The Tension between Black Americans and Somalis
Ebony magazine recently had an article (not online) about the tensions between Somalis and black Americans in Columbus, Ohio. Charles and Jamerican Muslimah (part one and part two) have both commented on the situation since they live in Columbus, OH and Minneapolis (respectively) which are home to the two largest populations of Somalis in the US.
I have a few comments of my own below:
My personal experience with Somalis has been positive from the time the first group of refugees came to the US. (This isn’t to dismiss the experiences of others) I have met a ton of very good Somalis that are very caring. I can’t remember having said “salaam” to one and not having it returned. However, I am not naive enough to think that this is the case with all Somalis. Had most Somalis been like the ones I’ve met, it would be a very peaceful place, and Allah knows best.
I find this Ebony story to be a case study of the change in direction and perception of Islam and Muslims in America. Traditionally, Islam was seen as something that was fully a part of the black American (BA) community and even an expression of being “conscious” or a “deep thinker”. There were several positive portrayals of Muslims in pop culture in the early 1990s that reflected the image of a “Muslim” in the black community. There are many BAs with names like Jamal and Rasheed and refraining from pork was seen as something “conscious” and authentically “black”.
Nowadays, Islam and Muslims (even in the BA community) are associated with being foreign or alien - and this is not all the media’s fault. In many places outside the Northeast like the Twin Cities, Columbus, Houston, and Dallas, to be Muslim is to be Somali, Pakistani or Arab (depending on the dominating ethnic group of the city) and to be Somali, Pakistani or Arab is to be Muslim. In other words, when one says “Arab” or “Somali”, they mean “Muslim” and when they say “Muslim”, they mean “Arab” or “Somali”. So when a non-Muslim spends years in the Twin Cities and every Muslim they have met has been Somali, why should we get angry when they associate Muslim with being Somali when that person has seen nothing different? This is why they will ask an American Muslim upon seeing them (especially a woman) if they need a translator or speak very slowly assuming they don’t speak English very well. They just don’t associate Islam with being American and don’t mean anything by it. There is no need to have a chip on our shoulders about being mistaken for foreign (I have been mistaken for Somali myself even by other Somalis who walk up to me speaking the Somali language) when they dominate the “Islam” in a particular city.
For this reason, a black, white, Latino and other converts living in places like that are increasingly seen as somehow enthralled with another culture - essentially no different than a Samari enthusiast for example. With that in mind, Islam is certainly not seen as an option since (in their minds) becoming Muslim means adopting a new culture. It is like saying “becoming Chinese” or “becoming Russian”. I knew that things were changing a few years ago when I met a BA teenager in Memphis that thought that Islam was a place and Muslims were an ethnic group. Islam/Muslim has essentially become a race that is a catch all for Desi, Arab or Somali. So to become Muslim in the Twin Cities is to essentially “become Somali”. I just wonder if Islam in the US is forever to be alien now.
Finally, the greatest tragedy of this BA vs Somali issue is that because of the positive image of Islam in the early 1990s, many BAs were prepared to embrace their African brothers and sisters (the Somalis) and probably feel a rejected. Had most BAs been treated like I was, there would be a very different story today.
Filed under: Black American Muslims
There has been a similar problem in the UK between some groups of Afro-Caribbeans, West Africans and Somalis for quite some time, though it largely appears to be at the level of “the gang”. I don’t know that religion plays any significant role. What I do know is that there are huge mental health issues within the Somali community - as you would expect of refugees experiencing conflict, alienation and family break-down. I think if we delved into the issue a little more, we might find the tensions between groups are a superficial symptom. Underlying it will be a huge range of other issues, particular to the experience of each group.
I think you may have a point. I come from Philly, which, as you know has a very huge BA Muslim population. I never had anyone, black or white, in Philly assume I was an immigrant or had immigrant parents. I live in Cleveland now where there are a lot of Arab Muslims and a good number of South Asian Muslims as well. There’s a considerable number of African Muslims too. When BAs see me, especially if they’re not Muslim, they ask me where I’m from and are usually shocked when I tell them that I’m black.
It isn’t just a problem with BAs either though. I went to Case, which has a pretty big population of Arab and South Asian students as well. I’ve had Arab and South Asians ask me “Where are you from?” Being incredibly naive I would say “Philly” and they would say “Where are your parents from?” I thought it was so weird because I never encountered that in Philly. Then when I thought about it, it made sense.
There aren’t a lot of BA Muslims here. Islam is commonly associated with Arabs and more specifically Palestinians among BAs and themselves among immigrants. The BAM you do commonly see, exception being followers for WDM, are really dysfunctional and the women are often niqabis in black. I appear stable and often wear Western clothing, so it doesn’t occur in people’s mind that I’m BA until I tell them. It took awhile but I realized it wasn’t a slight. Like, you said, they don’t associate Islam with being American. I do wonder though, how we can combat that. In reality, Islam has been part of the American experience for a long time.
And I as, yes, a whitey female convert, am always amazed at the automatic question that arises when I say I am Muslim: Oh, (they nod knowingly as if it all makes sense) you’re married to an Arab. When I say …. no, never married to an Arab. (love seeing where all this goes) Then they say oh, you are married to an African American. And I say, no, never married to anyone. And they can’t find this even remotely tenable. How could a woman convert to Islam without doing to to get/keep a specific man? Like women only embrace a faith as the Womens Auxilliary” and they will presumably throw out the faith if the marriage fails. Is this two-dimensional thinking or what?
Tariq I have to disagree with you say “They just don
@ Jamerican
I certainly am not condoning people discriminating or talking bad to people. I am speaking of making an honest mistake and correcting them in a nice way. What I am saying is that a person can go a long time without meeting a non-Somali Muslim in Twin Cities.
Some converts also haven’t helped matters by speaking in an affected accent and fueling the very strong perception that Islam is for foreigners.
In many cases they refuse to look past their original perception even after they know different. They
Somalis come from a very strict caste/tribal/clan culture. So your ancestry is more important than your Islam.
Many will pretend that being a muslim is all that is necessary. However, we know that is devoid of reality in relations among different ethnicities in the Muslim community.
I say we should embrace the diversity and maintain the diversity. I am more comfortable in an AfricanAmerican masjid versus a South Asian or Arab or Somali.
Somalis consider black americans nothing more than bantus. Even if they happen to be designated as bantus in Somalia themselves.
Somalis cannot even get along with each other so we should not expect them to get along with AA muslims.
South Africans and Kenyans should look long and hard about allowing them to remain n their countries.
Salaam
Ron
“South Africans and Kenyans should look long and hard about allowing them to remain n their countries”
What do you mean and why should they not remain in Kenya and SA?
The Somalis seem to be anti-black so why should they be in black countries. Unfortuantely, they consider themselves above bantu type peoples so why stay in countries with bantu type people.
It is not like South Africans and Kenyans do not already sense this in some way.
Salaam
Somalis should not be generalised by the actions of a few. Here in the UK, there is also that sort of problem, and some of the older less educated somalis are racist, in my own family I find myself occasionally remonstrating with older members on their use of language when referring to blacks. Even though we know we’re black aswell, as a Somali I have to say I feel more closer to black muslims than others, that in it itself is wrong as true islam transcends race.
Salaam
“In many cases they refuse to look past their original perception even after they know different. They
Well i think its good for somalis to be living in other African countries because it will challenge some of their racist views. There is a large Somali Bantu community in Ohio and they get on well with somalis from other tribes.
Even though I’ve met a lot of East Africans just about in all areas of metro ATL, They are more predominate in Clarkston/Stone Mountain Georgia. There, you will encounter all sorts of Muslims from Somalia, Iraq, Bosnia AA’s and some other parts of the the Muslim world .You’ll also see other different nationalities there as well.
Though I do not live out there, used to work in the area. I was approached by mostly Ethiopians. I’ll never forget one bizarre incident that took place when I was going shopping in the area. There was this older Ethiopian woman( and more likely that she was because of her name. It seemed like that of an Ethiopian persuasion) who kept calling out a name. Initially, I didn’t respond. I though that she was talking to the other two Ethiopian woman near me. She called the name again and againn I didn’t respond. Then she slowly approached me and said “( I cannot spell the name), “I was calling your name and…..” I had to stop her because I didn’t want her to be led on. When she realized that I wasn’t her daughter, she apologized and told me that I looked like her child. No big deal. She wouldn’t be the only to do and she probably wont be the last. My nationality have been a life long mystery to some people since birth.
It’s doesn’t bother me. If people isn’t mistaken me for an East African, on the African Amercian side, it’s the same thing, but oddly, they ask about my “accent”. Some do not think that I’m Southern or even American at times I didn’t try fake it. I guess working in Clarkston did it for me.
Far as Ethiopians( that I encounter) or the Somalis that I’ve met, I havent encountered the ugliness from them although I’ve heard two Somali guys didn’t get why people didn’t refer to him as Black? Oh well.
When I read artcles that relates to the demise of cultures, I become truobled by it. Sure, there all culture have their own intercultural conflicts, but in our communities, it seem to be far more pronounced. Several years back,and kept a newspaper article about African/AA’s relations and another that was simliar to this about it on the AUCenter campus. I just nodded my head because I find it to be senseless. It’s like we’re telling people” It must really be bad being Black.”
Some people may blame language barriers, cultural difficulties and so on with these problems. Maybe, but some of these same people( on either side) will also tell you how they may get along with another group better, than they will. To me ,if you can get along with one group , you can get along with all. Not long ago, I’ve mentioned about a Cabo-Verdean/ Senegalese guy I worked with. In his country, he’s not considered to be black because of his background. He has not always been fluent in English, but he was one of the most popular most well liked man among everybody, including AA’s. Why?He was a very friendly guy, he was very down to earth and far as as his blackness, once he came to the US, learned who he was and didn’t downplay it. To me, he could pass for a East African or biracial. The odd thing about him was that he said he still only spoke 95 percent English and at times I spoke something in English to help him, but he was a well liked guy because of his personality.
If people want to use cultural backgrounds as as barrier to good relationships, it’s a partial cop out. To pretend that understanding each other may be a challenging, me be frustrating, but when it comes to it being anti-black, American, East African or what ever the case may be, that’s not a cultural thing it’s a personal thing. Some of us want to live in our safe zones and believe the worst in people and not look for the truth. The “truth” is on unfounded generalizations, bad experiences or what somebody said about so and so.
Having an ex African ex( Though of West African descent), people would ask me how did I deal with that man? Even though he’s now a complete idiot to me now, I tell them that I wanted a relationship,( who was I fooling?Geez!) Some wanted to say that his his Africaness did it in. Even though there are some African men who are very traditionalist, there are also others who are in their culture, but at the same time aren’t like my ex. I liked his culture, but I didn’t like HIM as a person. There is a bg difference between personality and his culture. Far as his chauvanism, it’s in all cultures, but he didn’t get me. I dumped him because he was a fool, not because of his culture.I also view others in this same manner. There is good and bad on all sides. We have to be realistic about it and learn how to deal with it.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Re Somalis in Kenya:
Although there are a lot of Somalis now in Nairobi and other Kenyan cities which are historically Bantu, a large area of Kenya is historically predominantly Somali (i.e. the areas on or near the border, excluding Lamu). This is because the colonial border was drawn in a straight line, with the British taking what was west of the line and the Italians what was east of it.
Indeed! Yusuf Smith.
I believe Ron has dual identity in this Website. And intentionally making this comment.
Fatima -
What is a dual identity? You sound like another typical conspiracy theorist.
That land the the somalis occupy in Kenyan does not belong to the somalis. Somalis enslavement campaigns created that haven where somalis reside.
Somalis try to claim many areas from ethiopia to kenya.
That is beyond the point of this blog.
Somalis cannot get away with treating bantu people in the US one way and then think that no consequences will occur where other bantu people reside.
As an African American, I am fully aware of the silent war Somalis have against the bantu people.
I personally do not have any problems with Somalis. I have been around Somalis all my life, but I understand them and never will submit.
Nigerians, Ghanians, Liberians, South Sudanese, South Africans, Kenyans all know about this issue.
If Somalis treat AA with respect and fall in line as a family member everything will be cool and we can move on like the family we really are.
African Americans accepted Iman with open arms for the most part. African Americans are a loving people, but we are waking up as a people also. We will not be pushed around.
We talk about the Somali issue.
Salaam
Ron,
If you never had problems with Somalis, yet wrote here what so far wrote, you are plain hypocrite.
You would not have been around Somalis, if they had not treated you with respect?
You did not force them to do so. They WANT to respect you. You must use your experience with them as a way of understanding them, instead of believing what have been said about them.
”Somalis try to claim many areas from Ethiopia to Kenya. That is beyond the point of this blog”
Your dislike for the Somalis, as quite evident in your posts, should not blind you to historical facts.
As for the Bantu, remember Somali Bantus are Somalis too. They just belong to different tribe. Granted they are treated sometimes differently, but so the rest of the Somalis treat each other differently, in terms of marriages etc. TO my knowledge Somali Bantus are not looked on down
”As an African American, I am fully aware of the silent war Somalis have against the bantu people”
This really made me laugh very loudly!
Relax, Ron. Nobody is being engaged war against the Bantu people. This is your perception of the Somalis. They are busy building up their lives in an strange land. They do not really pay much attention to what you think or say about them.
Fatima -
Good for you and Somalis.
Ron are you serious?
Conspiracy theory to say the least.
You know what there will always be something:
“Bantus” vs somalis
African Americans vs “smelly” Africans (of which of course somalis are part off)
Muslims Vs non muslims
Pick and choose your battle I suppose LOL
Im sorry for your views and perceptions but perhaps you will find like not all white people from the deep south are KKK flag waving lunatics not all somalis have issues with “bantus”
YOU ARE CRAZY chico
Salaams
Peace and love and may God (whatever religion you maybe) give peace to your soul.
Marion -
I am not moved. Just do the research and do not distort my position.
I never used “all” or “every” Somali. I am sure you are a typical negationist who thinks blacks should just ignore racism. (There is no racism in Brazil or Mexico).
I am sorry for being such a crazy person in need of your superior wisdom.
Give me something new and not tired and boring retorts.
Salaam
Dearest Ron
I was simply humoring you nothing more, and you got all that out of my “boring retort” I’m amazed, I have to say.
I feel no need to give you facts or figures or indeed any “new” information as I’m sure you already have them all!
Love from your friend with the superior wisdom
Mac salaam
Oh and Ron
If you want an actual discussion then just let me know
If you dont then all the same.
salaam
Having read the dozens of ranging views that have been presented on this issue within Tariq, Charles’ and Jamerican Muslimah’s blog. I would like to state the following:
1) As Muslims we should always try to put the best construction on the behaviour of others and try and find excuses for others misbehaviour. We are all guilty of falling way short off this mark.
2) Labelling entire nations as Racists or Anti this or that is: 1) Potentially Slanderous and 2 ) Inaccurate
3) It must be noted that many of the Somalis we are encountering in the West, as mentioned above, are refugees and are struggling and the last thing on their minds is matters relating to other communties
4) It’s easy to criticise and condemn but alot harder to construct solutions.
Having said all this I think that one of the saddest things about this saga has been that the benefit that could have been derived from Jamerican Muslimah raising this topic seems to have been completely lost. It’s a bit like the John travolta film ‘White Man’s burden’ (1995) which is a story that takes place in an alternative America where the blacks are members of the social elite, and whites are inhabitants of inner city ghettos. The message that the film sought to convey never fully penetrated the thoughts of the audience because the style of delivery i.e the film narrative was so poor. Thus this meant that although the film was a good idea it can never be redone again because it has already been done.
The same applies to this topic. The message was important but the Jamerican Muslimah’s style of delivery didn’t quite convey the issues at hand, such that the audience would fully appreciate matters. It only led to the belief that it has been raised to ‘divide the Ummah’ or she has a ‘chip on her shoulders’.
I think that this East African Immigrant - African American/African Caribbean misunderstanding issue is something that will only increase in magnitude in the coming decades, bithnillah (although I pray and hope I’m proved wrong). Tariq is often talking about the Muslim community having a culture of denial. In my opinion our approach to jamerican muslimah’s comments fit into that category. Unless there are concerted efforts ‘NOW’ to raise a mature, balanced, respectful and HONEST dialogue there will be continued misunderstanding, misinformation and tension.
In many parts of the UK, the level of tension between East African and ‘Black’ (I.E. African Caribbean/West African) communities is at a critical juncture. Both West and East African (not African caribbean) communities numbers are increasing greatly due to immigration and/or birth rates. African Caribbeans/West Africans/East Africans i.e the ‘blacks’ (by western standards) are all dumped together here.
There are one or two painful truths that I feel will need to be stated. I will explain one of the many factors that contributes to the tension i.e perception:
1) In the West, there is a concept called the ‘One drop rule’ i.e one drop of African blood nullifies one’s whiteness. Thus anyone who has any visible sign that they are of african origin is perceived as being of the tribe called the ‘Black people’.
2) Visible signs of ‘being of the ‘black people’ or ‘blackness’ (as it is most commonly termed) relates not only to features but ALSO skin complexion. It EVEN relates to those who may have non-’african’ features and are light skinned. If it is perceptible that an individual is of African heritage and is other than European, Asian, Arab,Latino or some other ‘tribe’, then they are put into the basket of ‘blackness’.
N.B. It is also possible to be perceived as being of the ‘Black people’ tribe whilst being of another ‘tribe’ i.e. Tribal status for those who are of the black people ‘tribe’ is not exclusive, thus the terms Black Arab, Black Latino, Black British, Black American etc!
3) Due to historical and situational circumstances in the West, African Americans and African Caribbeans generally deem their FIRST level of ‘tribal’ identity to be that of being ‘Black’. Thus based upon the abovementioned points 1 and 2, anybody who fulfills the criteria in points 1 and 2 is a fellow ‘tribesman’. Historical experience has taught us that regardless of our social status, language, education, outlook, looks, attitude or religion if we meet the criteria of points 1 and 2 we are ‘in the same boat’ i.e just a black man or woman in the EYES of the dominant majority. Also, historically we have not only been PERCEIVED as being in the same boat, we have been TREATED as if we’re in the same boat. Thus even if someone personally felt that they are not in the same boat, events would occur that would remind one whose ‘tribe’ you were actually in.
4) In Africa people already have well established tribal systems. Only those nations who truly bore the full brunt of the European racial constructions adopted or at least appreciated the idea of ‘blackness’ as a tribal moniker. Nevertheless, even those nations would retain their own identification system above and before that of ‘blackness’. Examples of communities who this particularly applies to are Zimbabweans & South Africans(Notwithstanding the whole concept of ‘coloured’)!
Other parts of Africa were less affected by the Western construction of ‘blackness’. Based upon the degree of exposure people adopted this notion of blackness. In some parts of Africa the concept of ‘blackness’ NEVER affected the people at all. This applies to much of Cushitic East Africa.
Based upon this we understand that at the foundational level, African Americans/Caribbean / & immigrant Africans perceptions of each others identity are diametrically different. One group (AA/ACs) see ‘fellow’ black tribesmen, the other groups (Imm Afs) see ’separate’ tribesmen.
It is inevitable that in coming to the Western World where all these ‘black’ groups are lumped together and perceived as the same by the majority group whilst perceiving each other differently there will be tension.
AAs/ACs have to accept that their perception of ‘blackness’ is not an absolute perception. Recent immigrant Africans will have to realise that whether they like it or not, in the West they are PERCEIVED as and will be treated as the ‘blacks’.
Therefore they will all have to find a way to acknowledge that they WILL be living alongside each other. It makes sense to start some sort of dialogue so that communities begin to understand each others history, outlook and expectations.
I have not meant to focus on the negatives but I feel that history is what makes a people and that perception is one of the factors that will affect communities dealings with each other.
Is there a race AA don’t have tension with? Somalis are peaceful people and I think we all know where the blame lies on this one……And Ron you really need to STFU!!
I have nothing but admiration for Somalis.
They may be “rough” but they are also hard working and far more principled than some other groups that I have encountered.
Their indomitable will is also something that I cannot help but to admire.
Hey ron, I am a somali 4th generation born in Kenya living in Canada. . Kenya is my home, some of my family still lives there and they will live there for ever and ever……………
knowing my people, they are busy looking for ways to make money, business and establishing themselves. Somalis are very friendly people, and not all somalis are bad. I have no problem with any humanbeing.
I have seen you talking about somalis in another blog, you mention how they love to marry wazungu, I think you have issues with somalis, maybe jealousy……… Allahu Alim
I have one question, JE wewe ni mkikuyu uliyokataliwa na msichana wa kisomali? You should know North Eastern province belongs to somalia and if we leave kenya we take part of our country.
Amina -
Your comments reveal so much about you. You sound like a child.
AA will only submit to Allah. I will not submit to your nonsense
Naima -
Somalia will not take any land from Kenya (so spare me the colonial argument and other rabid nonsensical arguments.)
Somalia is already a failed state. Puntland should be your model.
The days of raiding and enslaving bantus are over.
You should be happy the Kenyans do not slaughter Somalis for supporting terrorists and trying to forcibly Arabize their country under the false pretense of spreading Islam.
Do not make terroritorial claims in Northeastern Kenya.
The South Africans have taken you in as well.
AA have taken you in as well. Do you know how many Somalis go to HBCUs.
I am trying to reach out to you.
I have no reason to be jealous of Somalis.
I am sorry the truth hurts and I am outspoken AA who tells it like it is.
I salute our brother and sisters in Africa who are fighting this scourge.
Stop being used as an agent against your own people for the agenda’s of non-blacks in the name of Islam.
Take off the blinders and learn tolerance and maybe Somali will recover from its chaos and you can go back to Somali and make it the great nation it is destined to be.
I love Somalis and will not hold my tongue to make them better people - they are my brothers and sisters in faith and blood.
I never mentioned Somalis loving to marry wazungu.
You are mistaken have the wrong person.
Salaam
Ron,
If you are an American why do you care about Kenya or somalia? Don’t tell me anything about kenyan as I grew up there .
Why don’t you make your African american people brothers and sisters better people instead of worrying about Africa?
I don’t know anything about African America. I I see them on Tv, some of them living in gettos, I wonder why they still live like this after 400 years of living in America, while Immigrant live in the AMERICAN DREAM. Immigrant I mean chinese, indians………….I hear there men are not in there kids lives and the kids end up in jails……….. you know all the bad stuff they say about African american .
Nobody Arabize us, actually i am thankful, it makes me learn the arabic language easily, as you know both langauages somali and swahili borrowed it from the arabic. We are thankful that the arabs came to East african, have you visited the coast of kenya, you can feel the presence of Islam there , masha’Allah thank to the yemenis and omanis who settled here and married the locals.
