it as well.
A sincere brother would try to find out who your wali is instead of trying to step to you and “spit game” on the solo tip anyway.
WALLAHU `Alim.
Wassalaam
Rasheed,
I hope that if I please my man, it would be about me and not about what I look like. If I did take care of me it would be because I want to and not because of what he thinks I should look like unless I ask him about it.
Even though I can care less about marriage/relationships at this moment( if ever, I’m getting immune to the single life,) if I wanted to be married to a man who would stick with me through the thick and the thin and I would want to do the same. The kind of man that I would want would find me beautiful withouthair, whether I’m at 120-200lbs and who just know the elements of a good marriage.
Oddly, almost 95 percent of the time ,the men that I’ve dated( when I was dating) seen me at my WORST. While I’m not saying that I looked like a baglady, I just wore a scarf( not a hijab) on my head, no make-up a T shirt and jogging pants when going to the store doing my stress walk around the school tracks. For some odd reason they thought that I was attractive in spite of it( at least that I was told by them). I’ve never had a problem attracting men this way.The other five they have seen me fixed up.I do this when I go to work ,school, or some important event. Still I only wear lipstick and occasional eye liner and still get the same amount of ” what up’s” from them and always have ( very unfortunately) a 10 year old( I promise you that I didn’t do anything to arouse their attention) and now as an almost 40 year old woman. I just want to be comfortable and realistic with myself.
On the other hand, I will agree that true beauty is in the inside. One can look like a showpiece all they want, but if they have a rotten personalities/mouth they are no longer beautiful.
“The Prophet (SAAS) said,
Here’s the thing Rasheed: where someone falls on the beauty scale is subjective.
And I feel sorry for your wife if you don’t feel it’s important for a man to look his best for her because he’s supposedly judged on other things. I feel sorry for your daughters if you have any if they are “less than average” in someone’s eyes if your message to them is that they have to be extra nice to make up for their homeliness. The Prophet’s sunnah, Allah bless him and give him peace, was to be very conscientious about how he looked, smelled, and the rest at all times. Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), mentioned how he liked to look good for his wife the way he liked her to look good for him. All the qualities men want in their women, easy on the eye, pleasant demeanor, responsible, pious, etc (not necessarily in that order), trust me, the women want and should not be ashamed to demand in a husband. Remember he is supposed to be helping her maintain her chastity too.
For all those older, heavier sisters, who are being encouraged to either settle or “compensate” to bribe some man into thinking you have anything special to offer, remember that our dear mother Saudah (may Allah be pleased with her) was both “older” and “heavy-set”. And she sure didn’t have to settle for someone who was less than the cream of the crop. Al hamdulillah.
Also, on the wali issue–whole other conversation. Many times the so-called walis are part of the problem. Not looking out for the sister’s interest, encouraging her to marry the first man who will have her, using his amanah to hook his friends up even if they are losers, etc. A sister I know was introduced to and encouraged to marry a brother by the imam of a masjid (supposed wali)–turns out when *she* questioned him she found out that he didn’t even pray. Good that her “guardian” was there, right? They are supposed to be a part of the solution, no?
There are many good walis out there, al hamdulillah I had one but the losers still didn’t feel any shame in approaching him. Now he (or I) weren’t having any of that, but still, having a wali ain’t no guarantee that the deadbeats will not approach. Especially if you are unfortunate to have a wali who is not your ally.
Just also meant to say…people should be affable and gregarious because those are wonderful qualities for a Muslim to have, not because they have to compensate for their physical “defects”.
I totally get what Rasheed is saying. There are alot of women complaining about the situation but, not enough of these sisters take responsibility when come to there role in this mess. Education is something that will get you money to support a family financially. But, when I married my husband, he didn’t have a degree. He’s a blue-collar worker. Most of his friends work in this field. and when I tried to introduce some of my friends to couple of these hardworking brothers, all of my girlfriends declined because, they wanted a man with a degree. These brothers bring in at least $60,000-70,000 a year but because, these brothers don’t have master degree in engineering. Their overlooked. I know couple of them don’t even have kids. Wuz up with that?