I am Sorry I was mistaken when I said marrying the wazungu comment, I realised later that you were the wrong person.
Naima –
You can believe what you see on T.V. about AA that is up to you. Most AA that I know are living the American Dream.
I know that I am living the American Dream. I love my country and the principles for which it stands.
I am thankful to for the values of freedom, tolerance, and American hardwork that has made this nation great.
AA have the highest standard of living of any black people on the planet.
Salaam
Ron
Umm love your knowledge of Somalia but Puntland is actually part of Somalia
As is the eqally peaceful Somaliland.
Secondly the AA do not have the highest standard of living..black people whether they be somalis, Nigerians Congolise etc In Scandinavia and similar northern European countries do.(I’m talking collectively in terms of crime/housing/and way of life.
Can I also just say It is so refreshing meeting an AA person who is not convinced that the American justice system and general way of life is racist towards the A Black people!
I say this because my politics lecturer keeps talking about how the US is the worst place to grow up (in the world) if you are black..n I kinda took offence to that even though I’m not american.
I challenged his views by bringing up Barack Obama and he laughed in my face, then he went on a tirade of prison statistics, death row statisitcs, general earnings and last but not least Katrina.
That man is full of himself
Just give me the facts regarding the standard of living for black people in these places.
AA have more home ownership, business ventures, political offices, more black universities and colleges and higher rates of literacy.
AA who are naive and young have a warped view of the plight of AA in the US.
Most blacks in European countries do not have the impact and status that AA have in America. For example, blacks in France seek guidance from AA on how to become a strong community.
AA in the US have a long way to go, but we cannot deny the progress that has been made. We have our problems and welcome critiques from the outside.
We need to improve our communities thats without a doubt. Prison, death row, and earnings statistics can be thrown around without much analysis to support black disenfranchisement. However, home ownership, literacy rates, graduation and income statistics can also be used to support the progress that blacks have made in the US.
For example, I lived in a city where the income and education of blacks far outstripped that of whites and other ethnic groups.
I hope that Somaliland and Puntand reintegrates back into Somali to become apart of Greater Somalia but that is yet to be determined.
Salaam
Ron,
I agree with you to the fullest.
Naima,
Do you really believe that all African Americans are living in Ghettos and griping about their conditions? If you do, it’s far from the truth. The power of televsion is powerful. It only tells people what they want to hear ,opposed of what they relaly need to hear.
Even though I was brought up in a mixed neighborhood( and my folks didn’t move there because of that. my mom wanted to live in a area that reminded her of her small town Georgia roots.), Atlanta is one of several “Black-meccas” that is known for having prosperous well to do blacks. I know that as a child, my grandparents hobnobbed around people who were lawyers, teachers( my grandpa was a schoolteacher) . professors and a judge( who also just happens to be my cousin). Most of the people they also lived around were like that. They lived in the “burbs also…and the homes are gorgeous–in the black community. Besides Fulton County, there are many other majority Black enclaves that are also known for their upper middle middle class Blacks.
Besides Atlanta, you can go to Washington DC( Who is number one and is well known for their well to Blacks), Los Angeles, Memphis, and Houston and see these same prosperous Black communities. Even in some of these communities. I know in my city, the projects are almost becoming homes of the past. Blacks own many businesses here, and million dollar homes. If you ever know about famous people like famous entertainers like Ludacris, Outkast, and TI are famous rich entertainers–who lives in these communites. Many civil leader also live in them( and no they are not hopeless crime filled ghettos)
If you want learn the truth about AA’s get away from the TV.Go to a library, a majority Black college,Pick up and EBONY or ESSENCE magazine or just go to one of these cities and learn about it. TV gives and a very distorted picture of Black people. I promise you they are just as they aill with everybody else.
Ron and peaches you should not sugar coat the condition of far too man Black people in America. There are two major distinct groups of Blacks. The rich and middle class and the masses( them asses). The well to do Blacks are similar to the house negroes in the past. They are well dressed, well mannered, groomed and speak excellent English. Then you have the field negroes of today. You can watch them on BET or any urban street corner. Poor education, bad manners, speaking ebonics and on the fast track to prison.
The ghettos are Americas are 3rd world style colonies. If you can play sports, sing, dance or happen to actually get good grades in school they have a spot for you.
I have been in every major hood in America and I have lived in Africa also. You would be surprised how close they are. After Katrina the people sitting on their houses looked just like the people in Malawi after the floods there.
If the government decided to take away subsidized housing, electricity and clean water you would have a meltdown in one of these ghettos.
joie de vivre -
Nawlins -
Is a distinct case and has a unique history. The field/house negro reference is overdone and inapplicable to todays AA.
You cannot compare Nairobi or Lagos to Harlem or Kingston to Watts.
Mandeville to Inglewood would be a better comparison.
I mentioned home ownership so subsidized housing is not that much of a factor anymore. The Regan and Clinton years did away with the welfare state in exchange for right to work programs that have ushered in millions of people into the workforce unlike the welfare states in Europe.
We have enough public officials and engineers to create grids and reservoirs to get electricity and clean water.
I mean come on - you have 12 year olds who can provide clean water (wells and filters) to villages in Africa when African govts. do not have a clue.
I will concede that AA communities need a lot of work.
I think the issue is one of degree and emphasis. You seek to empasize the black underclass while I seek to emphasize the black middle class.
I consider the black middle class to represent AA more than the underclass. You consider the underclass to represent AA.
Fortunately, AA are more middle class than they are underclass and the middle class is growing.
Salaam
Ron,
I am a white American and I have a question for you , have you been to nairobi? I was vacationing there and it has beautiful homes, the rich there live better than us here. The prices of homes in Nairobi are similar to the West. I lived in a furnished house and I paid $1600 per month . I was planning to buy a holiday house ther but I could not afford . Check some of the housing bellow.
http://nicehomesagencies.com/properties/index.php?option=com_hotproperty&task=view&id=35&Itemid=26
It is true there are poor people in Africa but don’t assume all of them to live on trees. It is true many black people live in poverty in America. I lived in kansas and I know how poor the African americas were. They are not educated and blame there laziness on race.
You are in LALA land so keep dreaming but it is true your people live in ghettosss. Immigrants come here, get jobs, educate there kids while the AA are still selling drugs… doing crime……….. and blaming others. That is why there is a conflict between somalis and AA. The somalis come here with nothing and soon you see them starting business , getting jobs while AA are sleeping having too many baby daddies……………….and the baby daddies filling the prison.
Ronnie -
You are so cute - We do business all over Africa. Please save your white nationalism for someone else. I know too much about Africa to fall for your stuff.
Nigerians are probably the most educated ethnic group in the US. However, the poverty level in Nigeria is not comparable to the US.
People ride around in Nigeria with drivers while beggars are on the street. Nigerian women are in Europe prostituting themselves to leave. Somalis are risking their lives in the Red Sea to get to Yemen another poor country with rampant poverty.
Please save it Ronnie. Any AA blaming Somalis for their problems is probably an uneducated and lazy person.
America is a land of opportunitty and most sensible AA believe that as well. Go to any barber shop - we know our predicament and destiny are in our hands not the governments.
By the way have seen the beautiful villas in Ghana on the coast. Try the new developments in Naimbia and Angola they may be in your price range. Be careful because mercenaries will need protection.
Salaam
RON
Thanks. I will check Ghana and namibia but i love nairobi. I am married to a kenya.
Joie,
Where did you get the “denial” part from? I haven’t seen that being done on our post. The only things that I’ve see is for people to get the WHOLE story about African Americans instead of one half of the story.The problem that I have with this is that we’re only seem to be identified with only negativity and you get a high off it.
You say that you have been to every black enclave in the US. I don’t buy your story. While I cannot speak about all Black populations( Maybe I can ,because I’ve also been to a few of them myself), I can speak about mine and since you said you’ve been to them, you should know about my hometown and I would like to your ” facts” about them and please be unbiased because you have already done enough generalizing . I will know if you have or haven’t. I like making promises because I can back my story. More than Iikely, I will be able to do the same in this case.
[...] would not have been funny if done by an African immigrant. Black Americans get offended even when Africans harshly criticize them. I am not saying that non-black Americans (descendants of slaves) do not have the right to [...]
somalis and african americans are not the same thing…being somali and living in a place where many blacks are intimidated by your apperarance (beauty) its hard b/c they feel threatened although somalis and blacks typically don’t like each other it is usually the blacks who stride towards hate on the somalis
and one more thing”
Somali people have a lot of love and respect for each other…we love our people and take pride in our culture. So when people hate it doesn’t really make a difference b/c the love we have for each other is far more greater.
and i have nothing against African American people btw
xoxo
love amira
I personally do not agree 100% with how Run is saying things, however he isnt talking all rubbish.. My mother is Somali and my father Morrocan, so I find it really funny to see FULL Somalis to claim that they , are Arab or Caucasian. I am proud of my African side despite the fact that I look completely Arab.
At the end of the day, We are all equal; White, black, Muslim or Christian. We have begun to take too much pride as individuals and look down at others!
It disgusts me to read how SOME Somalians will not shut up about how ridicilously good-looking they are, and how they think they are ”Superior”. My fellow Somali sisters and brothers Allah created us the same, and Allah created us equal. Also how SOME Africans ”reject” and stereotype against Somalis
- Ron
Somalia has problems, and yes bad problems but like in Nigeria, Ghana etc There are people who run businesses, who owe big homes and are succesful. Its simply a case of stereotyping (and no Im not trying to sugar-coat the conflict in Somalia)
The Somalis vs Other Africans/Carribeans, its going on in the UK too, its more to do with the example American rapsters are setting, and the influence of American films/games. I have grown up with many black people, and now that we’ve reached teenage years and older, they are killing eachother. It saddens me to see this Black on Black crime, bearing in mind it isnt just Somali Vs Jamaican (for example), but even Jamaican Vs Jamaican and Somali Vs Somali.
Every community has its downs, and its ups, but Ron I think you live in a Fairytale. My mum came from Somalia with nothing, and my dad from Egypt with simple manual skills.. They both pushed themselves and are trying to do well for me and my siblings.
Ron you seem to have extreme views, calm down a bit because your comments may come across as offensive even if you dont intend to.
There are problems everywhere, face it
* Ron, sorry typing error :p
Im a first generation somali living in columbus ohio my family has lived here for the last almost 30 years, my parents came here as students in the 70’s way before the war, many of my family members have been here for more than 15 years, and when i see the newer wave of somalis coming to america i notice some differences. one being that the newer wave all came from rural areas war torn regions and with that comes ignorance and sometimes racism. Somalis are loving people and to outsiders that might never be seen because we dont like to open up to people that are not like us, call it whatever you want early 19th century america saw massive immigration growth of europeans from ireland, italy, germany, poland, etc living in NY. i know for a fact these people did not associate with other europeans only because they were not the same, no one saw this as being wrong they just were not comfortable with socialising with other groups, but now you see these same groups intermarrying but that took some time…..folks just give it some time before we all get to know each other
Okay, so if I get this right, calm down folks, you would condone the tensions that exist between Black Americans and Somalis because neither group are familiar with each other. And frankly, early 19th century patterns of social exclusion were at times down right repugnant. Sticking within your own community may be a survival skill, but it doesn’t do much to help build bridges. An immigrant community cannot bemoan the lack of acceptance by the host community if the immigrant community does little to integrate, or at least interact and deal with the host community. I mean, it can be just little things, like smiling at your neighbor. I noticed Somalis don’t even smile back you smile at them. Things like that put Black Americans on guard. Then you have the dynamic at the mosques, For example, there is a substantial Somali community in my area, yet they hardly interacted with me as opposed to the Arab and Desi sisters. I mean, can I get a salaam alaikum back, as opposed to blank stare? I’m willing to give the relationship between immigrants and indigenous Americans time, but we gotta try better to build bridges as opposed to accepting status quo.
listen Aziza everywhere ive gone in america, african americans are having problems with everyone… in NYC its with the domicans and puerto ricans, in california its witht he mexicans and koreans, in florida they had seious problems with the newer caribean immigrants who too where black. so i know its not a racial thing stemming from somalis thats just bullshit…when you have two groups of people both living in the same poor communities competing for jobs and housing than obviously there will be tension, if its a hi that you want show me the respect that i deserve first. ive seen people go from loving black people having all the respect in the world for them to just dispising them and hating everything they stand for thats what a couple of years of disrespect, ignorance and hate from the black community will do for you.
calm down folks,
the sad thing is that you expect people to make exceptions for your community who do little to earn respect of indigenous Americans, (whether that is white, Black, or hispanic/Latino). For example, being nice to your neighbors, no matter what race they are.
And what Black community are you talking about? clearly, these people are moving in low income areas with high crime, and they generalize Black people. Poverty and disfunction is high in the Black community, but it is neither the norm or the standard.
Nor did you address the masjid scenario. And like I said, how can you call yourself a Muslim and not even return salaams to a fellow Muslim in the masjid?
Then you try to frame your argument based on long term negative interaction with Black Americans. You’re talking about some people coming right off the boat or plane with little experience who will even have bad attitudes when they see another Muslim of African decent. They have internalized the negative stereotypes they see on tv, the terrible stories they hear from their friends and relatives. My friend who was Liberian was told before he even came to America to stay away from Black Americans.
It is like you don’t want Somalians to take responsiblity for how they interact with the host community or their negative attitude towards all Black Americans. I’ll hold Black folks in America accountable, but you gotta see how other immigrant communities also take part in racist discourses and exploit underserved communities.
Also, I know that Somalians don’t just have negative attitudes towards Black Americans, but also West Africans. And you have a whole bunch of tribalism/clanism going on in your community. Once I realized the many tensions going on the Somalian community, I really knew they weren’t going to be doing much bridge building with other Africans in the Diaspora.
Like I said, many of us positive Black Americans are interested in building bridges. But other communities can’t continue to burn them with borderline racist assumptions and patterns of exclusion.
Ron,
Your comment was rubbish. I’m Somali, and what you’re saying is just bigoted and angry. The reason AA don’t like Somalis is because they have issue with their own selfs. They don’t only have problem with Somalis, but also Ethiopians, Latinos, or any other minority. Somalis are proud people, and many of us came from modern societies and for some reason AA people seem to think if you’re from Africa you came from hut dwellings.Also Ron, Somalis can live where ever they want.
Ron,
South African blacks are animals. They not only attack Somalis, they also attack other Africans. These people instead of lifting themselves up, are jealous of Somalis and other africanson how they’re working hard to make a life for themselves.
Salaam
Ron, again in Somalia no one did anything to bantus. I don’t know where you’re getting you retarded information.
Salaam
What’s with the Somali idea that everyone is jealous of them???
I think the problem with AA people , specifically non-muslims is that they want to see Somalis be “down”, or below them. That is not going to happen. They think they are superior to Somalis because we came from Africa, and if we did, that is why we’re 100x smarter than the average AA person in America. I try to keep my distance from AA people (non-muslims). I don’t have a problem with muslim African Americans, because they are more civilized, and educated.
Shayla, AA people are often jealous of Somalis and other Africans ,and that is why they often want to start problems with us. The reason is when we come to America, we work hard, we make good lives for ourselves. They expect Africans to be below them.
Halimo, thanks for clarifying. And although I’m Muslim, I still don’t like to make generalisations about non-Muslims (and definitely not AAs). My family and many of my AA friends & co-workers are non-Muslim, but are perfectly good and upstanding people who are just trying to make a living, just like the average Somali immigrant/refugee who comes to the US. And they have little to no problem with Somalis, from my understanding. We have a pretty nice sized Somali community here in Memphis (as well as West Africans), and I don’t see much of the tension described in the article or by others, alhamdulillah, even amongst the non-Muslim AAs and Muslim Somalis or among Somalis and other Africans. Maybe for me, though, I don’t get much opportunity to see it because I AM Muslim and very open-minded, and I don’t live in the same neighborhood as the Somalis (who seemed to have been placed in blighted and poorer neighborhoods by Catholic Charities) or West Africans/other Africans.
I agree with you completely calm down people:)
Shayla, I understand. Being in America, I do feel that AA people are also my “people”. However, I don’t feel that some of them are “warming” up to us.
Halimo
I am not going to dignify your name calling. Just present facts to refute my position and I will gladly concede.
Most of your points are not worth commenting on because they are nonsense and have been refuted by several posters.
I hope Allah blesses you to open up your heart and mind to stop being narrowminded.
Again, I wish the best for Somalis wherever they choose to live. However, Somalis cannot try to disparage other blacks without their being some reprecussions. The days of Somalis being able to get away with that type of behavior is coming to an end.
I think change is the biggest hurdle, meainging a change in the relationship between Somalis and Bantu people.
As long as we treat each other with respect then we can have a positive relationship.
More importantly, I am not saying Black South Africans or Americans have no fault in this relationship. Black Kenyans, South Africans and Americans must also treat Somalis better and not assume that they are uncivilized just because Somalia is a failed state.
The AA community could be considered a failed state as well. I as an AA would not want people assuming negative things about me because of the state of the AA coummunity.
I say Halimo we judge each other as individuals and not just as members of a group.
Halimo, maybe a lot of AA people feel that Somalis aren’t warming up to them. Have you thought about that? *smile* I don’t necessarily think this way, but many AAs may feel like, “We were here first, so they should try to understand us, how we are, and what we do.” Not necessarily try to “be like” us, though. Hell, I don’t want foreigners to try to be “like us” because the pattern I’ve noticed is that they adopt what I consider to be the “worst case scenario” of us, as was mentioned in the article (baggy jeans, gangsta rap, etc.). I don’t like that lifestyle, and there are a lot of like-minded AAs who also don’t like it. I think that AAs are willing to accept and value diversity, as long as we feel that “outsiders” are willing to accept and understand us and our culture/history, as Aziza suggests. We can sense when someone feels discomfort in being around us. I think any human being can. And for a lot of AAs, it’s probably really discouraging to see it come from another black person. You know what I mean?
Shayla, it’s not just about Somalis and African Americans. Somalis don’t have problems with Latinos, or Asians, or Nigerians. But, often times it is African Americans that have problems with every other group. I honestly dislike many bad things about AA culture, like being rude and aggressive to people. The women are often rude and loud, the men check out every woman’s “booty”…and so on.
First of all I don’t know why any group of people has to be “proud”: proud of the ethnic group/country you are born in, proud of how smart, beautiful, talented, etc. These are things beyond each one’s control. One cannot control what ethnic group or culture one is born into and if one is smart, talented or beautiful (and yes Somalis are very beautiful)it is a gift from God! There is a need for thankfulness not
Thanks for your comments, J.
Halimo, your thinking on this issue seems to be very superficial and shallow as suggested by comments about AA women being loud and rude and AA men checking out women’s booty. I don’t see how it relates, nor do I see it as a uniquely African-American trait or quality. Plenty of men from all backgrounds sexualise women. African (whether from East or West Africa) men have looked at my body in an inappropriate manner before, as have white and Hispanic men. And women from any ethnicity can be rude or loud. One of the rudest women I know is white. But I don’t make sweeping generalisations about white women simply because she doesn’t know how to talk to people.
J, it may shock you , but Somalis also pay taxes. In fact, they take alot of my hard earned money out of my check. You ancestors were also immigrants to America, so just because Somalis are newcomers doesn’t give you the right to say they should kiss your ass for being here first.
J, one more thing, I have an American passport, which makes me “American”. You’re making it seem like Somalis can’t be Americans, while forgetting many nationalities make up America.
Halimo said : “I honestly dislike many bad things about AA culture, like being rude and aggressive to people. The women are often rude and loud, the men check out every woman
to clerify I’m Somali, i grew up with african americans still got a couple in my inner circle, i dont know how u misconstruded what i was trying to say….in the end of the day i got a lot of love for african americans, educated blacks: i see them as being worldly, wise individuals that i can just kick it with learn a wealth of knowledge from, and when they’re muslim its just more love… yall just have a different perspective on life and islam, the energy is beautiful. Dont bring that bullshit about ohh somalis dont show us love in the mosque where are u getting that from…somalis show love to everyone. Come to a somali mosque and if u dont feel like you were shown love than i’ll be damned. Aziza honey i mean what your asking for is very minor in comparison to what they’re probably going thru. And Shayla its not that AA are jealous from Somalis i just believe they might be a little intimidated by us, i mean in a 10 year span we don took over the whole north side with commerce, education and our own banking system. And i heard it sooo many times from the black community so dont think im making this shit up as i go…but they actually think were gettin all of our funding from the government to surpass the black community on the totem pole, they also think somalis get all the affordable section 8 housing because were somali, everything handed to us on a silver platter…..ALL RUBBISSSHHH…..we work damn hard for everything we get not only do i have to work hard for me and my family, but for my extended family back home who have nothing, half of all my checks go to my lil cousins back home… with no help from the government im not on food stamps, i go to college full time and work 60 hours a week and yea believe it or not im only 20, relatively young i guess…well the majority of the somali community i know works hard like this. dont knock us for silly shit like ohh they dont say hi to us, why dont yall ask yourselves why you do the shit yall do, and theres a lot of shit yall do thats in question my brothas and sisters. yall havnt seen the things ive seen in my lifetime.
As-Salaamu `Alaykum
Last time I checked, there are Somalis and AA’s using and abusing food stamps. Not just them, Arabs and White people too. The majority of Somalis, AA’s, Arabs and Whites are not on food stamps and work hard to provide for themselves.
Sounds like David Duke is up in this piece!
This thread is polluted generalizations, fallacies and a number of other terms that violate the natural rules of logic.
Ironically, the khutbah that I gave today was about anti-social speech (thann, gheebah, and nameemah). Too much finger pointing and no constructive discussion.
???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????
“Blessed is he who is preoccupied with his own faults than with the faults of [other] people.” - hadeeth hasan narrated by Al-Bazzar in his musnad.
I just that before we start pointing the finger at other groups, we look into our own personal dysfunction and the internal bigotry in our own “tribes.” As a Blackamerican, we still have a lot of skin color, hair texture and class issues within us. I’m not concerned much about others’ madness (which yall have too).
Wassalaam
To add something to dawudwalid’s point:
Basing your walaa wal baraa’–loving and associating with and hating and disassociating from–for other than the sake of Allaah is HARAAM, AND CAN GET YOU THROWN INTO THE HELL-FIRE!!!
How is it that Muslims get caught up in this nonsense in these times?…wallaahu Musta’aan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
calm down folks,
I find your burst of Somali pride taking over a bit overboard. Looks like you need to follow your own advise.
I like how you try to dismiss my experiences so easy. I’m a fairly perceptive person and I’ve had a number of talks with Arab, Pakistani, Asian, White, Black, and African students about ethnic tensions in the Muslim community.
I really don’t see the new immigrant Somali families integrating with the broader Muslim community at the Muslim Community Association in Silicon Valley. They are more assimilated on college campuses. But there are a group of Somali college age guys who go to the raggae club in downtown San Jose and get in fights with Mexican gangs and sometimes small groups of Black San Jose state students. I haven’t seen too many run ins with Asian gangs, cause they don’t fight, they shoot.
I’m saying even the Arabs and Desis say Somalis stick to their own. In 15 years as a Muslim, I’ve been invited to only 1 Somali household. But I cannot tell you how many invites and friendships I’ve made just by attending the mosque. I mean, when you have somebody stare you dead in the face and you smile at them and they can’t return the smile, you call that love? I see that in Egypt too. I’ve had even Arab friends experience similar things. We saw a beautiful couple and we smiled at the lady, and she just looked at us like we’re crazy. Even stressed out Cairene folks, who stare you dead in your mouth, will smile back if you smile at them. I’m not offended, I figured its a cultural thing. But when you’re in America, just understand how that will be misconscrued as unfriendliness. Yes, there are friendly, outgoing Somalis. Maybe its just me. Now you’re cussing and showing bad etiquette. I mean, how is your language supporting your argument? It really shows how you’re not ready to have an engaged intellectual discussion about building bridges between Somalis and Black Americans.
Halimo,
Your thought process is inconsistent and at times very flawed. It’s not as if you need a degree to have insight on ethnic tensions in America, but you really need to think (carefully) about what you say and the basis by which you make your assumptions.
dawudwalid I agree with you , we need to clean up our own backyard as Black Americans and look at our own issues, before trying to build bridges with community who are also bringing in their own issues.
hey lets be clear on this. i dont understand these people claiming to be muslims or whatever and theycant get along in their own country. as i know u guys should have a same ancestor, the same history and the same everything…..even if hunger and political divisions happened, guys u should fight against it. i lived in the twins cities for two years and i met bad and good somalis….u guys should thank the U.S for accepting u here. u guys should try to get a life and quit being in ”gang” or stabbing women….many times the police mistook for an east African..i aint from the East Africa…..be thankful that ur here and if u cant be better than a black…if u knew the real meaning of Islam u wouldnt be here…..by the way i am from the west Africa the peace land.
bismillah and salaams
im from seattle, the second or third largest population of somalis in the USA live here with me and I have been an adopted member of the somali community for nearly six years now….I converted a year ago, and I can say that as a black american (BA) it was really hard getting along - I was called “nigger” regularly by somalis and constantly talked about in my face in somali - you should see how the faces drop when I reply back in somali to an insult or a question about me directed to someone other than me.
somalis are a very beautiful (im talking supermodel hot mahsa’allah) and talented people especially when it comes to building businesses, its like being an entreprenure comes with the (understandable) hardheaded-ness of being somali. and they are rightfully hard-headed, as you have in the somalis a people who seek refuge all over the western world and manage to be successful even when they only know a handful of the english laguage. The key? THEY DON’T LISTEN! they never take no for an answer and you can gas them up about how they are going to fail but they won’t hear you because that confidence and pride they have in themselves propels them forward.
I take my hat off to them for that.
the east african communites here in seattle are large and in charge and the BA community here is making room for them because they seem to be doing what we are not, but one would be remiss not to mention the arrogance that lies deep in somali culture (similar to the ethiopians and the arabs) surely not everyone is arrogant (who the heck am I to say) but you catch whats going on real quick with any group when you live intimately with them.
and this is not jealousy (halimo, maacanto, hiyee?) as I have had SO many somali girls tell me they wish they had my “good hair” and my athletic “video girl “physique etc. (again, I was a non-muslim for the most part and consequently immodest) and slapping me with those backwards comments “you’re so pretty for a black girl, you look better than the rest of your people” - this is honesty
If I said I was from the midgaan cabil (khabil - tribe) I could count on being the lowest of the low, but even lower than that, is BA - i have had conversation after exhausting conversation with about how various east african groups feel about BA’s and if anyone should be bitter it is ME because i’ve listened to so much of it since i was 18, and at 23 i’m still waiting thru the insults because there is unity in diplomacy - so alhamdulilah I have seen the fruit of my labor.
even k’naan (somali rapper, typicaly hated on by canadian somali’s and somali-landers, while people with southern somali heritage generally accept him - and this is a sweeping generalization so take it with a grain of salt) immortalized somali issues in the single “soo baax” directed towards the gun-men in the somalia. soo baax mean come out - its a protest song to say the least. when he said “we lose lives over khabil’s name” meaning we kill people simply based on what tribe they come from - sounds like bloods and crips kinda
- you cant say that’s not that ibliss “i am better than he” type attitude working there.
Most east African immigrant groups play a superiority game with BAs - let’s not front about it, its like, whenever im in africa im treated like i’m almost a white person (aka royalty)- I even got called Mzungu (english, or white person in kiswahilli) but those same groups of people (whether kikuyu or somali), once they live in america they look down at us with disdain - but the truth is that the same thing that was done to the BA community is being done to the somali community by the american govt and I think its having a humbling affect, they are ashamed of the broken homes caused by welfare that they used to ridicule african americans for having…
african americans are a curious and outspoken people but we are not, as a collective culture, arrogant people like the somalis TEND to be - and yes, I have been from kenya, to uganda, to tanzania, south africa, and back up thru yemen (for months at a time - I wasn’t kidding when I said I am truly a member of this community as there are almost NO BA muslims out here)with somalis and i am defensive about them as a community but i won’t sit here and romanticize them because I’m a fan - becuase I’m a fan of every group. So sure there are some arrogant cultural norms but just like BA’s cannot be generalized very well neither can somalis, the differences are huge just from haargeysa, to berbera, mogadishu, etc.
I was mostly hurt by somali’s who had been hurt by african americans in the past - who couldn’t wait to take out their frustrations on the BA sitting in front of them (yours truly), but that is understandable, BA’s are funny (in general) so when we crack jokes on them in middle school for smelling like their food (which is some REAL GOOD fod) it hurts and it lingers but most of that is in jest, some BA’s think they are superior only because they are ignorant about afrika and her many people, but in general we are a pretty accepting people, we just tend towards saying what we think and being candid so it doesn’t always appear that way. But i’ve got to say that of all groups in america I have notcied chicanos and black sto be the least arrogant of all - perhaps becuase we have been socially stratified at the bottom of this society but whatever it is, I find the most humble people among these two groups)
Again, these are sweeping generalizations that can not realistically encompass everyone but I’m hoping to bring sobriety to the picture with my comments, don’t know if I’ve done that - but i’ve been sincere here.
i look at somalis this way; for example: everytime I have ever been to a restauraunt with any somali human being they complain the whole time in about 3 or 4 languages (lol) but if you have ever tasted somali food; or were raised on somali food - you would do the same, the food is perfection masha’allah, so when they go and pay good money for some stuff they could have done better at home, they act a fool ( and I love it because I shy away from complaining about anything - the result is often free food so ahamdulilah) - there is always a context behind the way people act so insha’allah we won’t be so quick to judge, somalis have a rich history, when I learned about my own history as an african american i had to fight arrogance with everything in me, so I guess I understand them through my own short commings, whatever allahu alim. forgive me for my short commings, im just an unlearned girl with an opinion seeking unity , honesty,and diplomacy, thanks
Okay i just came across this discussion… and i wanted to say ..please dont say every Somali person just say SOME.. Since im Somali i felt attacked ..But i get where all of this is coming from ..Most HORN of Africans are not open and mostly conceited towards anything but their own ..But not all ..Like the one’s that grew up here and have a western state of mind are the best to get along with .. I think if my people would put their imaan ( Faith ) on the first place ..Life would be so much better ..for example we would still be in our own country etc etc.. I love black people REGARDLESS and i know im speaking for most Somali’s..
khair inshallah.
Sameera,
You shouldn’t feel attacked, nor should we feel like we have to defend people within our own ethnic community when they are doing something that is destructive or counter productive. I understand trying to explain general attitudes and behaviors
We’re not saying all Somalis. But there is a general pattern of lack of integration between Blacks and Somalis, and the broader American population. Even that pattern can be found in the masjid where we are supposed to be so pious and operating on the principles of universal brotherhood. I can say that I have expeienced SOME solidarity between Somalis, but not a lot of love from MOST. I hope one day it is the reverse.
You are right, the more westernized and educated Somalis are much more open for exchange and interaction. That is why I pointed out that they are much more assimilated on college campuses. Like I said, I’m calling for increased dialog and exchange between the two communities.
@ heart broken from seattle
I dont understand why you are posing as an African American when you are clearly somali.
Margari Aziza
Why do we have to create a forced interaction between different communities in the mosque, there is nothing wrong with positive division, there is no such thing as universal brotherhood. There is no interaction because we somalis want to live like we are still back home. Time and education will hopefully change that.
Margari Aziza Hill,
Yes youre right ..were not supposed to defend for the community ..However i hope you know where im coming from ..Ive seen hella discussions about Somali’s being this and that (which sadly most of the time is true ) ..and i just wanted to give my point of view .. Anyways i wish you a Ramadan kareem and I hope Allah makes it easy for you inshallah ..
Leila,
Ramadan Wanaagsan abaayo.
Sameera
Ramadan kareem as well abayo
Leila,
I think you need to reevaluate what you just wrote and the implications of that. None of my interactions with Arab and Desis were forced. My relationships were genuine and we grew from them. They saw me as a new face at the masajid and at events, invited me to their homes, and through our interactions I came to appreciate their culture and the political crises their people suffered at home. Their friendliness made me more empathetic to their causes, build solidarity. As a result, I feel I have much more in common with Arab, Desi, multi-racial, white and Latino Muslim sisters than many of the Somali sisters in my own community.
They had no problem saying “salaam alaikum” to me as a Black women. Even the Arab or Desi aunties would smile and ask me where I was from and if my family was Muslim. They would at least make me feel welcome. We all have our distinct culture. But we were made from different tribes and nations so that we may get to know each other. That’s straight from the Qur’an and that’s real.
So you’re saying that not giving salaams to another Muslim because you want to support healthy division? You’re saying that not inviting your brother or sister over iftar and forgoing the baraka of feeding a faster is supporting a healthy division? Are you saying that, when we have the tradition of our Prophet and the Sahaba where the people of Mecca and Medinah came together, got to know each other, and acted as brethren. They had different customs and different ways. But still, they showed common courtesy.
For one, as Muslims, people are claiming universal brotherhood. How many of us get calls to defend our immigrant brethren when they experience discrimination? This is the case in stories like this:
http://www.11alive.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=120279&catid=165
Now, if a particular community wants to immigrate to America and remain in their isolated ethnic enclave, then don’t expect a lot of solidarity and understanding. We have to create dialog and mutual appreciattion for both our culture’s rich heritage.
Sameera,
I understand what it feels like when you perceive your group to be attacked. But we have to get beyond venting grievances or being defensive and start doing the work of assessing the problem and then working to rectify it.
Ramadan Mubarak!
Kul ‘am wa antum bikheir
Aziza, Somalis are the most welcoming, loving muslim community you will ever meet. We are way more open than Asian muslims because our culture is not as strict, and plus as Africans we are more loving people with good hearts. I love Somali people, because they welcome everyone, they don’t discriminate on skin color and they are very entertaining people. Somali people will make you enjoy your day, they joke alot and from my experience the best muslim community who are unwavering in their deen.
Aziza, I attend a masjid which is majorly Somali and every other day a new convert takes shahada, when I was attending arab masjid…I only properly witnessed one shahada. I’m not trying to say that it’s Somali thing, but I’m trying to prove that we are outgoing people and we are always making dawah. I never heard someone say Somalis “stick to their own”, and the arabs and desis that said do the same thing. About the staring thing, it might be cultural, some people like to “stare” at you so they can size you up it’s also an African thing I suppose. African people tend to be more secure than Americans. Americans always worry about what people think about them, so staring at them makes everything worse for them.
Aziza, about the “sticking to their own” thing, I think the issue might be alot of Somalis don’t like Arabs typically. We used to hear stories of men who went to work in Saudi Arabia and were called “abeed” (slave) and basically alot of people hold the view that Arabs don’t like black people or Africans in general. Maybe that is why most Somalis don’t associate with arabs because of ingrained stereotype that arabs are not good people.
For me, I like everyone, I like how Arab sisters have sisterhood and I also admire how they perfectly can pin their scarves while my scarve is on me loop-sided…I’m sorry my culture just got used to scarves, insha’Allah I’m learning:)
Tariq Nelson, I lUV your blog:)
iamwhatiam, west africa is worst than Somalia, the media makes it seem like Somalia is sooooooooo not good, but the reality is lack of central gov’t pays off.
LOL@heart broken in seatle wow, you wrote alot to chew on. But, generalizations are not good. I’m always generalized when I’m the minority in a muslim community too as a Somali person, they think I say “warya” after every sentence, or I’m supposed to eat banana with everything…I find that disturbing. WE NEED CHANGE.
i think that once you get to know somaliis they are nice people but at the same time can be abit racist..iam black, i live in the uk, and iam actually married to a somali girl….and no! she didn’t have to run away! her parents accepted alhamdulillah and we were married withing a matter of weeks!
and another thing…she was actually born in somalia were still in our early 20’s.
you know us black people do have a big problem and when i say black i mean ALL OF US even one looking down on each other while everyone else looks down on us…. oh he is dark hes blick hes bantu he somali he habash jariir( see i even know about the double i lol)
this is not on..who do you think the kkk, bnp,c18 and hitlar would save out of us all…..? yes the right answer is NONE!
at the end of the day brothers and sisters we all have problems and untill the day we clean our hearts we can never clean our communities..
its like a white man once said “if you want to cause friction between two slaves put a light skin slave to work next to a dark skinned slave” subhanallah its like everyone has us figured out apart from ourselves….
salaam
muahmmed
i don’t know about america but the whole issue in england is JAMAICAAN. boy…..its a deep one.but to tell you the truth i haven’t really experienced anything bad from them, not to say it hasn’t happened behind my back….people stereotype too much..eg everyone says to me “ah man arab are racists towards blacks”
in my mind iam like here we go again! but some of them are don’t get me wrong! it canme to a point where i would feel uneasy around arabs not bcoz i feel that he is better than me, its bcoz i know i how i might react….but anyway i decided to go to the lands of the arabs myself, ive been to jordon,qatar and yemen and i was in the airport in dubai and you know what i have never seen or hear any racist coment towards me, they actually came shook my hand kissed me on the cheek held my hand. but here in the uk i have experienced it twice once i was in a shop with an arab guy and a few somalis to cut a long story short he(arab) called me HABASH so i was waiting for the somalis to say something as they well know that if it was two arabs and they wasn’t there he would say the same about them…but they said nothing so i switched on the guy…subhanallah! by the time i finished with him he could even tell you hes own name due to how much he was stuttering.. the point is not everyone is the same…and if a person is so low to judge you for your colour then he is a person who is not worth knowing.
@ muhammad
I am a somali person married to a jamaican man in the UK. It is not an accepted or normal practice for somalis to marry outside their people without no objection from the family. Even my family who are open minded did not accept it initially. I find it very difficult to believe that the family accepted you within weeks, unless there were some serious undelying circumstances. You know the reasons for the speed of your marriage or their acceptance but don’t try to make out as if everything is all hunky dory. In fact it is very unusual that a somali girl marries within weeks, as preparations of marriage takes a lot longer than that in our culture, usually over a year.
One of the things that needs to be recognised by those commenting about somalis is that regardless of how african americans and jamaicans see us, we just don’t see ourselves as the same as you. I think it would be smarter instead of trying to make out like we’re just all black, we recognise our differences.
well sister like we siad NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME maybe there are some Practicing parents out there! and actually the prophet said there should be three that should not be delayed one of which is marriage…so no their is not an underlying issue here SISTER… u act as if by defualt every has to bee like that well sorry sister its not, i went to the parents house and and at first they wasn’t on it too tough but then with the will of Allah it happened…i go to the house eat with them and guess what miss negative! he even calls me son…so why add a negative to a positive? just because u haven’ seen it happen doesn’t mean that is hasn’t and you know what actually i find it quite offencesive to say their must be some underlying issues how dare you……..don’t dare comment like that about underlying issues like iam not worth marrying or there must be something wrong with the sister that her father is welling to give her up when it normal practice amongst the MU’MINEEN to marry quicker that this…astaghfirullah…no one said we are the same and i can tell u iam not saying that either….but we are muslim and maybe her dad knows and understands that…as for playing hunky dori no no no sister i know that there is big beef between malis jamcan i know its terrible and sick as the prophet (saw) said whoever calls to the affairs of jahilliyah (racism, tribe, nationalism etc) let him bite the penis of his father and do not suger caot it”
the people of kibr are in the hell fire shaytaan was the first racist..why? he said “iam better than him”
but anyway sister u know what please don’t comment like that again and next time i really really advise you to pick your words carefully..how would you feel if i said there were issues surround your marriage…..sister don’t say something like that again..its very rude, it may not seem like that you but i think its very very very rude
oh yeah and another this SISTER a somali wouldn’t marry withing weeks what are you trying to say? and take time to prepare!
well just maybe sister some people out here try to stick to the SUNNAH and sunnah isn’t triblism, or big walimahs, who paying great amounts of money to family members or giving money out at the nikah…..
you meet get the permission from the wali…he came the shaykh came and alhamdulillah after around 3 weeks to a month it was done but of course i meet her family spoke to her prayed istikharah and alhamdulillah we have been togher for nearly 2 years now…so sister positive and work towards change…why frown upon a rose growing out of concreta?…we know the situation no one denys its but we must work towards the future as muslims and if a man allowed me to marry hes daughter fot the sake of Allah then isn’t that a good thing? y u have to come with them vibes for?
one more thing SISTER when i said that we have a problem as black people i ment you somalis also
masha alllah just like an asian brother the other day in the masjid..the same thing fam accepted he go married..another arab brother meet the parents first masha Allah accepted him straight so these are just examples of good people.. in the world u get white people who r good and bad, blacks who are good and bad, asians who are good and bad…sister u act as if you know everysingle mali out there…subhanallah my wife even knows a black west african sister who is married to a somali masha Allah…and the other day i was speaking to a mali brother who said to me he would like for hes sister to marry a non somali so sister, i can give many examples, i know a jamaican brother married to a mali sister masha Allah 2 kids and the family like hin he always at the house and wot not..even my wifes aunts alway inviting me to the house talking to me on the phone and they even brought me into there shura you know when their is a dispute between familiesand everyone comes together..trust me ive even been a part of that..so sorry sister if ur experience was bad but mine wasn’t……but alot of mali peeps are still racist towards jamoes…peace!
Everyone on this forum needs to get a job honestly….go out fill out a job application get your little resume on point and do something with your lives, stop analysing minor shit…..Somalis are refugees that are just coming to grips of whats happening to their homelands…stop watching them let them do them. im starting to realise somalis are soo unwanted looool maybe we should just leave….pack up our businesses and all the money we bring into our local economies and just bounce, and see what happens. ………..And aziza wuts with u and Desis are you an indian, like get off there jocks mami
lol
thank you…couldn’t say it better myself…fam to raise money to make things to do..and mans chatting bout mali and jamoes……
Well, AS SALAAAMU ALAIKUM!!!!! To all the Muslims that gave salaams and didn’t get one in return!
Hum! What’s interesting is all this talk about this and that; I think a lot of you have issues of “acknowledge me or else” hahaha!
I think a lot of us need to read the Hadith for understanding. The Prophet(saaws) said ” in the last days, people will only give salaams to people they know only” so what’s the hollering on here for? The Prophet(saaws) never lied.
I get love from Somali’s because I give love to them; with any “person” even among BA, if they show love, I show love back. If they don’t, oh well.
I think we as humans should look for the good in things and stop walking around like all is going to be well. It won’t! Just don’t waste to much time on the negative.
Somali, African-Americans, Desi, Arab, White, lol! Man it’s too much problems. Can we talk about hunger, healthcare, things that matter? What if someone doesn’t like you? Will you stop breathing? BA, you just tire me out with your talks of who don’t like you and who does. Love yourself firstly! Secondly, worry about things that will improve our situation.
I’m so sick of BA complaining! Allah loves us and Allah is in control of our destiny wallahi. The white man, or whomever isn’t in control of that.
Blogs about AA vs Whites, AA vs Latinos, AA vs Africans, AA vs AA, it’s too tiresome. Now, this talk about Somali, man please. Muslims on here should be a shame of themselves for wanting something we should give Allah. To Allah is all the praises! It’s a shame. The world is against us, and we are having talks about this crap. Somali belongs to Kenya and Kenya belongs to Sudan, please, lol! All this dunyah is for play and amusement. All this dunya talk is for the ears of the shaitain. I do know that all the heavens and earth is for Allah(swt). We live here we die and to the earth we will return. Fighting over dunya is fruitless. Live among your neighbors as you live in your house! Wow! Muslims fighting over land, names, clans, skin color. Isn’t there something we can talk about? How to help each other to get to Jannah? I want to remind you all that what ever we write will be presented before us on the day of judgment. A lot of what I read on line from Muslims today shouldn’t be written. If you have a blog, and you feel happy or can open it in front of Allah(swt) without shame, keep writing.
Salaam and I love BA(AA), Whites, Browns, and Yellows, Purples, whatever. If you came into the world like I did thru your Mother’s womb. I love you!
Much love to my Somali brothers and sisters even the ones who might have done something to me, or I to them.
You guys have had some bad experiences with Somalis no doubt, but stop generalizing. Its annoying.
I totally disagree with everyone who thinks that there is some how a racial connection between Somalis and Blacks. I am a Somali and I don’t consider myself black. If you study history we identify more with the Berber tribes and Ancient Arab tribes of Yemen. When I first came to U.S., we settled in a Black community and instead of allowing us to coexist safely, they were violent towards us because we didn’t allow them to get close our women. I remember back in six grade, we were in P.E. class and there was a somali sister who was playing with other girls, couple of young kids (boys) went up to hear and told her to take off hear scarf beacuse they wanted to see her hair…and as a result of this, there was a huge brawl between Somalis and Blacks. I remember in School being called an “African booty scratcher” and the ironic thing was, the kids who were calling me this had more African features then I did!!! Anyways, they never did welcomed us but instead were very violent towards, but, ‘Allhumdullah some of them did come into Islam and did marry Somali women…..as a matter of fact, I know couple of guys who became Muslim just so that they can marry a Somali sister….and after the marriage they never showed up to the masjid, ever. On the other hand, there were those who married and stayed married but were very abusive to the sisters….I guess they had messed up life…but still that does not justify women beating (which in our culture is looked down upon). And masshallah, there are brother who are Black and masshallah they are the best Muslims I have ever seen; like, the this one brother who is married to a sister I know.