Why are you guys lying to women. Its so cruel. Fact, most men do not like overweight women. Just like most women do not like poor men(unless very good looking), short men, or bald men or extremely shy and nerdy men.
Everyone has faults that need to be compensated for. Men actually have more to overcome then women.
Rasheed,
Thanks for the shout out. Jazak Allah Khair
Anon,
Read more carefully. No one is “lying” to anyone. Guess what? The beauty standard in this country is of the White, blonde, buxom, not too intelligent, female. That is the standard. So are you saying that intelligent Black Women who are a size 10 need to “compensate” for not being white and blonde? What I see in this discussion is proof positive of how far we still need to go.
And this discussion no one is referencing an Islamic model. We are still judging people based off of the way we interact as mainstream citizens. I mean the whole idea of an Islamic relationship is one really of ‘courtship’. That is a completely different model from dating. And let’s get real that is what you are referencing. Not the ‘dating’ part but the attitude that comes with it. In dating you are not really getting into the person’s mind…hopes…dreams…ambitions…or even their background. When your entire history has been where you interact with Men and Women in a carefree NON-COURTSHIP model and now you are Muslim how can you not still be greatly influenced by that paradigm? Unless you take concrete steps INTERNALLY you will still be influenced by that. But back to the topic.
Let us not forget the example of Julaybib the dwarf like deformed companion of the Prophet, sallahu alaihi wa salaam. He also was of unknown lineage (not good in Arab society). He had alot of strikes against him. But the Prophet, sallahu alaihi wa salaam, wanted him to marry a woman of the Ansar. While the Woman’s mother was flabbergasted, and the Father disturbed…hoping that the Prophet wanted to marry their daughter, this sister had so much love…so much taqwa that she agreed without hesitation. Julaybib was later killed after slaying 7 mushrikoon when out on an expedition with the Prophet, sallahu alaihi wa salaam. But we want people to ‘compensate’. No brothers and sisters…you improve yourself FOR yourself. You engage in a pursuit of an Islamic marriage in a holistic way. Am I saying physical characteristics mean nothing? No…the visual is what you first notice. If someone is unattractive then you don’t generally have an interest in finding out more about them. But I am not talking about first glances on the street. I am talking about situations where you are informed of the wonderful traits of this person and still cling to beauty standards which many times are influenced by greater sociological factors like race, culture, colonialism, the media etc…Everyone has their tastes. Everyone has preferences…but in this discussion I kept asking myself…what makes the Muslims any different than anyone else? Seems like the same boyfriend/girlfriend pardigm in a thobe and jilbab.
Education is not just about money, its about compatibility also, an educated woman and blue-collar worker are an unlikely match.
I dont know how some men can have the audacity to look for a wife without having a steady income.
Far as a blue collar not having steady work, that isn’t true. Some of them make just as much or even more than their white collar counterparts. I know many blue collar workers who have been on their jobs for 30 plus years, ( if they haven’t been laid off in these economic times) and who can make just as much as a some white collar worker. on the other side of the coin, there are white collar workers who don’t even make as much as they do. There are some teachers, for example, who don’t even make as much as a construction worker. My cousin husband makes as much as such does and has been on his job for 20 years. Anybody can have a steady income.
What does one education has to with compatibility? one can have all of the education and jobs all they want, but if they do not understand the elements of it a marriage it’s still no good. Although my cousin has dated college-educated and non educated men, at the end she was with her current blue collar husband. my family only cared about the character about the man. He’s nice, family oriented, humble, and a good provider and I just don’t only mean materialism. Other than title’s a power, I’m still trying to distinguish the differences between them.
A white collar woman( or vice versa) and a blue collar man can be a likely match. . It shouldn’t matter if he’s a blue collar/white collar worker, if he’s a well rounded person that is what counts.Far as my former dating life, I’ve also dated on both sides of the coin.
Here is my example of why I don’t put try to put titles in a good man: One of my ex’s is an pediatrician. Ok, he’s a college educated I almost have my degree, but we couldn’t /didn’t click..He was( still is) the devil! He was very possessive and didn’t want me to work. He had that prehistoric way of thinking. I got rid of him( And from what I recently heard, his current wife are legally separated for the same thing.Poor thing I know the feeling) If I was one of those women who based compatibility on his education, I would have been duped. He wasn’t a good suitor in no kind of waybecause of his stupid thoughts about women. When it comes to a good man, whether white collar/blue collar, I would just want a well rounded guy, like the one my cousin have.