When were back home in East Africa, the media give us certain image of African Americans. We saw that they were, ‘drug dealers, rappers, criminals’ and then when we arrived here, that was just what we saw…..so, imagine how much shock that is to us. And yes, a lot of Somali people are racist against Blacks because they are influenced by what they have seen…so..who is to blame?
Somalis are not the best Muslims, but they are better than many immigrants because to some level they have managed to stay on the deen….so, if certian parent does not want their duaghter to marry an African American brother, then that is cool….this is their choice and they should be insulted because of it.
dude above me is a clown…go take a nap with that bullshit….u consider youself berber wdf now i kno wut all this fuss is about its people like you
WTF are you talking about Somali brother? Since when did we somalis use to watch on TV African Americans? Cut the bullsh*t man. You are contradicting yourself, if you were in six grade in America, how can you know what the media (if we have one) airs about African Americans. The average somali man in Somalia could not have an opinion about African Americans because he wouldnt have access to information about them. Only an ignorant person would justify racism with a poor excuse like yours.
We need to chill on the hair topics and that we are not liked because we look different, most people dont give a damn about our looks. I can see how two decades of war have destroyed our pride, we hang on to our looks because this is the only thing we think gives us a sense of achievement. It is ridiculous.
well said leila
No, you cut the bullshit “Leila”. What Somali brother has written is 100% the unadulterated truth. Somalis at large don’t and have never considered themselves black nor do we identify with them on any appreciable level. This is not to say that we hate blacks, but we certainly don’t consider them our “brothers”. It doesn’t just have to do with features or hair or overall appearance and physique, but also culture, language, provenance, mores, history, Deen, temperament, pride… Blacks have very little in common with us other than a shared continent and dark skin. And this dark skin is a product of living in a similar, tropical environment, not of shared ancestry (look up the Bantu and Nilotic expansions). I sincerely doubt you’re even Somali because rare is the Somali that belittles his or her own people wholesale, on so flimsy a pretext, and in front of Bantus to boot. FYI, Somalia has TV; that’s been one of the many constants throughout our current travails, struggles which, as an obvious non-Somali, you seem to have no trouble gloating in. If you were indeed Somali like you pretend to be, you’d already know this. You’d also know that what Somali brother writes is not out of a lack of pride, but the precise opposite of that: an excess of pride. It’s this surplus of pride which makes it categorically impossible for him, like the overwhelming majority of other Somalis, to allow our race, culture, and name to be devalued by peoples that don’t know the first thing about us, who and what we really identify with, or what we really believe and hold dear. The truth sometimes hurts, but it’s certainly a much more potent, and liberating alternative to fiction.
Why should Somalis consider themselves black?
I was born in Canada so the constant teasing has never been directed towards me, maybe thats why I have no issue with identifying as black.
But for my parents who came to this country and were teased by these so called African Americans in Ohio (before making a permanent move in Toronto) , it’s not such an easy task. The fact that we have to assimilate in order to get along with other black people is annoying. Why can’t I be me? Why cant I speak my language, wear my cultural clothes and do me, while still maintaining connections with people of other cultures? I’m not going to lie, at the moment I am being kinda hypocritical. I dont walk around on a daily basis wearing somali clothing. I dont speak Somali every second, but I consider myself to be very SOMALI (if there is such a thing). Maybe thats why it works for me.
If I walked around in a diirac and spoke Somali every where I went I would have a very hard time making other black friends who arent atleast First or Second generation African.
I know a lot of people are thinking WOW this girl has issues. Maybe I do.
Furthemore this whole article is very biased. I can understand it though. Because I’m not in denial. My parents are very proud of being somali, but if you ask them what colour they are they will not answer. They dont want to be black. Its not like they want to be white or arab or anything else. THEY JUST DONT WANNA BE BLACK. Is that wrong? YES. Is it our business? No.
It shouldnt affect your life anyway. It doesnt affect mine.
And the whole Bantu issue. I’ve been to Somalia. I dont live under a rock. Bantu people are treated like ass there. Lets not lie to ourselves. I made a couple friends there and was literally scolded for talking to them. They were there “To do my laundry”. But if you want to get onto tribes. It is not just Bantu’s. It’s all tribes. No one will be satisfied with you unless you are from the same clan as them. And if you think about it, that’s how the african americans in ohio are treating somalis. And that’s life.
@Ali
I offer the following wisdom and advice, walaalkey:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
Unfortunately, many of the points that you made are true, however your truths aren
N.B.-In response to my post, Ali might state that when he referred to Blacks he meant Blacks in the US or another Western country (e.g. Canada or the UK) and that he didn’t mean Blacks in the general sense (i.e. people of Apparent African descent) but in the specific sense (i.e. so called ‘Bantus/Jareers’). My response would be whether you meant Blacks in the general or the specific sense it doesn’t alter the substance of what I am saying. This concept of distinguishing ‘blacks’ into non Bantu and Bantu is a very limited concept and unknown outside of East Africa. It is racially Ioaded and does nothing but create hatred and cause bloodshed. I admit that if we were blogging in Somalia, Sudan or Tanzania much of what I have said above would not make sense to many people and it might be inappropriate in that setting. Nevertheless, considering we are outside of East Africa (I think), we should adopt frames of reference that relate to our locality’s cultural climate and historical outlook i.e. here in The West.
Also, having re-read my post I just want to clarify that I am not trying to preach some happy clappy ecumenical outlook on relationships betwen different comunities-although I believe this is an ideal state of affairs. Cold blooded reality ( or potent and liberating truth as Ali expressed it) tells us that there are individuals in communities who are ruthless in dealing with outsiders and they’ll never change their outlook. They’ll have to answer to the Creator and Coordinator of Life one day (Allah). That’s life! However, if I can influence even one person to reconsider how he perceives others (from being negative and antagonistic to positive and conciliatory) inshallah I’ll be happy.
Your link to the Somali community of Columbus Ohio.
The Somali Link is your news source.
Find out more about our publication:
http://www.somalilink.com
I am a Somali that lives in Columbus, Ohio. I came to North America at a young age with my family, fleeing from the civil war.
My interaction and impression of AA folks is one of deep embarrasment for us as well as them, because at the end of the day others paint us with the same brush. What I have absorbed is the following when it comes to AA people.
What I can never come to understand is the fact that from their young to their old things the same, acts the same, and beliefs the same. What do I mean by this? Go to any American city, you will see a full grown man in his 20s dressed the same way as the 15 year old. You have people who follow BET and Black Music radio stations music religiously follow and act upon what they see their icons(a rapper who raps about that which is corrupt) is up to. You have a people that been here for the past 400 and more years, who have nothing to show for , except complain about the system. You have man who sleep around with their own kind and then ran away from their responsibility to their child, thus creating a cycle of baby mamas. You have girls who are grandmothers at the age of 27. You have grandmothers racing three generations of her childrens. You have people who are given free education through k12, but who will not take advantage of. You have people who their man drives around a pimped out car that costs so much money but yet cant provide for his 4 kids from 4 different momas. You have people who their children only inspire to be the next 50c or the next Kobe Bryant, but have no knowledge or the desire to be people like Colin Powell and Barack Obama. You basically have people who have no culture to abide by but have a culture of self-destruction and ignorance.
I attend the O.S.U and in the AA and African Studies is overwhelmingly runned by people from the continent of Africa, while at the same time you have 200k AA people in this city alone.
Let me tell you about my Somali community. Most of us Somalis have been here in Columbus for about 14 years. The population here is 45k. Out of that we have 1, 800 that attend the local community college, as well as 300 that attend O.S.U. May I remind you that this group of students are the offspring of the first migration Somalis, imagine the next generation Somalis. Out of my family alone we have 3 in Uni and 1 in Community college and that graduate already, also considering the fact that we are the only ones in our subclan who ever attended university. All this is groundbreaking. And we are doing this in a matter of a decade, while AA have been here close to 500 hundred years. All thanks is to Allah, I am not showing off but showing the disparities between the two groups.
Somali women are indeed nice and caring, but I cannot say the same about Somali men. They act as if Black American women are the lowest of all human beings. They try to use American black women, and ask them to do things that they wouldn’t dare ask of a Somali woman. The Black Americans are their descendents, but they treat Somali women and women of other nationalities better than they do Black American women. I believe it is due to the lies they might have heard about Black American women from the white race. Nevertheless it deeply angers me.
For reasons unknown to me, my post was deleted, so I have decided to re post this message. I emailed Tariq to complain about this and thus far I have received no response as to why my comments were deleted and why the other comments remain. I believe as long as the posts by Somali Brother and Ali remain on this site, Tariq Nelson (which is dedicated to enlightenment and bridge building), I won’t sit back and allow racist sentiments to be expressed on it without offering a serious challenge. Additionally, I’ve managed to inform and guide many ignorant people through this comment. I understand the post is long but the things I said need to be on record. Anyway below is what I originally wrote on 10/29/08 comment-#2687:
@Ali
I offer the following wisdom and advice, walaalkey:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
Unfortunately, many of the points that you made are true, however your truths aren’t as informative, revealing or as damning as you seem to believe.
Much of your ‘home truths’ are already widely known. There are a lot of ‘implicit wrongs’ (in the broadest sense) as well in what you have said. Let’s do a point by point by point breakdown of your comments:
‘Somalis at large don’t and have never considered themselves black nor do we identify with them on any appreciable level.’
This statement is generally true and is well known. This is a legitimate and understandable viewpoint to have and I don’t fault you for having it. I am concerned however when the stating of this feeling of distinction is tinged with:
1) a misunderstanding of what blackness actually connotes 2) Belief in one’s superiority over other humans 3) contempt and lack of respect for others 4) Attempts to limit Somali alternative outlook.
Nevertheless, the belief that some Somalis have which is that they are outside the domain of blackness is false. In my earlier comment on America’s Independence Day i.e. 4th July (see above), I explained who comes into the category of blacks, as defined by Western and much of the world’s standards. If you notice, I was talking to people like you (i.e. people who think they aren’t black) when I stated
‘Visible signs of ‘being of the ‘black people’ or ‘blackness’ (as it is most commonly termed) relates not only to features but ALSO skin complexion. It EVEN relates to those who may have non-‘african’ features and are light skinned.’
Although you may choose to accentuate your differences from ‘blacks’ and feel passionately about this point, your own perception does not and CANNOT displace the fact that within much of the world Somalis are PERCEIVED as being within the domain of blackness.
You need to be aware that Blackness is a created concept and is not ontologically concrete. Blackness is merely a frame of reference that humans use to categorise those individuals who have dark skin and look like they are of African descent. In fact ‘blackness’ as a state of being even extends to some communities in Polynesia and South East Asia who ‘look’(i.e. perception) like they have descended from Sub Saharan Africa but have no genetic or physiological connection to Africa at all. Blackness relates primarily to ‘perception’. Many of the people you consider ‘Bantu’ would perceive you as being ‘Bantu’ as well.
‘This is not to say that we hate blacks, but we certainly don’t consider them our “brothers”.’
Although you don’t have the authority to speak for all Somalis, this is generally true again. Nevertheless, what is false is the implicit assumption within your statement that ‘blacks’ consider Somalis or any other ‘black’ people their brothers, merely because they themselves are ‘black’. There are over 1 billion people on planet earth who are considered ‘black’. History, experience, locality, education and outlook are all factors that would affect someone’s subscription to the idea of a global ‘Black’ brotherhood.
‘It doesn’t just have to do with features or hair or overall appearance and physique, but also culture, language, provenance, mores, history, Deen, temperament, pride… Blacks have very little in common with us other than a shared continent and dark skin.’
This statement further highlights your poverty of knowledge about ‘Blackness’. Do you mean to say that 1 billion plus ‘blacks’ all have the same features, hair , overall appearance and physique, culture, language, provenance, mores, history, Deen, temperament and pride? This is utter BULL***T. What you have said is a tacit insult to others. Why would you negate the distinctiveness and exclusivity of hundreds of different African and diasporan African communities and individuals in order to emphasise your own disctinctiveness and status? Do you think that Omanis, Zimbabweans, Cubans, Fijians, Ghanians, Cape Verdeans, Malians, Tamil Sri Lankans, Surinamese or any other ‘black people’ all have the same features, hair, overall appearance and physique, culture, language, provenance, mores, history, Deen, temperament and pride. No they don’t! What makes you so special? Somalis are a nation of about 15-20 million people. Can you tell me what all ‘other blacks’ have in ‘common together’ which makes them completely distinguishable from Somalis?
Why is it that 1 billion ‘blacks’ are all simply ‘bantus’ (NIGGERS) in your worldview? This post originally spoke about African Americans, a nation of approximately 35-40 million people within the USA. Why do you want to be accorded the respect of being identified by your tribe but you don’t respect others enough to accord them the same treatment and call them ‘bantus’?
I think the mistake you have made is to confuse the East African perception of Jareer (the so called Adoon) with ‘blackness’. In one of Chris Rocks sketches he said Black people don’t have time to dice White people into bits and pieces i.e. Jews, Romanians, Australians etc. The same can be said for most of the non-black world -Whites, Asians, Arabs etc- they just don’t have time to dice ‘black people’ into bits and pieces. Blackness includes Jileec and Jareer! Surely you as a seemingly educated person would be aware of that!
‘I sincerely doubt you’re even Somali because rare is the Somali that belittles his or her own people wholesale, on so flimsy a pretext, and in front of Bantus to boot.’
This statement is extremely arrogant, presumptuous and is one of the reasons why Somalia has been in a state of civil war since 1988. Your statement also undermines your claim that you don’t hate ‘the Blacks’. At the minimum it does suggest you look down on Blacks. The outrageous and preposterous thing is that you attribute the status of Bantu (NIGGER) to Tariq Nelson and his audience in trying to have a dig at Leila.
Many peoples first Tribal identity is Islam before Nationality or Tribe. True Muslims seek to stand for truth and justice before anything. If their Kin is in the wrong and their foe (in this case ‘the Bantus/Blacks’ based upon your viewpoint) is in the right then they will support their foe for the sake of upholding truth and justice.
The Qur’an teaches us: “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.” [An-Nisa 4:35]
Be just, even if it is against your narrowly defined self-interest or of those very close to you. Ignorant people think they are protecting their self-interest by being unjust to others. Their decision to be just or unjust may be based on a cold calculation of self-interest. But real faith in Allah elevates one beyond that narrow-mindedness. These verses remind us that the real protector of interests of all people is also Allah and He will protect us when we follow His command to be just. The justice demanded by Islam permits no favoritism.
The Qur’an commands: “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.” [Al-Maidah 5:8]
In other words you cannot do injustice even when you are dealing with the enemy (e.g. ‘Black people’ based upon your worldview). The instinctive, untutored, and uncivilized tendency is to treat the enemy as less than a human being; one who has no rights and deserves no justice or fairness. It was as true in the pre-Islamic tribal jahilya society as it is today in Somalia. It is a command to the believers, with a reminder that Allah is watching you, that enmity of others cannot be used as an excuse for committing injustices against them.
Justice does require retribution and Islam does call for, “an eye for an eye.” But it does not mean an innocent eye for an innocent eye; it means the eye of the perpetrator for the eye of the victim. Fourteen hundred years ago these commands created a society where rich and poor, friend and foe, Muslim and non-Muslim, the ruler and the ruled, were all treated equally and all of them could count on receiving justice.
The Prophet Peace and Blessings be upon him said:
O people, those who have gone before you were destroyed, because if any one of high rank committed theft amongst them, they spared him; and if anyone of low rank committed theft, they inflicted the prescribed punishment upon him. By Allah, if Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, were to steal, I would have her hand cut off (Sahih Muslim)
Lets now juxtapose your comments with Somali Brother and Leila’s comments:
‘When were back home in East Africa, the media give us certain image of African Americans. We saw that they were, ‘drug dealers, rappers, criminals’ and then when we arrived here, that was just what we saw…..so, imagine how much shock that is to us.’ (Somali Brother)
‘You are contradicting yourself, if you were in six grade in America, how can you know what the media (if we have one) airs about African Americans. The average Somali man in Somalia could not have an opinion about African Americans because he wouldn’t
have access to information about them. (Leila)
‘FYI, Somalia has TV; that’s been one of the many constants throughout our current travails, struggles which, as an obvious non-Somali, you seem to have no trouble gloating in. If you were indeed Somali like you pretend to be, you’d already know this.’ (You Ali)
Sixth grade in the US is approximately 11 years of age. Thus we can infer therefore that Somali brother would have been claiming to be 10 or under whilst he was living in Somalia and watching TV. I think it’s a reasonable conclusion that it is unlikely that a 7, 8 or 9 year old Somali youngster would have access to such media that would allow him to view African Americans as drug dealers, rappers, criminals and adopt this as a crystallized viewpoint. Also, not everybody’s experience in Somalia was living in a protected HG neighbourhood in Hamar with Satellite TV (some people actually were suffering refugees living in IDP camps). So I think Leila’s viewpoint is perfectly reasonable and legitimate.
‘And yes, a lot of Somali people are racist against Blacks because they are influenced by what they have seen…so..who is to blame?’ (Somali Brother)
‘Only an ignorant person would justify racism with a poor excuse like yours.’(Leila)
As an obviously educated person and a Muslim, are you going to support the holding of racist views, my brother Ali? Based upon what racism entails, I myself would be very reluctant to align myself with and endorse having a racist outlook towards any group of people. Additionally, as a Somali you know that the prevailing thought in Somalia is that ‘Blacks’ are inferior regardless of whether they are model citizens or not. So the excuse of justifying racism based upon ones experiences or observations is additionally diminished.
‘You’d also know that what Somali brother writes is not out of a lack of pride, but the precise opposite of that: an excess of pride.’
The Prophet said: Whoever has pride in his heart equal to the weight of an atom shall not enter Paradise. A man inquired about a person who likes to wear beautiful clothes and fine shoes, and he answered: Allah is beautiful and likes beauty. Then he explained pride means rejecting the truth because of self-esteem and looking down on other people (Sahih Muslim).
Unfortunately, in my OPINION yours and Somalis brothers posts have nothing to do with the Quranic injunction of getting to know each other, increasing worldwide human appreciation and respect or positive pride, but it has more to do with supporting ones belief in ones innate superiority over others and the rejection of truth and justice because of ones tribal interests i.e. false pride.
It’s one thing to emphasise the fact that you feel different to other ‘blacks’ (this is your right and your welcome to it) but the inescapable fact is that by the grace of Allah your underlying/tacit racial supremacist beliefs and feelings have little currency in much of the world and are limited to East Africa. It is my solemn desire that any attempts to introduce this outlook to the West are impeded. I am not accusing you or Somali brother of being racists but I am saying that what you have said (from a more discerning eye) is definitely ‘racially loaded’ and I didn’t like it and felt obliged to challenge it. May Allah bless us and guide us all.
Wallahu Alam
Yes, being somali is like adopting a new culture, like you say. So is the arabization of muslims, generally.
Perhaps it’s true, in this context that you mention, it’s good not to have a chip on the shoulder, or to be sensitive when mistaken for another culture (BA vs Somali).
However, in other contexts, this switch of ethnicity might be a form of assimilation that erases other people’s experiences with Islam — or their experiences as people, period. Which is not about ‘being sensitive’ as much as it is about erasing history, experience and identity.
I think of india/pakistan — china/japan — southeast asia/india. These are examples of muslims around muslims.
So yeah, from the eyes of north america, I totally see your point. But from a more global perspective, or even from the eyes of the larger ummah in the world, i tend to stop … and think a bit more about it.
Best,
Quest
speaking only to the black americans on here it puzzles me why a black american would sit up here and debate with a somalian about culture . or anything for that matter ? the only reason i could think that it might be cuase some nuckle headed nigga trying to get some somali girl .well i got news for ya bro ive been there done that already and it aint nothing special about it . so stop crying about somalis not excepting you learn to love yourself how about that for a change and find some african american woman you could court . see we brothers man always want some other races to except us instead of our own thats just black hatred of oneself . infact i had to rebuke this brotha i know for being mad cuase he couldnt get some vietnames girl he liked . i thought nigga are you crazy runing around here trying to get some asian girl to like you .we are african americans we dont need to empress no other group in america we are america . black americans have a sence about them that demands respect without asking for it the clashes ive seen with somalis and african americans is do to somalis egos being cruched by standing in the presence of an african american . knowing that they cant do that bullying shit on us. we aint like no other african groups . black americans will and you can bet defend there pride and power at any cost we came here to america as humbled african slaves to work now these slaves have become kings of the empire . others see it and despise it blacks fought in the civil war crushing the confederation army to win freedom 400 years later roland burris / obama / micheal steel/ eric holder / susan rice / colin powell / condi rice / oh yea the first 2 african american nfl coaches are winners of the superbowl these are the most powerful people in america and many more that look like them well be next . they will be a major factor in deciding the fate of the failed state of somalia yea these adoons or black niggers will decide what will happen in your somalia hehehehheh!!!!!!!
i am somali living in kenya for almost adecade.i personaly have no problem with people whom we are leaving with and i dont see why they should hate us too
Wow! After reading some of the comments, I must let my Somali husband know that he’s not black. As an African American woman I was unaware that I had been in an interracial relationship all this time…..LOL! I hope some of the posts above were alluding to the fact that they are not African American but are still black. My Somali in-laws used to try to give me “hell”, but I had to let them know from “jump street” that I am free woman who will NOT be oppressed by anyone; especially as it relates to culture, gender, religion, etc. I found “guilt” to be their weapon of choice. Guilty because he came to North America slightly ahead of them, guilty because his female relatives REFUSED to work (beneath them) anywhere, guilty because he dated women from other African countries besides Somalia, guilty because he ended up marrying me, etc. I could go on. Over the years, I have found the men to be incredibly polite and engaging and the woman to be angry, self-absorbed and immature. Even now, my husband works for a company which employees a few Somalis. Once the (Somali) women found out he was married to an African American, the lying and sabotage reared its ugly head yet again. With the exception of 2 of his Somali friends, all are married to African American women. My experience has been that Somali women get “caught up” in their physical appearance………..gorgeous women! But, there is something to be said for personality, self-sufficiency, higher education, homeownership and checking one’s sense of entitlement at the proverbial door. What else are you bringing to the table?There are always exceptions to the rule. I’m speaking in generalities.
Lastly, this whole business about looking like another group is nothing new. The black community here and abroad is very diverse. There are segments of the the African American community I cannot relate to. Growing up I was often referred to as “mut” “oreo”, etc. I am not mixed but I have green eyes, curly hair and a light complexion. With that being said, at the end of the day, I’m still a part of the larger black community. This may be a hard lesson for black immigrants to learn but in America RACE trumps ethnicity, national origin, etc., all day every day. Some of my husband’s family have been here for almost 30 years and every year their accent gets thicker……….still trying to make a distinction that has no merit in the US.
Unfortunately, the forecast doesn’t look good for our daughter and her Somali family.
@ New Day
Some of the reticence you’re experiencing from the family may be because of Religion. Are you a Muslim? I ask because some of the statements in your post made me wonder.
The reason I ask is that, if your husband is a Muslim, he is not allowed to be married to you.
Hi Daud,
I was not born a Muslim but the plan was for me to convert. After dealing with my in-laws I was completely turned off from Islam. Religion was the least of it. It was there anger at loosing control and their “bank”, my husband. There were immediate family members “shacking up” without being married, drug abuse/theft, etc. The primary issue was that I couldn’t be controlled by some unwarranted guilt or allegiance. Equally as important is my being African American and proud of it. Imagine that? LOL! I think they could have made peace with the union had I been a black immigrant or just simply white. There was no issue when his cousin married a Christian from Tanzania.
@ New Day
I have to be honest with you. Allaah said in the Qur’an,
5:5 “…(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time…”
This Ayah gives permission for Muslim men to marry jewish or christian women. However, there is a huge caveat, and that is the woman must be chaste i.e. she never fornicated (i.e. sex outside of marriage). If a woman from the jews and christians fornicated–which most of them do–a Muslim man is not permitted to marry her.
I have to be honest with you; if you fall into the category of unchaste women, your marriage is not valid, and you’ll probably always have problems with most of the Muslims you and your “husband” encounter.
Learn the Religion of Islaam. Don’t base it on what you see from actions of ignorant people. As a Muslim, your husband could be in serious trouble with his Lord, because the possible invalidity of your marriage could make him a fornicator–which in Islaam is MAJOR sin that can get him thrown into the Hell-Fire. It’s one of the worst things a person can do!
Lastly, you can not become a Muslim just to be with him. You have to enter Islaam because you believe in it.
Only idiots base association with color ….meaning just because a indian is as dark as a black american doesnt mean the indian is a black american and identifies with the plight of the black american or culture of the black american …many africans themselves dont consider themselves black americans… somali’s make a claim of berber and arab…..both of them today look at the somali as a african and look down on them ….the arab looks down on the berber……and vice versus…..nothing but a STUPID chain ….unlizzted2009……
Tariq still has an interesting blog…….he must be resting because their has been some interesting world news and usa news he hasnt been reporting……
@ New Day
‘Wow! After reading some of the comments, I must let my Somali husband know that he’s not black. As an African American woman I was unaware that I had been in an interracial relationship all this time…..LOL! I hope some of the posts above were alluding to the fact that they are not African American but are still black.’
This is the frustrating thing that needs to be understood. Although you have the one drop rule in the US and it exists in the Western world, to many people, it is irrelevant. In the perception of many of your husband’s compatriots the issue is not simply distinguishing oneself from AAs. The issue is actually distinguishing oneself from Blackness per se i.e all Blacks. It even includes ‘Black’ people like yourself who have phenotypically passable (or near passable) features but are biologically and historically connected to ‘real’ or undeniably Black people from West Africa.
This alternative outlook is pervasive in parts of Africa and is entrenched and DEEPLY held. The fact that some are unaware of it or downplay its significance doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Unfortunately AAs might choose to either:
-remain confused/ignore it or
- alternatively have an HONEST chat with an East African who will break down this outlook.
So YES, actually in the mindset of many people you HAVE been involved in a mixed race marriage. The fact that phenotypically you look passable or near passable probably caused this issue to be downplayed or not mentioned. I seriously doubt that you would be writing LOL if you couldn’t almost pass.
@Daud
Hi Daud. We’ve been together almost 10 years. We only have contact with 1 family member and his immediate family. We learned early on that they were only going to be disruptive and sabotaging us at every turn. And like I said, the women in HIS family were living with SOMALI men they were not married to…………….not I! It’s easy to want to blame the “whore American woman”. As we know sex before marriage happens everywhere. Some people just lie about it or bury their heads in the sand. I explored the possibility of Islam prior to us meeting. My exploration came to a screeching halt after meeting my future in-laws. I felt that if your religion allows and even encourages you to behave like this, in the name of God/Allah, then I don’t want any part of that! I don’t participate in any organized religion. My experience has been that it paralyzes black people globally and it is used as a good excuse to bring “fire and brimstone” to others. I’m talking about Christianity as well. I don’t think we’ll have problems greater than what we had before. Because, again, I set the tone for the interaction. If you think you’re going to be passive agressive, rude and condescending to me just because I’m not Somali or Muslim, you’re going to get corrected on the spot for all to see. What does any religion say about that kind of behavior? It’s easy to treat it like a buffet…………pick whatever principles work for you at that time……….Thank you for your insight Daud!
@UK Brother
Hi. I am using the one drop rule because my husband and I live in the U.S. and that is the standard. In other parts of the world he may not have to identify as black or be identified by others as black, but here he is for the most part. Although in the South (U.S. states) he’s asked alot by whites and blacks if he’s Indian (East)…………Passing is subjective. No, I don’t think I could pass. Just as Vanessa Williams or Alicia Keys can’t pass. Also, I say that my husband is black because that is how HE identifies himself. I had an honest chat with an East African, my husband. Thanks!
New Day,
Inform the man that you are involved with that he is is not “married.” If he is having sex (with you), then he is just fornicating, and if he has offspring, then the children are not his, and he has no legal rights on them and they have none on him. The children he breeds are illegitimate. Now ff he deems his “marriage” TO BE VALID to someone who is not affiliated with a religion–or the alleged “marriage” was not performed according to Islamic Law, then that contradicts what is necessarily known as part of the Religion, and that constitutes kufr (disbelief). If that is the case, inform him that he needs to take the Shahadah to return to Islam.
Also, if he is following the Shafi`iyy school (which presumably he is b/c that’s what ancestors have traditionally followed), then his marriage, even if the bride claimed to be a Christian (or Jew) would not be valid with an African-American. SMH, this seems to be another case of the disasterous consequences of Muslims not learning their Religion. It’s not surprising that so many of the Somalis in the West are as jacked up as they are.
Thank you for your directives Swarth Moor. I’ll get right on that and inform him. Do you honestly believe that anything you say can impact the validity of my marriage and our offspring? How dare you attack our child? All in the name of Allah huh? Yet, more justification to be nasty and rude. Yes, some Somalis in the West are jacked up. But what about the millions you left behind? How are they doing with a weak government in the South and pirates running amock? If the West isn’t working for you and yours, there are planes leaving everyday that can take you back to Somalia. You opted to come to the West and you are free to leave at anytime.
From this point forward, I hope that there can be an exchange of experiences and information; not just personal attacks. Clearly, your tolerance for others (especially African Americans ) is zero to none. That’s fine. Luckily, we aren’t looking for anyone’s approval. That ego is out the door………………………..
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
What is the point of anyone giving lectures to a non-Muslim woman about why her marriage is not Islamically valid? Why don’t you all go find her husband and lecture him, because it is to him that this is supposed to matter.
After reading some of the responses, my husband was thoroughly disgusted but not at all surprised. He asked “what did you expect, you know them”? We dealt with this almost 10 years ago. With very few exceptions, he’s right. He’s suggested that I not waste my time and engage in any dialogue. I respect my Somali husband so I’ll do just that.
All the best to everyone in 2009! I hope you find the happiness and peace we’ve found without the need to oppress or belittle others.
Ciao!
@ New Day
I think it is great that you and the Somali brother found each other.
Most nations on the racial issue will eventually follow the one drop rule. There is really only a tiny majority of people in East Africa that do not consider themselves to be African or black.
I find coincidental that Jendayi Frazer and Donald Payne, who are both AA, are going to be instrumental in the US policy toward Somali. I wonder if they are familar with their antipathy toward AA.
Salaam
New Day,
I’m just letting you know that your husband isn’t married, well, at least not to you (he may have other wife/wives), but you aren’t one of them. Likewsie, the children born from non-marriages do not belong to the “fathers.” This isn’t a personal attack, it is about people FIXING their situation. Furthermore, it is important that this type of deviant behavior doesn’t further spread and become normalized among people from Muslim families, so i am not going to paint what you described in a kind light.
Regarding leaving folks behind, i ain’t never been to Somalia, nor has anyone in my family. As Bruce Springstein says, I WAS BAWN IN THE USA. A good friend of mine, however, has a Somali wife (he’s African-American, incidentally), and i’ve heard the horror stories from him and her about the condition of many of the Somalis in the US and Canada. Went to Columbus last summer and saw the tragic sight of lost black ghetto kaafir wannabe Somali youth there. Seen some here, for that matter.
Immigrant Muslims are witnessing the UTTER MELTDOWN of their familes by coming to the West. What a DISASTER has been described. PLEASE PEOPLE, see to it that we LEARN THE DEEN, and teach our kids, before this mess totally envelops the Ummah in America.
Uh, Ron,
If what this person has described is true, then there is nothing “great” about it. They aren’t married and fornication is an ENORMITY!
A Muslim male’s marriage is ONLY VALID to a Muslimah, a Jew, or a Christian. A Muslim man cannot marry a person who has no religion. This is a basic rule in the Deen. Any intercourse from such a relationship is zina (fornication), and any children that result are ILLEGITIMATE.
PLEASE, let us learn before we speak without knowledge.
With Allah is the success.
@ Yusuf Smith,
To answer your question about “lecturing”–it’s to let herself and others (who are not Muslim–and horrendously ignorant Muslims, for that matter) know that such “marriages” are not valid, and that we consider those people nothing other than fornicators (if they have intimate relations). Perhaps, God-willing, it will discourage some people from engaging in such relationships. Consequently, it is part of ordering al-ma`ruf and forbdding al-munkar.
P.S.
Apparently, the woman has told the man she is having kids with what was said. In-sha’ Allah, this man will feel ashamed of his sins and ruinging his lineage and shaming his family. In-sha’ Allah he will repent.
Uh Swath Moor -
I never brought up the validity of their marriage. Now if those two want to fornicate that is their business.
Whether or not she is a person of the book is also another issue.
She does not belong to an organized religion - she is not a member of a church. Many christians and jews do not believe in organized religion.
She did not call herself an atheist or agnostic.
If she is not a person of the book, her marriage is Islamically invalid. However, the separation of church and state in the US allows for a legal marriage with religious sanction. We can compartmentalize our lives as citizens and muslims.
Thus, I can as a human being and American citizen grant her well wishes although her marriage does not conform to Sharia.
Salaam
Without seeming to go round in circles. Having looked at some of the posts I get the impression some of the readers don’t quite get it. That’s Okay.
I’ll break it down in lay mans terms. Without taking into account the dynamics of how Black people or people with Black blood (including near passable Vanessa Williams /Beyonce type black people) are perceived and mandated to be treated in Somali clan theory, any discussions about tensions/engagement etc are futile. It’s hot air.
I think AAs who are discussing this topic coming from a one drop rule angle are making a huge mistake. I agree the one drop rule is what applies in much of the world but to use the one drop rule as a way of trying to establish commonality is a baseless foundation.
New Day said the following:
‘This may be a hard lesson for black immigrants to learn but in America RACE trumps ethnicity, national origin, etc., all day every day.’
That might be true but how do you deal with a mindset where the prevalent mindset is that you are of a different RACE (not ethnicity or nationality) to ‘Blacks’ and are superior to them.
What I’d really like is for someone to factor in the RACE element into this whole topic because by ignoring it,it’s like having a large elephant in the room and pretending it doesn’t exist. Perhaps if we acknowledge RACE then we can talk RELIGION (i.e the deen) on how to heal these RACIAL tensions.
@ UK Brother -
Do you know how many ethiopians, somalis, eritreans, and other that I have grown up with in my lifetime. Being from Los Angeles - living in Houston, ATlanta, San Diego, Daytona, and Boston - you get an idea about people’s racial perceptions.
I know too many AA who can pass for Somali and many Somali who can pass for AA. The whole race issue is a non-factor. Most people relate on a human level anyway.
Like I said before, I know Somali sisters who marry AA men and it is not a big deal. Somali women who adopt AA children and it is not a big deal.
The issue of superiority is nothing more than a smoke screen for other issues. AA likely make more fun of others and look down on others than they do us.
So the false pretense of superiority only works with AA who do not understand a typical immigrants/refugees’ circumstances.
Somali clan theory like Indian caste methodology dissolves based upon our classless society in the US unlike the U.K.
Most americans are hardworking people willing to give others the benefit of the doubt.
The U.K. probably will not have anything akin to BO for another century. The historical strides made by AA and other conscientious people have paved the way for immigrant transformation.
The American approach for immigrant transformation unlike Europe’s approach demands accultration and assimilation. Thereby, Somali immigrants will eventually leave behind their clan theory ways.
The tensions between Somalis and AA remain between people within certain socioeconomic status anyway. This does not represent the relationship between upwardly mobile AA and Somalis who get along fine anyway.
Most issues focus on the dynamics between blue collar people in competition for manual labor jobs.
Somalis that see AA who happen to be professionals do not look down upon them, especially when their livlihood may depend on AA genorousity.
Salaam
Hey Ron,
If people wish to advertise their deviance in public, then it ceases to be “their business.” There is the grave danger, especially since ignorance is so rife in the Ummah, that this deviant behavior might become “normalized” in the minds of ignoramuses.
Christianity and Judaism ARE ORGANIZED RELIGIONS. One cannot be a “Christian” or a “Jew” (Jew in the religious sense) and reject organized religion. Such people are deemed apostates by traditional Judaism and Christianity. Furthermore, IF these people were allegedly “married” by the customary practice of the Somalis–i.e., in the Shafi`iyy madhhab, then the marriage would not be considered legitimate according to the conditions of the school, for the Muslim man cannot marry an African-American Christian or Jew.
The alleged “separation of Church and state” has NO BEARING regarding the judgments in the Deen. Muslims judge by Islam–not by global corporate secular consumerism. Next thing ya know, Ron, you’re gonna be wishin’ Todd and Tom “well” in their alleged same-sex “marriage”… because the guvmint says it’s legit. Fornication is an ENORMITY regardless of where it takes place; ergo, we cannot “wish someone well” in their fornication, for it BELIES THE RELIGION, and beyling the Religion is kufr.
UK Brother,
When it is discussed about why others look down upon “blacks,” it is never discussed (by “blacks”) WHY others look down upon them. Someone can correct me if i am wrong, but i would imagine that the Somalis embraced Islam and mixed with the Arab traders/proselytizers BEFORE the “other blacks” in the interior of Africa. Consequently, this gave the Somalis a superior social status in the region.
The (other) blacks in the interior were taken as slaves. People tend to look down on defeated and enslaved people. That’s just human nature. Furthermore, many of the blacks in the African interior were (and many remain to be) straight up pagan savages. No schools, no books, no clothes–worshipping jinn/statues. Not a very sophisticated bunch–and a bunch that sensible folks would try to distance themselves from.
In regards to Somalis and AA, who, living in an urban area, would in their right mind look up to African-American (kaafirs)?!? You are talking about a tribe of ignorant and stupid, violent, lascivious, dysfunctional, drugged out/drunked out criminals. It’s just natural to look down upon such people. And given that the Somalis are Muslims and most AA are not, it is the Somalis’ OBLIGATION to look down on such people. That’s not to say that the Somalis don’t over the top in regards to their tribal identities, but still they are not wrong for having a general disdain for African-Americans.
@ Ron
Most of what you have said is true and would equally apply to the UK as well. I don’t know what is so special about the US that allows the points you raised to be completely different to here in the UK. There is nothing within your post above that doesn’t apply to African Caribbeans in the UK as well i.e marriage, passing etc.
Nevertheless, to ignore RACE as the central issue in the relationship would be ignoring hundreds of years of acculturation. I can’t deny your experience and I won’t try to, nevertheless I’d guess that your experiences relate to localities where Somali numbers aren’t anywhere near like in places such as Ohio, Minneapolis, Seattle, Toronto or London thus RACE might tend to be downplayed as the tribal instinct wouldn’t be emphasised in such an instance. Here in the UK, most cities have communities like in Ohio, Minneapolis etc thus the RACE element is quite prominent.
UK Brother -
You may be right. Southern California has around 25 million people so Somalis do not stand out like in smaller metropolitan areas
Salaam
Yes you are right Swarthmoor, the Somalis who have massacred each other over tribe, killed, raped and pillaged hundreds of thousands of people, displaced millions of people and destroyed their country for almost 20 years are OBLIGED to look down at AAs.
Kalimaat,
The Somalis, if they are killed on the correct creed, i.e., die as Muslims, go to Paradise (eventually). The African-Amercan kaafir, on the other hand, is condemned to Hell (forever). Allah did not equate the Believer with the disbeliever.
P.S.
If all the whites, Latinos, and Asians died off tomorrow and only the African-American kaafirs were left, do you honestly think this place would be much better off than Somalia in 10 years? Shoot, you’d almost have 20% of the young male population incarcerated!!! Half the government budget would be spent taking care of the illegit kids keeping the criminals locked up!!!
Wow, I read most of the comments on this site and I’m pretty surprised at some of the responses. How can we as Somalis not see ourselves as Black yet we share the same colour as Black Americans. There’s all different types of Blacks not just one.
Even though we don’t have the same culture as Black Americans, I identify myself as fully Black cause that’s what I am. It’s quite sad that Somalis think there better than others. Allah created us all equal no one is better than anyone else. That’s all I need to say.
Anisa,
It is true that Somalis are a “black” people. And it is haraam to hate a person simply because of their skin color. However, one must be careful in how they say things. Many people calling themselves Muslims adopt some VERY unislamic expressions. Allah did NOT create everyone equal. Allah granted a status upon the Prophets far above and beyond the rest of the creations (3:33).
The also Qur’an says (in meaning):
“The learned are not to be equated with the ignorant.”
Furthermore, Allah did not equate the kaafir with the Muslim (98:6-7).
The Somalis are a Muslim people. When we meet a Somali, we assume, according to the Shar`, that the person is Muslim (unless we’ve seen or heard something that contradicts that). That’s not the case with an African-American. We assume this person is kaafir–unless the person shows signs of Islam (e.g., hijaab) or says he (or she) is a Muslim.
Consequently, a Somali is not unjustified in thinking that he (or she) is superior to an African-American (in general), but would be unjustified in assuming superiority over an African-American MUSLIM, for it is possible for an African-American Muslim to be more pious than a Somali Muslim. Afterall, piety is NOT based upon color or national origin, but on having the correct Creed, doing virutous deeds, refraining from sins, and being steadfast to the more appropriate acts.
With Allah is the success.
The kaafir is not equal to the muslim. The accountable person who rejects ISLAM is an enemy of God. He or she will be among the loses on the Day of Judgement. Of course we want for them to embrace Islam before the die. But the bottom line is the muslim has a higher status than the kaafir. Most americans are kaafir. It does not matter if the kaafir is white or black, he or she is not equal to the muslim.
http://dawudadib.wordpress.com/
This filthy person must be stopped
dont go to the link it was forwarded to me…..astaghfiu’laah
LOL!
Swarth Moor! Don’t tell that to Jamerican Muslimah, because she would ban you. She has a post about that now, title “My people” and read the comments below. Wow! and I feel sorry for her, and the likes of her.
What about Africentric Muslims? How about the Muslims of America-African-Americans, who don’t want to “make a new identity” and will cut another Muslim head off, when talking about Black Americans in general. They can’t let go…struggling to surrender, I guess.
Khadija,
These are not “my people”:
http://mrsgrapevine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/lilwayne.jpg
http://yourdailychum.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/att1080501.jpg
Granted, A LOT of Muslims do bad things. But a Muslim has to recognize right and wrong. He has recognize to the authority of the Qur’an and Sunnah–if he doesn’t, he’s not a Muslim. However, for these ghetto pagans, what is the basis of their morality? They have none–other than perhaps, rap videos/magazines. What are in the world are THEY on?!?
These folks are what they are: kaafirs/disbelievers–they are like their tatted, drunken, shameless, nekkid, bone in the nose, illit-rit, lascivious pagan savage ancestors that were brought over here back in the day when the Muslims and the white pagans were catching and selling them. (Sadly, some African Muslims got captured, and we see the consequence of what happened to the African Muslims because they did not preserve their Religious identity. In a generation or two their descendants were eating fatback and praying to Jesus.)
It BEHOOVES African-Ameican Muslims to LEARN THEIR DEEN and develop a NEW IDENTITY that is distinct from black kaafir culture–and ESPECIALLY black ghetto kaafir culture!!! As one of the Brothers and i said simultaneously the other day: this black ghetto culture is like a VIRUS. You have the children of Muslims immitating the disgusting, repulsive, vile criminal “culture” of these black ghetto kaafirs.
In-sha’ Allah, African-American Muslims will learn their Deen CORRECTLY, and then evaluate their co-tribesmen on the scale of Islamic Law. Also, folks, need to be honest: a WHOLE LOT of these ghetto pagans LIKE THEIR LIFESTYLE. They write “poetry” about it. They fight for it. They die for it. THEY LOVE IT… and if you invite them to Islam, most will not accept. The fact of the matter is that virtually all of them have heard about Malcolm X/or seen the movie. You can’t say these ghetto pagans can’t relate to Malcolm’s lifestyle (in his earlier years), but how many of them thereafter actually set forth to investigate Islam? (Some did–but most didn’t.)
Allah guides whomever He wills. That’s what it all boils down to–and i prefer to be with the ones whom Allah has guided.
WIth Allah is the success.
I honestly dont understand whats the big deal here. I have been reading so many Blogs lately by AA Muslims and for some odd reason all they seem to do is attack attack and more attack on other cultures and specifically Somali’s, Arabs and South Asians. Ironically Cultures that are much more similar to each other. My Take on this is we do we as Somali have to respect AA only because they are Black? We treat all Muslims regardless of their background as equal but in my understanding reading most of these Blogs, it seems people here seem to be bringing their American Racial mind to Islam. Iam Somali and Yes i will admit we are arrogant, full of Pride and stick to our own and if some of you did some research you would have known by now that we are after all the most Homengous society in Africa and probably the world. Only the Japanese come close to us in that field. I think one of the biggest problems stems from that we the Somali Population in the states are concentrated in states where AA numbers are very low compared to the south or NYC and PA, so we dont really interact. I will be honest i myself had this misconception that all AA were members of the NOI of Islam until i met some here in Minneapolis and did some more research. I dont think we hate AA or anyone else but i would just say that arent as sociable as most people are. To most of us including me who was born here in the west we are always wary of a non Somali and even when they are Muslim we tend not go past the Salaam. Its a culture thing.