What does one education has to with compatibility?
It can have quite a bit to do with it actually. While I don’t agree that it’s an automatic given that an “educated” woman and a “blue collar” worker wouldn’t be compatible–there certainly *can* be issues. And vice versa–similar class/education backgrounds does not guarantee a good match. It really depends on the people. I do agree with Kalimat–education isn’t necessarily about money only. And certainly “blue collar” workers can in fact be “educated” as well. But still–I can see that there are sometimes instances where class/education level/lifestyle of the prospective couple affects compatibility. And before people get all upset and assume that means the people must be shallow–they should remember the marriage of Zaynab bint Jahsh and Zaid ibn Harithah, may Allah be pleased with them both. Both very pious people, but they were from different segments of society and this contributed to their incompatibility. Sometimes that’s just life.
It’s like other factors–take racial or cultural background. While it certainly is possible for people from different cultures to marry and find harmony, we can’t pretend that different backgrounds are not often a stumbling block. Some people can get past it given the right person, some people can’t–or maybe they don’t find the right mate that would enable them to overcome this issue. To again reference my own situation, I was willing in theory to marry a good Muslim outside of my race, but the one time where it became a real possibility the ignorance of the person’s family was a barrier that neither one of us had the ability, or speaking for myself, the desire, to try and overcome.
I sorry that just not an excuse to not give a brother a chance. my husband has a strong DC accent and works in the blue collar field. When he was first looking for a wife. He told me some sisters assumed that he was dumb or couldn’t have “intellectual conversation” . When he would speak. Sisters would put him in the loser category. Little did they know. My husband is majoring in Electrical Engineering at College Park and was in boarding schools his whole life. He just not into looking like something he is not. Its just no excuse because someone doesn’t have a degree that you look down on them or not give them a chance. I’m sorry its a stupid way of thinking. Give a brother a chance. My father was blue-collar. And outside of his jobs he was always in the books. If we think like some sisters. That would mean Bill Gates wouldn’t be container for marriage. He didn’t have college degree. however, he owe Microsoft. I don’t mean to reference to a non-muslim but, I just trying to get across that you can’t judge a book by its cover or jobs. Especially if the jobs can provide the mean for average life style.
In reading all the comments about just finding (giviing a brother a chance) I am compelled to share my experiences thus far. I am a college educated sister educated at one of the best Universities in the this country.Now at 47 and Muslim I find myself alone and widowed , big and beautiful.(yes I said it),never suffering from low self esteem I have earned a good living ,not wanting to have children(but allah knows best) I am approached by brothers from all walks of life for marriage.The question I always ask first is “are you a good muslim”,do you pray,fast,dont lie,etc. They respond “yes I am a good muslim.” Ok then we can move on to the next phase of knowing each other in a Halal way only. So now the brother decides he wants to “date” me. I believe ‘why buy the cow when you get the milk for free’..Now I know you are not a good muslim,respectful muslim, and for this I tell him to “be gone”. Was I wrong to do this or should I have given the brother a chance? Should i give the Cardiac Surgeon a chance after he wants to get naked in front of the webcam,should I give the brother who wants to have his fantasies come true with two wives, a chance,how about the brother who engages in homosexual behavior and thinks nothng of it,how about the brother who tells you he has bad credit and that he must depend on you to sign for an apartment to live…but yet reminds you he is still a man. My response to him was he was not ready to marry,and should “fast and pray” and get his finances in order? They all claimed to be good praying,Allah fearing ,zakat giving,fasting ramadan muslims.I ,like all woman have a standard,which we have the right to”. Settle for less and less will settle for you”,you decide your less. Always love because you can not because you have to. Allah knows best. I got over myself long ago and now just need a God fearing muslim man who can engage me in conversation regarding Islam,be willing and able to at least provide the necessities, preparing for jenna with his wife wanting to live in this world and the next with his wife taking the good and bad ,believing Allah will guide us.