Salaam
Somalis have no obligation to AA or AA muslims. Let them do their thing and we can do our thing.
I would think that most AA muslims would be conservative and would not want interact socially with non-AA muslims anyway.
My community of muslims has everything that I need and I do not need to look outside of it. I am content and I have nothing against Somalis.
I like the way that Somalis stick to themselves. AA should also learn to be this way as well and our community will be stronger for it.
N.B. - Somalia is actually very diverse from the Oromos to the clans - the nomadic Somali has dominated and has had all other minorities assume their culture.
I know that there will be movements in Somalia along these lines eventually.
Salaam
I really dont see why anyone wuld care about Somalis opinion. They are lazy criminals and parasitic welfare cretins. Plus they are dirty, smell horribly and are religious zealots. Everyone here in Kenya loathes them, seeking refuge in ‘Bantu’ land!
@ My-Key
What a load of garbage you’ve just written! Not only is what you’ve said highly offensive and racist, it illustrates that you’re probably a liar. It would be interesting to know how you’ve formed the opinion that Somalis are ‘welfare cretins’ if you’re living in Kenya? I’d really like to travel to Kenya to discover the generous hospitality and welfare that the Kenyan system provides?
No one people are perfect and labelling entire people with simplistic, demeaning qualities is what is actually lazy, criminal and parasitic.
@ UK Brother -
I hear what your saying but you have to understand that Somalis will have this reputation in “bantu” dominated lands. South Africa, Kenya, and other places will consider Somalis as outsiders.
The days of insulting one group of so-called bantu people and not have other bantu people aware of it is over. The world is too small now.
Just like u.k. muslims feel the pain of palestinians so will other blacks of west african/bantu/farmers descent feel the pain throughout the diaspora.
I agree that we should never generalize.
We are fortunate to be in the West where tolerance is promoted and we do not get into tribal/ethnic warfare.
My-Key
Your nothing but an ignorant bafoon. Somali’s in Kenya are actually some of the Wealthiest people in that country and own more Business in Nairobi than even the Local’s themselves. Its true Somali’s are hated in every African country but than we have come to expect that. Most African hate us and we return the Favor Kindly and that wont be changing anytime soon.
@ Marwa and Ron
If I’ve misconstrued you’re comments may I stand corrected. Nevertheless, its understandable how both of you have come to your conclusions, but I don’t think you’re conclusions are justified. We should NEVER condone or justify hatred because of others actions or perceptions towards us. Hatred, envy, bitterness etc are HUMAN responses but we shouldn’t promote them or give support to them where possible. For example- Every person has his or her share of envy. Imam Ibn Taymiyah said: “Nobody is free from envy, but the noble person hides it whilst the base person shows it.” (Amraad al-Quloob).
As a basic principle of Islam, we Muslims, shouldn’t hate anyone simply on account of their cultural, religious, or ethnic backgrounds. Islam teaches us to interact with people and wish good for the whole of mankind. This case is very similar to that of a doctor and a patient. The doctor does not hate the diseased patient/community, rather he or she hates the disease and tries every possible means to cure the disease and help the patient to recover. We Muslims hate Bigotry and Racism and we should spare no effort to do away with this disease of false pride and racist superiority and cure people’s sickness and help them realize that the ONLY truly superior one is God Almighty.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him) was asked ‘Is it tribalism for a man to love his people?, and he said: ”No, tribalism is to support your people in an injust cause.” [Musnad Ahmad]
If you’re people are the ‘Black people’ tribe, ‘The White people’ tribe or the ‘Latino’ tribe don’t support them if there is a promotion of hatred, injustice and racism.
Any student of history would realize that much of the racist movements of the past have been couched in claiming to be REACTING to other ‘tribes’ racism i.e. Nazi Germany, Hutu-Tusti Rwanda/Burundi etc. We should challenge the racism not engage in reverse hatred and racism.
“Believers, stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others toward you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (Qur’an 5:8)
“…let not the hatred of some people ……lead you to transgression. Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear God, for God is strict in punishment.” (Qur’an 5:2)
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him) used to say in his supplications, “Wahdi qalbi wa’slul sakheemata sadri (guide my heart and remove ill will from my breast).” In this instance ‘Removing ill will from my breast’ means to take away all insincerity, rancour and hatred.
No matter what has been done to you or your tribe, Almighty God says, you are not allowed to commit injustice. The ends do not justify the means. I hate bigotry, regardless of who upholds it, black tribe or white tribe, rich or poor.
Don’t align yourself with the qabeel of hatred, anger, fear, resentfulness, racism or bigotry but with the qabeel of truth and justice.
Sincerely- UK Brother
Thanks UK.
Your absolutely on point.
Salaam
@ Ron
No problem Akh
Wa ‘alaykum salaam
Marwa said:
“I honestly dont understand whats the big deal here. I have been reading so many Blogs lately by AA Muslims and for some odd reason all they seem to do is attack attack and more attack on other cultures and specifically Somali’s, Arabs and South Asians.”
I agree sister! I am disappointed by some AA blogs myself. I’m AA so calm down. I dont get it either, what’s all the complaining and stuff about?
I’ve visited Minnesota and I got treated better by the Somali sisters than the AA sisters which surprised and shocked me. I mean, they seem to avoid each other like the plague. Some AA sisters I meet there were so negative towards the Muslims I left. I have no reason to lie, it was horrible. I will just refrain from saying what I heard. After visiting MN; I had to ask myself why is the AA always beefing with everyone?
I may be wrong, but I think I observed this right. The AA sisters seem to think that the “guest” Somali should “serve” them the hosts; so, they dont engage with them because it’s like they wanted them to come and serve them. It’s like they had this mentality that “I was here first” I got along with the Somali because I looked at it as they are “our guest” and we AA are the “host” and we should see that our guests are okay. I took the Islamic point of view, that a Muslim is to look after the affairs of another Muslim. Marwa is right! They are not social at all. I felt this and I’m AA can’t imagine what others feel.
Sorry if I offend anyone! I didn’t mean too. I think we as AA should really look within ourselves and be truthful. How many times have you heard AA say “Arabs, Asians, Africans, etc., don’t like us anyway? What? Even if it’s true, not all people or even half the people will hate you. It’s annoying.
UK you are correct! We really must stop.
UK Brother
Thanks for the Kind word’s, if only more people were like you. I honestly dont even know that many AA Muslims since i live in MN and there isnt many of them here. It seem’s they are more concentrated in the East Coast. As for other African’s we have no problems with them other than Ethiopians and that is expected since our War’s with them go back for a 1000 years.
Halima Nur
I think most Blogs are actually a reaction of what really is happening in America. AA Muslims were at one point the only Muslim’s in this country and time is working against them since we the immigrant Muslims will outnumber them, so they are being defensive. It makes sense but some have taken it too far. I can only Speak for Somali’s and i will admit we are not a sociable society. For most of us we distinguish between the AA Muslims and other AA but it seem’s some in here arent happy with that. Iam sorry but we really dont view non Muslims as our Kin. My advice to all, why even care about who like’s you or doesnt. Live your Life and adhere to the sunnah and thats all you need. Ps some people need to take a chill bill and quit hating on Immigrant Muslim’s. i dont see people hating on West African Muslims but its like hating on Somalis, Arabs and Asians has become popular norm.
this is very interesting…african americans are lying to their selvez…dude wake up smell the coffe those NI99ERS are good for nothing…they steal kill and be on the streetz…thats all their good at…they hate on the somalis becuz first of we are muslims and they think every person who wears the hijab stinks…second..they know somalis look better than them so they hate to smack talk us…i hate africans americans with a passion…talking about we welcomed iman with open hands were friendly people…nigro plss iman reprsented all african women wen iman became a model there was no nigro model…then after they seen her doing big the started to claim her n call her sis…these animals are good for nothing someone should get them back as being slaves again…thats what they good at….they will never learn they bad in schools they cant even spell their own names thats how dumb they are….i dont blame them i blame the kinky hair they got on their heads that prolly stopps gettin something thru their thick head..lool I HATE THEM real talk…n im from the u.s…talkin abt we AA’s live in the american dream..loooooooooll that was the joke of the day thanks for making me laugh…wana be marther luther king lol.
I would like to point out that all the Somalis from Columbus that Oho is one of the fucking worst state in the nation. No one worth shit of any race or ethnicity stays
Такой пост и распечатать не жалко, редко такое найдешь в инете, спасибо!
Wow! In my part of the country African-American Muslims, African-American Christians and Somalis get along very well. There exists a strong bond between the three.
On to another issue. We African-American Muslims need to better organize and pull from our human and economic capital, because if we don’t we will become marginalized amongst our fellow Muslims, and our fellow Americans. We have so much talent, and not enough organizational leadership. One thing that we do have is a lot of spiritual leadership.
Since his (Anti-AA) his words showed his ignorance. I suppose the word itself ignor-ant or ignor-rant, is so close to ignoring a rant, I’ll do just that, but, why would you, Tariq, even allow someone to comment with such stupidity and ignorance to begin with?
Even the name shows just how ignorant this guy is going to comment.
Anti-AA
Hi/Salam,
I am Somali and I would like AA to know that not all Somalis use the term Jareer. The term is from Southern Somalia. I come from Djibouti and we don’t call anyone by the texture of their hair. Also, arrogance is haram in Islam and whoever is arrogant will pay for it one day!
But you guys need to learn to be less sensitive too.
I don’t live in the US and don’t know AA much but I have heard of the problems in US and UK (betw Somalis and Jamaicans).
I dont know African Americans but I know Canadian Black or French Blacks and one thing I would like all these people to do is to leave us alone defining our own identity. While I agree on having some sort of solidarity with other African communities of this world, I don’t want anyone to tell me who I am and where I came from.
I also do not like what some people try to play trying to make us choose between themselves and Arabs or tell us we want to be Arabs. We are Somalis and we may for some of us have some Arab blood but it doesn’t define us. We also do not give a shit of the ignorant Arab who may try to be arrogant with us…we dont’ even see it or give them a chance. We are ourselves and secure with ourselves.
Among the Somalis we will find those who will identify themselves as Black and we will find those who don’t n think just Somalis. We will also find some who will think of them as half Arabs…I think people identify with those they look like. A very dark Somali won’t identify as Arab and an Arab looking Somali won’t identify as Black but both will feeel more Somali than anything else!
As for marriage between Somalis and AA, attraction plays a big role. If someone is enough attracted to another race/nationality they may consider marrying them. For the Somali Islam is also needed. I for example am not attracted at all to most other Africans and AA but I have nothing against anyone. If I see a Somali sister interested in marrying AA, all I will care is that he is a good Muslim…for the rest, it is the same thing for me Arab or AA or blue green etc. I consider there is racism when people advise others to do not enter into a marriage but not if they don’t want for themselves.
For the parents, understand that they are not easy on any nationality and may even have restrictions for other tribes. All parents want their chidlren to marry from among those they know to have some control and make sure their daughter son won’t be getting into trouble. Hovever if a brother who is wellknown for his character and religion and is good for the daugher come to them and the daughter likes him, they should check his reputation and past life and let their daughter marry him. We are all humans and none is better than others.
Salam/Bye/Ciao/Nabadgalyo
The stuff that I have to post could be a whole book and I don’t feel like it now. I will simply say that the niggas,coconuts, and skinnies amongst African Americans, Caribbean Islanders, and Somalis need to take off the tin foil hat, stop drinking the cyanide spiked koolaid, and truly get a grip because for all the looking down upon one another that we do, we are not faring well in anywhere in the world or the places we live! Between the poverty and civil war in Somalia, post-colonial poverty and underdevelopment in the Caribbean, and Black on Black crime and poverty in the U.S., where is the room for any group to be judgmental of anyone.One top of all this we got colorism and internal strife to boof. I love all the groups being AA myself and know that all the groups have vibrant cultures,alot of resilience and a lot of achievers. But lets be real, none of us are qualified to be the judges and juries of any body else.
unknown
How can you ask the black folks who are effected by this ghetto thugnificant type of garbage to stop set trippin, when that is what they, as a whole, love and enjoy? It is like asking someone who has done a drug for most of their life, to stop cold turkey. It doesn’t happen. And sadly, do you know what *does* happen to most drug addicts? They die in the gutter.
Soundmind, do you think that many African American have had the best encounters with their continental cousins? There are stories of Africans coming to marry their U.S. cousins for green cards. There are stories of African men being domineering and treating African American women like dirt the same way that there are stories of African American men mistreating African women. Some Africans come to the U.S. and expect African Americans to cast aside everything about them to accomodate them. Don’t get me wrong, I hold no illusions about the silliness of my own African American compatriots on certain things. I am tired of our ignorance on Africans and Africa. I am tired of the self-destructive trends within the community. I’m serious, but I see that Africans do things toward African Americans that is foul too; and, many don’t want to acknowledge this stuff in the same way that some U.S. blacks don’t want to acknowledge how they treat their continental cousins. Which ain’t surprising to me because some of us really act like we have to apologize for being African/Black American-forget African.Some Africans act as if it is beneath them to acknowledge their faults in reference to U.S. blacks and then get mad when U.S. Blacks don’t want to deal with them or hear what they got to say. None of this excuses us, but my point is that the complaints can go both ways. But regardless of much of that, in my post, I criticized all communities equally, not just immigrants, but the fact that you focus on what solely black natives do to black immigrants is interesting. I see faults in all of our groups personally.Where do I begin? Somalis are partly resented because they are immigrants in a country that is uncomfortable with them, African in a country that despises all things African and black, and confident in a country that expects blacks to hold their heads down and stay in their place but that ain’t all of it. Some of y’all have superiority complexes because y’all were able to retain more of your indigenous African culture unlike your U.S. cousins. Some of y’all are arrogant towards U.S. blacks and not this way toward anybody else! Some of y’all complain about how African Americans stereotype y’all as uneducated,backwards, without culture and poverty stricken because of miseducation and the media but y’all judge African Americans the same way for the same reasons. To say that there are no U.S. ghettos with some crazy residents would be a lie but Somalia has noticeable poverty and pirates(now my understanding is that the pirates came about to curtail the dumping some European/Asian countries do to their water but the Crips came about to protect the local black community from area thugs the way the Panthers defended the community from crooked cops AND WE SEE HOW THAT TURNED OUT which is what could happen with the pirates if folks ain’t careful) with the social problems this bring. African Americans, on the other hand, are envied because they live in a land of wealth, shunned because of their status due to things that took place in the past, and are criticized by blacks from other places because those blacks probably feel like they are somewhat complicit in a few of the problems the community has but feel powerless to do anything to help the community. Some don’t have the wherewithal for many reasons, a serious one being they got problems of their own. But my dear African American brothers and sister, that ain’t all of it either. Pointblank, our self-hatred of ourselves makes it possible for all intensive purposes to not only leave us open before our enemies-but to contribute “ourselves” to the genocide that other folks throw our way PARTLY through our own DUMB self-destructive choices, actions and trends like black-on-black crime and enough drug use at times-not in everything but alot. Too many of us also have a superiority complex when it comes to Africans that we sometimes don’t have with other people because until recently-we lived in a land of wealth and advanced technology. Some of our issues with Africans we got too are because some of us have a feeling that we are not of much use to Africans because we do very little to assist them in the ways we could like investing money or whatever. We don’t help largely because we got problems of our own too,just like them, but we are apathetic too-for two reasons. One, we feel like it is little we can do to change our plight, let alone theirs;and two, since we are relatively comfortable in comparison to not only Africans, but past Black American generations we are complacent. As for Caribbean Islanders, they got stereotypes of US Blacks and we have stereotypes of them too. Africans got stereotypes of Caribbean Islanders and Caribbean Islanders got stereotypes of Africans. Either way,none of us are where we need to be. All of us are misinformed about each other because of impressions we get of each other from education and the media. We make it worse when we treat each other like dirt too. We also disregard each other because we want the approval of others who are not thinking about us and we want to gain social mobility- alot of this our problem!We got so many outside obstacles from other groups and poor circumstances, but we make it that much easier for folks to mess over us when we do dumb stuff. All of us.We all got issues and we can use Moses,Jesus, and Mohammed!
Anyway,unknown, please spare me since the craptastic behavior of Somali warlords leave “much” to be desired. I’m am sure it is some serious social/economic political issues behind the strife so it ain’t all warfare and violence but come on! At least some of this is “skinny crappery” the same way alot of black-on-black is pure “nigger coonery”; and if this is NOT the case HERE, the social problems that stem from KHAT SELLING and KHAT USE is ignorant and counterproductive. My point being is that if I went to Somalia now, I can bet good money that I would run across some seriously “fucked” Somalis and some needless violent incidents/social problems. I know that Africa has a rising middle class, industrious working poor folks,hardworking law abiding citizens, and vibrant cultures so I would keep this in mind there. But I am saying that the same way I should not base all Somalis on warlords that LIVE FOR STRIFE, don’t base all African Americans on African American criminals.
This whole tension people seem to be speaking off is far from the truth.First Most Somali live in states where AA are not found in abundance such as the south, the exception being Columbus Ohio and even there the city of Columbus has a less AA population than say Cleveland. Second most of the States Somali Live have very little Muslim AA and since we view brotherhood on the basis of religion and not color, there is nothing we have in common with non Muslim AA. They are treated like all other Non Muslims in our eyes. The problem comes from the likes of Tariq Nelson and other AA muslims who speak of Race and Color every single day. Some in here need to realize our View of the world is different and we will never feel obliged to have an allegiance with someone based on the color. AA Muslims need to leave that package when coming into our communities because we will not tolerate it. I have met many Muslim who somehow feel that i will tolerate when they start belittling Pakistanis or Arabs and are shocked when i stand up for them and all they say is why you care? Some bloggers need to come out of the Closet and just a admit that, they are Racist. Ironic that AA Muslims seem to be having Problems with Somali’s or Sudanese Muslims only and they get along with Nigerian and other west African Countries? Reality is you people hate Arabs and since you consider us and the Sudanese as some kind of half breed, we are also targeted.
Truthfully, Muslim or not, this board is talking about tension between two ethnic groups. I agree that alot of immigrants for the most part live in the Northeast,Midwest, and Southwest, but the South is seeing more and more immigrants from various places. It is not as homogenous as it used to be. As for Tariq Nelson and other African Americans being the problem, they are no more the problem than others. It takes two sides to have a disagreement and to be honest, I am not all that sure that Somalis are above colorism/racism anymore than the African Americans they criticize and I only say this because this point was brought up. I am all too aware that Somalis view the world different from African Americans, this is what it is, but since this is post about the tensions between the two groups-why not throw out factors that contribute to this from all sides. I have on occassions run across immigrants from various places treating African Americans with condescention yet proclaiming they are colorblind. What gives? I still stand by my criticism of all three groups-they all do shady stuff- and if that makes me racist so be it; and as for Arabs-personally they are no better or worse than any of the groups mentioned but in light of the fact that I criticize roughly equal three black groups, I fail to see why they were brought up.This goes for Pakistanis,Sudanese, and Nigerians for that matter. I’m sure there is tension between Arabs/Blacks but there are other posts for them. This one is talking about U.S. blacks and Somalis. Oh, yeah, and about me being racist, I probably am, for better or worse, I live in a racist society and world, perhaps some of it has rubbed off.
I will say this though, Soundmind-I may have had some things to say about your post-but I was responding to various statements I have read. Not just yours.
Yes there are Problems but i also think some are taking it way out of proportion. This is evident in almost all Blogs by AA Muslims. They seem to bring up color and racism in every single issue. Who cares what others think of Someone. Everyone should just live their life and ignore the fw who are corrupted but to Target us in every single blog is getting old. I had more Respect for AA Muslims before i ran into these blogs and others such as Jamerican Muslimah but now my whole View has changed. I had no idea people viewed us as such and obviously i have become more defensive now. We understand your history of Slavery and Racism and commend you for all your fights. I dont know about Immigrants moving to the south but iam speaking of Somalis. Most of them would rather live in North Dakota than GA.
To be honest, I do not read alot of AA Muslims or Muslim sites for that matter specifically. I was just “stating my very humble opinion.” I only stated my POV from some of the vibes I have gotten from certain Somalis I have run into. It is apparent from the statements of some posters that they haven’t always had good experiences with African Americans either.Which may explain their hostility like bad encounters with Somalis explain ours. But stuff being the way it is with misinformation and competition for jobs, I am not surprise. In this country anyway, I notice a native/immigrant divide among all racial ethnic groups so this does not surprise me. Like I said before it goes both ways. As for color and racism being brought up, alot of time this is brought up because incidents bring this up for them. Sometimes it is overdone, but alot of these issues come up after several incidences. But my question is why do non-African Americans display anti-black Americans condescension,proclaim colorblindness when the issue is not brought up, and then criticize us for focusing on color? Not to say we are above stereotypes or whatever when it comes to others. I just wonder.In this case, Tariq Nelson-an African American Muslim-did bring this up but the scenario I was talking about before this happens.
These animals are good for nothing. Someone should get them back as being slaves again…that’s what they good for..
Were this to happen you stand a chance of going to the field with the African Americans you despise so much; and considering that one of the 9/11 terrorists was a Somali-some folks escaped the internment camps they had for Arabs by the thread of a needle! I got issues with some of the more arrogant Somalis but I do not wish poverty and warfare on em,sheesh!Damn!
Seriously, I do apologize on behalf of some terrible encounters you have had with us though. Some of us do need to do some things betta. I do wish more of us knew more about Africa and stuff. But you sound like the folks that did the tsunami song, ignorant! Here you got some stupid black folks mocking the victims of a storm that killed 180,000 people.What were they thinking!Same with your comment
BTW, in my second paragraph of my second post-I was talking to Soundmind. Man, I had a typo.
To be honest,as a bantu man,somalis are starting to get to my nerves.These low-life halfbreeds have made their business to sing the bantu word all over the world as if bantus are responsibles of thei demise.Somalis are treated like shits in all arabs countries yet they keep on sucking arabs cocks.Bantus welcome somalis in their countries but somalis spend their time insulting bantus.Thanks gods bantus are starting to make them pay dearly as it is the case in south africa.AAs ancestors built usa therefore AAs have every right to be there.What rights have somalis on usa?In uk ,somalis are the biggest parasites of any immigrant community:they are the last at school,they dont work bu they are the biggest users of welfare services(free food vouchers,free supported accomodation…..).Somalis would be well-advised to mind their own business and leave bantus alone for their own sake coz if they carry on like this they are walking into deadly territories and they will regret it
Your another delusional who thinks we will hate on another Muslim based on color or ethnicity. An Arab and Bantu Muslims are both respected by us and care to tell us how you figured Somalis are treated bad by Arabs. Ironic that Most Arabs consider us Arab even though we reject that notion and you just proved by point, just because we dont have the so called Negriod features we are somehow half breed. Leave Bantu alone? Last i checked we have Bantu Somali and those are the only one we would associate ourselves with. Keep spreading your lies and we are attacked in South Africa not because of color but because we are a Business minded people who outsmarted the locals.
Marwa
It had nothing to do with outsmarting the locals, but because SA didnt give the local people opportunities or education to own businesses, you are talking about locals who are the bottom of society and of course they are going to be resentful to immigrants, not just Somalians as we have seen from the recent attacks on Zimbabweans.
Laila
So whose fault is it that SA didnt help the Locals. They should have been happy because the Indians were charging them a substantial amount of money for most things and we came and gave them competition and basically because of the US the prices went down. They Targeted us because first most Africans dont view us as real Africans but as some sort of Half breed Arabs and because of our religion and people wonder why we like to distance ourselves from the rest of the continent. Same thing in Kenya we are the Largest Business owners.
What businesses somalis own?All somalis I see in uk here are benefits scroogers who live on free food vouchers and supported hostels.Somalis are the most despised group of immigrants in UK.They are lazy,dirty,stupids…..In south africa somalis live mostly in townships as illegal immigrants.The africans who own the biggest businesses in SA are nigerians and congoleses(Mwana africa PLC,……………).In uk,the most succesful africans are nigerians.Somalis are noticeable only in charity shops,welfare offices…….In dubai,koweit ,somalis women and men are the cheapest prostitutes you can get.Arabs have the utmost contempt for somalis and they accuse them of bringing AIDS,tuberculosis…..to arabs countries.I think somalis are just pathetic halfbreeds who want cheap fame on bantus name.We dont care for you !Just get you fuckin halfbreeds broken arse out of bantus countries.The tanzanian governement has already granted lands ,money and citizenship to any bantu somalis who want to settle there.And sooner or later we will take all our people out of somalis and we expect ALL somalis to get out of ALL bantus countries(Kenya,uganda,tanzania…………….south africa).You havent seen anything yet!
Bantuman
You need some serious help. Are you sure your not a Bantu Somali.hahaha Iam sorry for what happened to your ancestors but dont blame us. we didnt enslave you.
@ Marwa
This has developed into a useless fadhi ku dirir (you know what I mean).
This discussion has been fruitful but it’s going down the lines of:
Issgaa ugu dhufatay markii hore.
Iyadaa ugu dhufatay markii hore.
Anigu ma jecli isaga.
Anigu ma jecli iyada.
Isagu ima jecla.
Now the debate is played out into a king of he said, she said (take the following)- Kuwani waa xoogaa jawaabo ah:
Allah says: “And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say: We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant.” [Sûrah al-Qasas: 55]
He says: “And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, ‘Peace!’ ” [Sûrah al-Furqân: 63]
This post has been up for almost a year- Inshallah some good will arise from my own contributions in the future and perhaps in the long run greater understanding, tolerance and resonance might develop between communities.
UK Brother!
Sorry ,I am not a somali bantu!I am a bantu and generally I dont waste my time with low-life halfbreeds like you guys.But if somalis have made their business spreading the name “BANTU” all over the world(Thanks for the free publicity!),I have to stand for my people.Right now “somalia”,if it does exist,is a waste land ravaged by yemenites,chechens,……islamists and millions of somalis are seeking refuge in bantus states(Kenya,uganda……….).That should be your main concern instead of going from topic to topic insulting bantus.Bantus are fine!We rule the best countries in africa from south africa (GDP=500 billions),nigeria (GDP=300 billions) angola(GDP=106 billions),kenya(GDP=60 billionss)……..Somalia has the lowest GDP of any country in africa and if you are smart as you
should go back to your shithole and clean it up.Kenya was created by bantus while your ancestors were still nomadic desert dwellers fighting each other over camels,goats,water wells,…….and it is still going on!
Marwa
It is not about whose fault it is, you are comparing two groups that are not on an equal footing. Why did the South Africans attacked other Southern Africans recently? Do they have Arab in them as well or follow a different religion? Many Somalis look no different to other SA’s, when i see a somali man i see an African man, not half breed arab.
I am not sure it is a good thing by distancing yourself from the continent that you belong to. You should be proud of where you come from unless you think you should be in another continent. Africa is not a homogenous continent, drop the us v them mentality.
When your house is not tidy and in good order,you dont go around giving lessons to other people on how to clean up their houses.Charity starts at home!That is what somalis cant grasp!I live in UK and I dont give lessons to english people on how they should run their countries or their lives.Somalis like to make a cow out of a rat:When they achieve some tiny succes,they start trompeting their “smartness” all over the place coz they arent used to be succesful.We bantus are the most succesful group in africa and we keep quiet.You are in USA,you should go in houston,texas ,and check for CAMAC INTERNATIONAL,a business set up by a bantuman and come tell me if there a single somali in the world who has set up such a large corporation.You can google it as well.
Salaama Alaykum,
It truly is amazing how much the AA men and women are willing to hate Somali people. And that Bantu likes to think s/he is Somali.
Let us set the record for those of you AA men and women, muslim and non muslims, bantus and all other blacks whether they be from Africa, Caribean, or from the jungle living with Chimpanzees;
1) We are Somalis.
2) Bantus are not Somalis.
3) Bantus were slaves brought and purchased from west africa to Somalia just like the blacks are brought to Norht America.
4) just like AA people, any where in this world, it be America, Canada or Europe, Bantus struggle with identity, and often are unable to accept the facts that history has in store for them. As a result, they hate Somalis as their oppressors as much as black person hates white person.
5) As far as other black people are concerned; AA men and Women that is, you hate Somalis for the same reason you hate everybody else on earth. You know it. You hate everything on this planet including yourself, yet you do nothing to make your life better even after 500 years. Let alone making favorable conditions for your offsprings, you are busy wearing wigs, nails, and what have you. More over, black man is busy making his trip to prisons accross the nation.
6) You often try to mask your hatered by stating that Somalis are not blacks or Somalis do not like blacks. We are not black and there is nothing, not even as small as the atom size thing to like about blacks, your self hatered is destruction to the nation. If you want us to like you, first you start liking yourself.
7) Let me take this opportunity to set this straight, Somalis are not black Period. Somalia is located in horn of Africa yet its people are not black.
9) Do so called “African” Americans think they own America? and for this reason Somalis should paw upon seeing negros? This will not happen, however, if the negros think Somalis should submit just because they have been in America before their arrival, then act like it. Did you get it? I did not think so. Let me help you with this one too, STOP selling drugs, doing crimes, venting your anger by stealing and damaging other people’s property, making bastards only to fill in the prisons…even if you do this Somalis will not submit to you but you may earn some respect.
10) How about bantus? do you think you are mistreated by Somalis just because of your looks and therefore, Somalis do not beleive that you are Somali? Well, for starters, Bantus are not Somalis. As I said it earlier, they were slaves. And if Bantus have a problem accepting thier history, then, they should go to Darfur, Sudan. And, there you shall find yourself in slavery, this will help you live with your life without any denial.
Good Luck.
To the bantuman,
really? bantu’s got business! are you sure about this? it is not fraud? just to steal from others? I mean you know how black man like to brag about they own business or something only to find himself in jail?
bantuman, you can hold on to your claim about how Somalia is a shithole but hey we do not steal just like you do. Also, you can state million times how Somlis are “smart ass” but the facts remain facts; in that, you are bitter because you were a slave. And yes we are smart, we come to America, Canada, Europe without much yet we make much more than you make from stealing and forgery and while you and your brother in North America and elsewhere are living in the ghettossss.
TO the bantuman:
One more thing since you talk about ones backyard and telling Somalis to clean it up, how about your own backyard?
Did it ever occur to you that you have one on your own? I don’t think so, because, just like your brother Ron you live in LaLaland.
Back to the backyard topic! how about you clean up yours before you point your sticky fingers to Somalis? I mean look at Uganda. Are those not your brothers? What about South Africa? and Mabuto in Zimbabwe blaming white wealthy people that run his country, in which without them (the white people) there is no bread? Does he hate them? YES. Why? for the same reason that you and blacks in America hate anyone who outperforms you economically, morally, color, religion etc.
Most certainly you like to complain and point your fingers but never bother looking at yourself for once do you?
In America you and your brother, black American or African American whatevery they like to call themselves, always blamed white man to enslave you, hispanics for taking “your jobs” and now Somalis? have you ever considered even bothering to try to find cure for AIDS in Uganda and in South Africa? Those are your people, are they not? OK I get it. You do not have the intellectual capacity to do so, then stop spreading it and stop living like chimpanzees.
In Canada, your men are going to jail for murder charges as usual but not the regular murder. Must you know? Sure, black men were brought as slaves initially, then they brought Malaria among many other diseases with them in North America, but now black men come from thier own dark continent with AIDS to spread. How do they do it, they rape white women. And how does white man handle you? of course incarcerate you for the rest of your life. And how do you respond? play your usual card “RACE”. It was actually smart idea when white men, many years ago, castrated you. Would you rather be castrated than be put to jail for the rest of your life? Do tell.
In Somalia, we restrained you with religion. Regrettably, that does not appear to be working in North America. However, there is the judicial system which is why you and your brothers always say the police is out to get you. Enjoy.
PS,
I’m defintely not an apologist for black ghetto kaafir culture–or the Muslims who are fond of it–but your statements are a bit over the top. You, also, need to be careful of what you say, for there are some good African-American Muslims. As for Somalis, they are indubitably “black”–they are blacker than most African-Americans. Any peek at a mirror will demonstrate that for you.
I am curious as to why some Somalis have such a seething hatred for other black people? This seems to be caused by some sort of self-hatrd akin to what you have (rightfully) accused many African-Americans of. I can understanding hating a group of people for their kufr and collective sinful behavior, but this seems to be more than that. I think it needs to be discussed–and not in a hostile fashion.
I agree with you that the NAPS (Negro American Pagans) are JACKED UP. And i believe virtually everyone is tired of their begging and complaining (and their lewdness, criminality, and irrationally violent behavior). The answer here, as you said, is to tame these savages with Islam. But that means for the Muslims–African/African-American Muslims (i’m talking about black folk)–to strive to put these petty ethnic squabbles aside and unite in obedience to Allah. Afterall, Somalia is in the current mess its in because of its tribalism and lack adherence to what Allah has Ordered.
Lastly, your or my ethnicity isn’t going to be to our benefit (detriment) when we are sat up and questioned in the grave. Creed and deeds is the ultimate distinguishing factor between human beings. Among the best of the deeds is calling people to Islam, and we can do that a lot more effectively if we are united in obedience to Allah.
With Allah is the success.
BTW, I forgot to add a few things but what do expect since after all, I confess that I am simply an inferior U.S. black Bantu!
After, You have also invested your precious time-time you didn’t have to-to enlighten me and inform me that in the worldview of some Somali that U.S. Blacks and continental Blacks are not worth two pennies rubbed together because they are not worth the human waste pit on discarded flushed toilet paper! I just wanted to add, that I got the message and meant to put type after the statements that I got “that we ain’t shit no matter what we do!”
On to the next response, instead of Just a little observation-but don’t let this one stop the show! It should read “Just a little observation-but don’t let this one MONKEY stop the show! “Pun-or not-intended”!!!! It is for you to decide! My sincerest regards! Swarthmoor, some of observations made in reference to Somalis can very well be made of Berbers to a greater or lesser degree- if not a few more- but I ain’t gon’ even deal in depth with your commentary or Berbers! If nothing else, you had the courage to grudgingly confess that not all African Americans fulfill the negative stereotypes put upon them by others!Kudos to that if nothing else!Henceforth, I offer some advice-albeit infidel Christian advice- with the best/noblest intentions!It is this- in response and reference to African Americans being kufr and collectively sinful, I offer these Christian sayings paraphrased, Let he(or any group) without sin cast the first stone or why is it that you see the beam in your brothers eye and not the one in your own!
BTW Swarthmoor, I meant to say, some of THE observations made in reference to Somalis can very well be made of SOME Berbers-SOME-to a greater or lesser degree!
Unknown,
We observe certain prevailing behaviors in certain ethnic groups. No one (of any sense) thinks that simply because a person is of a given ethnic group that he MUST behave according to that stereotype. Nonetheless, when we look at black (American) culture, we see certain prevailing pathologies/dysfunctionalities. Not only that, these NAPs (Negro American Pagans) have NORMALIZED THEIR PATHOLOGIES–and even made them “trendy.”
Simply because 70% of African-American children born are illegitimate does not mean that every African-American child is a bastard. Although black male teens and adults make up less than 5% of the population but commit more than 40% of the murders doesn’t mean that all black males are murderers–or even that most are murderers, for that matter. Now, you have the NAP males running around cramming their jimmies in the rectums of other negro males. We can go down the stats of female run households, the black males in the prisons, high school drop outs, not in college (or even into learning) to demonstrate that those things are a lost cause.
The real danger of NAP (Negro American Pagan) “culture” is that it is rapidly DEGENERATING and by way of the media (and those who control it), the cess pool of NAP culture is being promoted and normalized. The NAPS are thru, for they HAVE NO MORAL BASIS for reform (shoot many of them don’t even believe in the notion of morality), so they can’t possbily fix their problems (even if they sincerely wanted to). You can’t have Half-a-Buck and the other knuckle dragging NAPS as national icons and think that the “culture” can be salvaged… unless, the folks get serious about Islam.
LAstly, as for the negro church: the Christians lost the culture war A LONG TIME AGO–like when the negro Christians stopped speaking out about people fornicating and living in sin. Now the churches are run by the women–while the men (or males) fill up prisons–oh, the other “males” in the church are the rectum rammed choir guys. The churches are empty in Europe–and there’s a reason for that: the Europeans know Christianity is a fraud.
Considering that you come from a part of the world the West(albeit erroneously) considers a cesspool, you have only so much room to talk about the prevailing pathologies/dysfunctionalities of other groups. I will not expend time going on about the questionable stats in reference to your group for the simple fact that the part of the world that you come from appears to be so hard up, stats about pathologies and dysfunction are not even considered necessary. Feel free to go up and down the stats all you want because when it is all said and done, keeping track of the stats on African Americans is not solving your own communities problems. The fact that you were born here and not there be-speaks the troubles prevailing in the country you hail from. It is fair to say that many Berbers may very well be successful stateside, but just because that is the case here, there is no guarantee that is the case elsewhere. As for Islam being the salvation of African Americans, where is the guarantee that this is the case when this is not the case in the places where Islam is currently practiced. Not to say that Islam is a bad religion in every respect-it is a beautiful one in many respects and has alot going for it-but to say that it is a panacea may be a stretch. Especially when certain types of Islam seems to have similar problems and flaws as certain types of Judaism and Christianity.
Lastly, I would like to say in reference to the Black church, for all its pitfalls-it has had enough strength to survive and thrive. It is still here right alongside the mosques because the community consists of alot of Christians so it is doing some things right. Not to say there is not a place for Islam. There may very well be. But having even less positions of women in places of influence and less tolerance of “certain types of males in the mosque” pay prove to be a factor in halting the spread of Islam. It may be a reason for calls for change amongst certain Muslims in certain countries. Who knows!
SW
Aha’ my comments over the top!!!! I expected you to stick your nose where it doesn’t belong; perhaps, you have your own agenda, no? Somalis are “black” you said. Not only that but it is also that you are curios about Somalis having “seething hatred for other black people”! Honey, are you high on some drugs? Delusional? or simply a mental health client?
OK then, you must be the black wanna be Muslim. Here is the thing, blacks claim Muslims due to their identity crisis. You know what I mean, don’t you? For example, They name themselves Muslim names, wear hijab just to cover their hair since they hate their looks, believing that is cheaper than purchasing wigs, and only to escape their race. IF that is not accurate, then, which Islam religion orders them to practice racism? I doubted that there is any religion in this world that even encourages any act of racism.
You read many posts and have been posting for some time now, haven’t you? if anything, you would pick on the aching hatred towards Somalis by these racists and condemn it. But this is not on your to do list? I guess you just cannot since you are among them. BUT since you seem to have affinity for them, go ahead say as much as you can, and, justify all the things that have been said about Somalis and suggest that is not racism.
By the way, as you know, the truth bites; these creatures hate everybody on this planet including themselves. You cannot change that by writing what you are writing. And if my comments are over the top, most certainly, they are only the truth. Indeed, my comments are not a racist as those that are made about Somalis. So, sit back and enjoy reading about the truth.
AND call them to Islam.
* SW error! rather SM
SM
When these creatures hate everyone on this planet, for example, initially it was the whiteman, then, the hispanic who they accused of taking over “their jobs” and now Somalis for just even being on earth Period. Please tell me, that Somalis are racists for telling these animals off. Can you?
If anything, they should shut up and drink thier faces off and those who cling to islam just face the facts; in that, they cannot wear hijab and name themselves muslim names while practising racism.
Lastly, but not the least, Somalia is not immune to the problems this world has; in that,there is a civil war as many other countries in this world at the present time. And, in the past there was civil war in many of tdoay’s developed countries including the US itself. However, the fact of the matter is that everybody falls and what is important is that whether one chooses to get up again or how they do that (which of course is nobody’s business). Now, just because Somalia is one of those countries in its time for its share of problems in this world, this does not mean that we will tolerated for any wrongful activity by these black animals. We will not allow by any chance for these thugs (blacks) to walk all over us Period whether they are muslims or not, or whether they were in America before us (which is a myth they chose to believe) we will not accept thier irrational tone of voice full of hatred, constant attacks, thier hopes to classify us in to certain ethnic groups, (needless to say who are they to determine or even question about our ethnicity, culture and background?) and when they are told that is not any of their business unleash thier repressed hatred for more than 400 years. What you see is happening is this; Black people, were oppressed. Now they want to oppress others. Who are these others? anyone who they believe is vulnerable, for example, those people who are refugees, fled thier homeland , those who have families scattered different states and provinces within the same countries and in different parts of this world, those people who do not know even after 20 years whether some of thier loved ones are still alive, those who left behind everything they had, those who walk down the street and feel alliented because there is no place like home. These thugs (blacks) had over 400 years in the continent of North America to turn thier life around, yet they chose not to. Now they want someone to pay for thier laziness. This will not happen and if does Somalis will not be the ones to enable it.
@Pure Somali -
You are a tragic figure. I hate to even respond to your tirades but I will for amusement. When I need a taxi ride from the airport or I give a Somali a trip in the parking lot I remind myself to be extra generous.
I apologize that AA have not been so generous with you. I will make sure to tip a little extra the next time I need personal services from a Somali.
AA do not need Somalis and Somalis do not need AA so what is the big problem. You can live your wonderful prosperous life and we can live our downdtrodden kaafir life.
I wish your love for Allah (swt) would exceed your hatred for AA.
There is no love lost here and there is nothing you can say to make us feel that Somalis are superior to us.
If Somalia becomes a stable, secure, tolerant, and democratic society we may give you some props.
However, Somalia will be at war for years to come. Your hatred for AA is symptomatic of her clan hatred that has ruined your country and threatens its sovereignty.
I always support the invasion of Somalia unlike many other AA who should not hate.
SO HATE ME - I AM THE TYPE AA YOU SHOULD HATE.
PS,
Post #1
I am having a hard time understanding your rant. For one, i did’t become Muslim because i had a hard time with my looks. I know i ain’t the best looking guy around, but my looks had NOTHING to do with embracing Islam. I embraced Islam because of the BELIEF IN ONE PERFECT GOD.
(Regarding religions and racism, Judaism is an inherently racist religion, as is Hinduism-but that isn’t really relevant to the topic.)
My point was not to attack Somalis. I’m balanced–i order al-ma`ruf and forbid al-munkar regardless of a person’s race. And i am not a negro nationalist. Personally, i don’t know many Somalis–unless you include Oromos and Hararis. I taught some Somali kids a few years back–i have nothing bad to say about them. I have a good friend who has a Somali wife. She’s a cool Sister-i have no problem with her. What i know is that the Somalis are very ethnocentric people, but I have never had a bad encounter with Somalis–until i saw your (rabidly racist) post.
Now your post is over the top when you accuse–categorically–African-Americans as being jacked up dysfunctional pathological fools. There are some good African-American Muslims; certainly not as many as the number of good Muslims Somalia has produced thru the centuries, but nonetheless, there are some good AA Muslims, and you must be careful not to slander upright Muslims, for this is an enormity.
As far as black Americans hating Somalis, it wouldn’t surprise me. AA tend to be a petty and jealous people. I just personally don’t know many AA who have dealt with Somalis–but i do know that AA don’t get along well with each other, much less, other Africans. That all goes back to the NAP culture–the majority of AA aren’t Muslim, and they certainly don’t evaluate matters from the point of view of the Shar`. That is, in essence, why the NAPS are in the conditions they are are in.
PS
Second Rant Response
PS, i am a Muslim. I judge matters according to what Allah revealed. I categorically condemn NAP (Negro American Pagan)/thug/black ghetto kaafir culture. Those values conflict with the values of Islam. Period.
Now i understand why many AA Muslims feel the way they do. They are largely ignorant of the Deen, and they are still hung up on matters of their racial identity. You can tie that back to inferiority complexes, cowardice, a general state of laziness, a welfare/plantation mentality, etc. I am familiar with the causes of why AA don’t along with each other–or with Africans.
What i am trying to understand is why the Somalis–who are blacker than most African-Americans–have this twisted mind set that requires them to deny they are “black.” Now i can readily understand that Somalis wish to distance themselves from naked pagan savage Africans–or semi-naked pagan savage African-Americans–but that does not lighten the color of their skin tone. I’m “black”–certainly not as black as most Somalis, but i am “black.” Not proud of it–not ashamed of it–for i had nothing to do with it, and on the Judgment Day, my color won’t be in either one of the Scales.
It seems to me that at least some Somalis are having a hard time distinguishing between race/ethnicity and culture. There is the prevailing (and growing) gutter culture of black ghetto kaafir America. It’s a threat not only to African-American Muslims, but also African Muslims–afterall, we’ve all seen the jigged-out African coons, including, Somali youth (like the one’s i saw “hangin’” out in Columbus last year), who are imitating this black kaafir ghetto culture. Nonetheless, (Always the Moor) PS, it seems that the Somali hatred of black ghetto kaafirs–and AA Muslims still wraped up in that mind set–extends goes beyond their culture/behavior, but also to their physical features, such as, their hair texture, fullness of lips, and their nose breadth (the skin color thing doesn’t really work, for the Somalis are blacker than the “blacks”).
This is where matters get problematic Religiously. If someone thinks they are superior merely on the basis of their physical appearances, then they are going to face a rude awakening in the Hereafter. Afterall, Iblees comitted the first act of kufr because of his “pride of origin.” So i advise you, myself, the Somalis, and the African-American Muslims be careful of this “asabiyyah,” for it is a vile disease that rots out the hearts.
May Allah protect us.
TO The Neger called Ron!
Are you speaking of yourself when you say a “tragic figure” I bet you are.
What can you afford just for yourself? a public housing? and a beer?
just stop being burden to the society. Must I utter this one too? well stop making bastards and make sure those baby mamas get jobs for once. And stop yourself and your brothers being menace to the society. You know what this means, don’t you? If you don’t go take a look a hard look of your men in jail across the world. Then come back and say anything about any other ethnic group!
I am sure you like to live in LaLaland. But this won’t help you be anything.
SM
Here is what you don’t understand, somalis are not “black” Period.
Confused? No problem, let me try it again, Black is not an identifying factor for ones ethniciy, culture and background or even color for that matter. The key element here is that, Black = naked pagan savage Africans, and “semi”-naked pagan African Americans. Therefore, “black” is the umbrella for host of problems associated with these savages, for example, violence, crime, disrespect to others, identity crisis, thugs, laziness, selling drugs, using drugs, shooting, Pimp, prostitution, immorality, theft, shoplifting, murder, illegitimate children etc.
Does that make sense? You tell me if there is anything else you need to understand.
Also, when you say “Somalis are black or blacker than the blacks” are you sure that these people you know of are Somalis? and NOT bantus? IF no, I already addressed this issue in my previous posts.
Now, whether you like to write anything or call the truth a “(rabidly racist) post” let me utter it again, my post is not any racist Period. However, it is a fact well known to the world that when blacks are caught red handed, they start playing the race card. They have done it many times to get by and have been doing it for about the 400 years they have been around. So, in deciding what is racist or not, is up to those with the intellectual capacity and who are familiar with the clever tactics often attempted by these thugs/blacks/negros.
And one more fact, Blacks first came across the Islam religion in thier search of identity. It was not actually thier intent to convert but rather to escape from the harsh reality surrounding thier identity. During this time, blacks started naming themselves muslim names, and dressed like muslims. It was as if it would help them change thier identity. But then when that did not happen, the religion became a fashion for them. And this is the case to this day. And this is why you find a rapper and kaafir with muslim name, and his dog with the name Nasir, Rahman etc. Subhanalah.
@ PS -
Your a simpleton. By the way. Somalis are blacker than AA in skin tone. What Somalis are you talking about? Northern or Southern Somalis or Oromos?
Neger Ron!
1) It is You are or You’re and NOT your.
2) NOT as big simpleton as you!
3) when I asked you what you can afford just for yourself? a public housing? and a beer? I got you excited here, didn’t I?
4) well that is too bad, because this sums it up about your ability to even comprehend and interpret simple information; in that, what you did not get is that you actually did not purchase it, OK. So, when I ask you or someone asks you if you can afford it, don’t assume that they mean you paid for it, instead what is meant is that the beer was afforded by the neger’s “ability” to shoplift.
5) with regards to your obsession of Somalis being “blacker” than AA, please scroll up and see if you can get yourself to analyze simple information presented to you. There is no reason in being lazy when it comes to synthesizing simplest information. So, go ahead and try it for once.
Good Luck.
@ Pure Somali
You need to learn basic grammar and usage. I barely can understand what your saying.
Let me help you out though. The proper spelling is not “Neger” its “Nigger.” If you want to use ebonics or hood language its “Nigga.”
I make more money in one month than you make annually.
I do not think your even Somali. Your probably from Puntland or Somaliland or something. I can tell your nomadic by your disposition.
Go wander the desert somewhere in the highlands and have fun with your goats.
Go spend your little money on some khat.
Neger Ron!
LOL!
Have you finished your grade 12 at least? Your blacks drop out of school, shall I say Grade 3? may be grade 2?
When one wakes you up from your deep sleep in LaLaland, it is either a Tirade, a white nationalism, a simpleton, and now a nomad? heheheheh
Are you drunk as the usual black man or high on crack?
whatever it is, can you take your “money” and help your people in the ghetto? And, of course in prisons across the country?
And, with your “intelligence” can you bother finding a cure for AIDS since it is killing your brothers in Uganda? and in South Africa? Well, may be you can’t, lol.
How about educating them since you seem to have up to grade 3? and teach them to stop living like chimpanzees? hahaha
Come on, try it. You don’t have to be so lazy for over 400 years.
Good Luck!
@ Pure Somali
Okay - you win. We AA are uneducated, drug using, aids-infected, lazy, chimps who do not deserve to live.
You win.
Ron!
This is not about winning neither is it about you not deserving to live, OK. You Know it very well, I am hoping!
This is all about your hypocricy and your deep rooted hatred, repressed for over 400 years, towards anything that moves on this earth including yourselves.
You do not only hate everybody but you also paint Somalis along with everybody you think you can, including Chinese, with this black color , which you yourself rid off and refused to take it; If I may have to refresh your memory, it was not that long ago when you demanded to be called “not blacks” but rather “African Americans” how ungrateful to the land of opportunity, America, the land everybodyelse on earth dreamed of coming to live, America, a country where many lost thier lives in thier journey to come to live. How sad? And what is so shame about the country you lived in more than 400 years? what did Africa do for you? and What do you do for it, if anything? vast majority of your blacks never set foot in this Africa? and are even ashamed of it, if anything? Do you think naming yourself different will help you be a model American citizen? I wish to know.
But then you stand here today and demand Somalis take what you don’t take yourself specially when Somalis are Somalis and have a culture, and background far from that of your blacks. Forget it. That will not happen.
Besides, why does it come to you as a surprise that Somalis are not black but Somalis? Here is a thing you can try to dig if you can; For instance, there are as dark color people in East India, Sri Lanka, and in Egypt as those of you, yet these black colored East Indians, Sri Lankans, Egyptions are not necessarily blacks but are still Indians, Sri Lankans,Egyptions and never will be blacks. Likewise, Somalis have both dark and not dark and therefore, this does not mean they are blacks by any chance and we will never be blacks no matter how hard you try, needless to mention that black is a term used to identify and to represent black Americans, and not any other ethnic group.
But you have the Bantus who are not Somalis! just like you distanced yourself from your country America, so get along with them, at least.
Here is a small reading for you, if you can, it will shed some light on some facts about your blacks, thier hatred, and bitterness for everyone on this planet.
http://blog.syracuse.com/metrovoices/2008/07/new_program_wants_to_build_bri.html
Good Luck.
@ Pure Somali
Sorry, but unfortunately this issue IS about winning and losing. In my judgement, people such as yourself have an intense desire to WIN the argument that Somalis are NOT black and are superior to Black people. Behind this desire is some sick and twisted Clan theory stuff that you want to export to the Western world. I have a strong desire to engage in a win or loss dialogue with you about this issue (to counter the exportation of that nonsense) but I won’t for Four reasons:
1) I’ve already covered it in my posts above.
2) You’re clearly ignorant and I would be going against the advice I gave to Marwa above (who genuinely seemed like a sincere individual)
3) This issue is going nowhere
4) Arguing whether Somalis are black or not is like arguing whether Ukranians are Europeans or not . Despite Ukranians having their own unique characteristics, history etc compared to other Europeans - the answer is obvious.
So Pure Somali, whether you want to win or not, yes you have won - because like Brother Ron, I’m out of this garbage discussion.
I had the misfortune of being around a lot of black American Muslims when I first converted to Islam. A lot of them dress like Muslims, but in their hearts they are still negro nationalist. In the last few decades they’ve had an extremely negative effect on the ummah with their ghetto culture. Now days you have loads of Arabs, Somalis, Turks, Pakis and other born Muslims acting just like ghetto niggers with their clothes, music, and political ideology. You have an entire generation of young Muslims especially in Europe and North America raised on nigger noise (hiphop music) and black American politics (blame whitey for everything). There are some good black American Muslim brothers out there though!
To UK brother,
GOOD FOR YOU. And keep out.
If one is ignorant just because they went against your advice, well, this is whole new rubbish..
But hey, it is good you are out because there is no need for more ignorants like you yourself are suggesting.
To be fair we shouldn’t use the Somali immigrants in the US, Canada, UK and other countries in the Western world to judge them as a people. The Somalis here in the West are opportunist, they came here for material gain, and not for DAWAH. They were brought here by the liberal-humanist Christian and Jewish charities. The real Somalis are in Somalia, not in Columbus or London collecting welfare and acting like a typical low IQ’ed lazy nigger, yep you heard it right. I consider a Somali who doesn’t take Islam serious to be nothing more than a typical nigger.
Cliff notes:
Somalis in Somalia are pious Muslims
Somalis in the West are opportunist niggers out for a free lunch.
He, who is a human being, and made of a sounding clay is not a judge of others’ fate. But only Allah is the judge, from the begining and in the end.
These “Liberal-humanist Christian and Jewish charities” do what Muslims do not do; in that, the Christian and Jewish charities assist victims of war and famine. These charities, evidently, took the initiative to clothe the naked, feed the hungry and shelter the homeless. These charities do, most certainly, have good deeds, a deed that is extinct in Islam, must I say?
Allah, made it clear to the muslim men and women what they must do when thier muslim brothers and sister are in crisis. Am I right? Do tell what muslims do for their brothers and sisters in crisis, in the parts of the world, where christians and jewish are feeding the starved muslim children.
Do name one muslim charity assisting the needy muslims that are affected by Jahiliya such as what is happening in Somalia and Sudan? if you cannot name one doing any work equivalent to that the chirstians and jewish are doing for these victims, then, how about naming any small muslim organization assisting in Burma? or Afghanistan? or even in the former (muslim) Yugoslavia? or in Kashmir? Can you name one muslim organization helping these wounded, muslim women and children effected by war?
What a shame? I suggest that you do not even attempt to attack the works done by Christians and Jewish. They have done what was required by your Muslims. (perhaps muslims are preoccupied in negro nationalism and Asabiyah) The islam has failed! muslim women and children all over the world. As a result, Christians and Jewish stepped in and did what they ‘wanted’ and felt they were obliged to do.
What is this religion that is never in motion? Did Allah not present the Qor’an as the instruction for all humans on this earth to live? When will this Islam and Qor’an come to work? to lend a hand in assisting with the crisis in Somalia, Sudan, Burma, Kashmir, Afghanistan? etc. Do tell.
Yes, Somalis receive assistance from these “non muslim” charities. But hey, these poor women and children are victimized by thier own religion and men leaders. However, these manufactured “opportunist” victims are required to find jobs after 3 months of thier arrival and do so to support themselves. Must I also mention that they are not the only muslims assisted by jews and christians? and are they the only ones recieving assistance?
Pure Somali, I concede you make a good point. I think a lot of Muslims are only “cultural” Muslims. Islam being the religion of their fathers and ancestors, it’s a nationalist thing. Muslims seem to pick and choose which cause they support. The Palestinians being one example who are heavily supported. I admit the Palestinians have it bad, but honestly Palestinians live a lot better then the poor in dozens and dozens of country. They are basically subsidized by loads of humanitarian organizations. While conflicts in Somalia and Chechnya for example get very little press. So you’re correct in saying they are occupied by things like “Negro nationalist,” which is clear as day if you read black American Muslim blogs. A black Muslim will support another black American regardless of what they do, no matter what religion they are. You have millions of them in the street jumping up and down when their boy Obama won the election. The funny thing is Obama has little connection to black America, his father was an African immigrant and his mother an American of European ancestry.
it is time for all bantu countries(kenya,uganda,tanzania..south africa……etc) to quick out all these arabs halfbreeds called somalis.They must treated like they are treated in yemen! In yemen,they are treated like the dogs they are.South africans are showing the way by burning them alive.Africa must be divided between true africans(bantus) and arabs and their bastards(somalisand ethiopians).These halfbreeds must be banned from all bantus countries
@bantuman -
I understand your frustration, but we cannot call for the wholesale murder of our own people. Remember Rwanda. We must find a way to embrace all people.
Pure Somali is an individual and not representative of all Somalis.
The best thing that people from bantu backgrounds can do is continue to farm and build up our families, communities, and nations.
If concentrate on divisions, we will squander these great opportunities. For example, sell oranges, bananas or other products to Somalis. Strengthen the terroritorial integrity of Kenya against Somali encroachment by eliminating tribalism and promoting stability.
We must establish strong merchant classes and manufacturing capacities.
We have to think long term. Lands where bantus live have the resources to make the lives of their people prosperous.
We cannot waste our time with ethnic chauvanism. However, we must educate our people about being exploited. It is easy to end exploitation. For example, the Saudis have Saudization programs. We must also have Africanization programs. South Africa and Botswana, Angola, Uganda, Ghana, Senegal, and Namibia are great examples of this forward and progressive thinking.
To be honest,I dont give a shit about somalis coz I have never seen the need to interact with them.I live in london and I dont know any nigerian,congolese,south african….who is intereted at mixing with somalis.That the way things should be anyway!So I dont understand why somalis think that they are so interesting?Somalia has a GDP of less than 5billions of dollars and that put it at the bottom of any country in africa.So what somalis have to brag about?The problem with somalis is that many of them have very low self esteem and they think that by running down bantus,they will feel better about themselves.They behave as if people want to mix with them.How many africans live in somalia?Do the right thing and get your fuckin broken arses out of bantus countries and we shall see how you gonna survive.
To the bantuman!
It sounds like you are in alot of pain. How about you consider some hair relaxing stuff, and some cosmetic surgery for your nose? This will most certainly enable you to talk like a person than animal.
By the way, scroll up and read posts addressed just to you!
Oh’ and one more thing, try to use your energy to save some bantu lives lost to AIDS in Uganda, and of course, in South Africa…lol
to Anthony
Absolutely, religion = politics; In that region of the world, the Palastenians have the attention of the media because of Israel. In Iran and Iraq as well, the media is prepared and willing to present a wealth of information about what is happening while Chechnya and Somalia are forbidden places for the media.
Unfortunetly, DAWAH, is not free in North America, that is why you have dozens of young born muslims acting like the ghetto niggers. In Canada, for example, the muslim families pay a fortune for thier children to go to Islamic school. And, to learn even the Quran, fees must be paid. These fees have become a burden for many muslim refugee families with many children, who truly need the Islamic education. This is, perhaps, why many young muslims are lost in the nigger culture upon thier arrivals as young adults or teens. I guess the issue can be tackled if muslim communities are able to line up thier ducks; for instance, use some volunteers who do not depend on fees collected from struggling families so that DAWAH is spread etc.
For sure, black Americans like to fool themselves by making the assumption that Obama is black. I guess it is just another desperate move on their part.
Bantuman is bragging about how great it is in Bantu countries, but he continues to live in London, UK! I don’t blame him though, he might be a Bantu pygmy. A few weeks ago the savage nigger Bantu beast were raiding pygmy villages to rape (they were down low niggas) and cannibalize them in DR Congo. They think it brings them good fortune, and gives them “supernatural” powers. The top Bantu country of South Africa just released news that 1 out of 4 Bantu there has admitted to raping a female!
http://www.theage.com.au/world/congo-soldiers-raping-pygmies-for-supernatural-powers-20090509-aynl.html
Doont beat the hand that feed you!Think about rainy days!Who will bail you out?The difference between bantus and somalis is that somalis is a race of beggars and there are millions of somalis in bantus countries trying to scavenge a living.In south africa 99.9% of somalis live in township without legal papers.Nobody want them there yet they dont want to go back to their shithole “country”.I live in uk coz there are millions of whites living in bantus countries.How many americans,britishs,frenchs,….live in somalia?Do the right thing,go lick you dumbass somalis mums clitorisless stinky punanis to calm yourselves down.If that is not enough have anal sex with your mums coz that what somalis women enjoy themost
Bantuman claims the existence of “great bantu countries” while he is a refugee in a non bantu country, London, UK. Why is he not in those bantu “countries”? Because he will be slaughtered by his own bantu people; They will drink up his blood to have some “supernatural” powers; They also will cannibalize him and sacrifice his testicles. And, the women in his life; mother, or wife or sister, if there are any, will be raped right before his eyes. This is why he is in the UK hiding.
Now, does he have a huge chip on his shoulder? YES. What can he do to mitigate the barbarous acts committed by his brothers? Nothing but to sit here, unleash his helplessness, anger and hatred towards Somalis, Arabs, Ethiopians, or anything on earth including whiteman. -BUT he damn well knows not to start with Whiteman because bantuman knows that he will be castrated or put away in jail for the rest of his life.-
Let me do some background check! as you, “bantuman” recall, in Somalia, we taught you not to drink human or even animal blood. But you do not learn. Do you? We introduced you to Islam, but you chose your ancestral cannibalism traditions over Islam. However, when you were told -no you cannot do that in Islamic nation, Somalia-, you claimed to have been marginalized!
Well you have got a lot more stories to tell. Do tell.
By the way, you are actually the one biting the hand that fed him; proof, in Somalia, we did not only introduce you to a religion, Islam, and domesticated you, but we also allowed you to have equal opportunities, and gave you jobs so that you can make a living. But, you were never interested in doing anything of value or going to school. Your interests were only to live like an animal as well as Endocannibalism. Therefore, do not blame us just like the Niger American Pagans blame Whiteman, instead, try to enjoy. Because what you have today, are the seeds you sew yesterday. Enjoy!
And, remember it is never too late to learn! Start learning and practicing Islam and you may surprise yourself, stop cannibalism, and even AIDS in bantu countries. Hahahaha
@PureSomali
Can you tell us how have the Somalis benefited themselves in the past 100yrs and how have they benefited the world in the past 1000 years?
I wonder why some AA and other Africans always want to convince us Somali’s that we are Black. Who are you people to tell us who we are? We are Somali and dont give a toss about being Black or Black Solidarity and we see ourselves first as Muslim and Second Somali. A Somali can be the darkest person on this planet and yet we can still pick him or her out of all Africans. We just know who is Somali and who isnt.
As for Pure Somali walaalo if you are indeed Somali calling people Nigger Monkeys and all those names is unIslamic and you are making these people hate us more. We Must Love all Muslims regardless of where they come from and at the end of the day an AA Muslim is still our blood as much as an Arab or Chinese Muslim would. Offcourse culturally we are a worlds apart but what Unites us all Ummah is the holy Quraan. Finally my advice to AA Muslims is to forget about Color and Race because as Somali’s we do not care for it.
@ All Somalis -
I apologize for even considering you as a black people.
Somalis are not black or related to AA. If you say you are not black, I accept that.
We all have the right to choose our identity.
It does nothing for AA for Somalis to be considered black.
Again, Somalis are not black and are in no way related to AA.
Many AA do not consider Somalis to be black anyway, so you can now put me with that group.
Yo “pure somali”
Dont play reverse psychology!So far i havent met a single african who want to be associated with somalis.It is somalis who invad africans countries like kenya,uganda,south africa….etc ..to savenge food.Somalis are the most hated group of immigrants in uk coz they dirty,lazy and stupis.They spend their time sucking pakistanis and arabs cocks.I bet you are on welfare where you are and if you enjoy these benefits it is because blacks built america.Somalis are a curse for africa and if we can find a way of getting ride of them,africa will be a better place.Dont foul yourself:You are worthless!
Marwa,
You said that Somalis are the largest business owners in Kenya?
Hahaha.
Somalis RENT their properties from Bantu Kenyans.
Somalis all live in squalor in the Eastleigh section of Nairobi.
Kikuyus, Kalenjins, Luos, Kambas etc., that means REAL KENYANS control and own all the businesses and GDP in our country.
You’re right, Somalis are not Black. You are not African.
And yet, you run to find refuge, education, peace and prosperity in every black country but your own.
You fools actually believe that we should hate ourselves because you hate us?
Pathetic.
Bantuman,
Just listen to the rubbish these fools are telling you!
They actually think that because we are Black, we should be ‘ashamed’.
How can I be ashamed of my skin, or my hair, or my nose?
How can I be ashamed that God has blessed my country?
Maybe the reason Somalia is cursed by God and their children in America and Europe are being born with mental disabilities is because they are full of hate for the hand that feeds them.
Maybe that is why God has so obviously punished them.
Somali women in Kenya act in pornographic movies, they are the number one prostitutes in Nairobi and Mombasa…
Stop running to Kenya, Uganda, South Africa, Tanzania.
Stay in your bullet-riddled homeland.
Oh my bad, you can’t. Because there’s nothing there for you.
Bantuman,
You are very right.
The problem with Somalis is that they are looked down upon by Arabs. The same way they treat Africans is the same way they are treated by Arabs.
They hate the fact that Arabs (especially in Saudia, Yemen…) look down on them as trash and the only way they can feel better about themselves is projecting that hatred onto us.
And yet,
They are busy running to our countries.
God has really punished them. Look at their ‘country’. Look at the way their children are all being born with mental deficiencies…
You said it all!
But in the name of God,we africans have the duty to shelter and feed them.god himself knows how to deal with these ungrateful fouls.
@ Sal & bantuman
I’ve tried hard not to respond to your garbage but I can’t help responding. Please do not cite God Almighty in justifying venom and evil.
You guys are sad, hate filled and pathetic. Your obsession and targeting of Somalis is riddled with exagerrations and distortions. I really think that even if you don’t have some sort of inferiority or superiority complex - you clearly have a complex. You’re complex is that your driven by hate, anger and some form of resentment. Trust me, Somalis couldn’t care less about your opinions.
I ask for the sake of this excellent blog, that you guys keep your xenophobia somewhere else and don’t bring that trash to the West.
May Allah the seer and all knower guide and help you in your affairs.
I’VE been reading this arguament about somalis, i don’t know how many of you know but somalis are the first humans who ever walked on earth.every human white or black come from somalia and i’m not just saying this but every one who fallow the history of manking know and if want same more came to the home of early humans and talk to the people who live sanag,sool and hawd. whom are the closest humans to adam. somalis are your ancecters no matter where your or who you are . that corner of the horn of africa is where first humans live and still live and ive seen so many other see too.
UK BRother,
Give us a break.
What have Somalis brought to any country (in Africa or the West) that they have sought refuge in?
Answer: HATE
Somalis go seeking refuge in the UK and look down on Jamaicans and other Africans.
They go to Kenya - a country that has consistently hosted them and been kind and fair to them and what do Somalis give in turn? HATE.
A poster here called Marwa is so stupid, she went to the extent of saying that Somalis own the most businesses in Kenya.
How can a few thousand uneducated refugees own the bulk of business in a country that has been independent and sovereign since 1963 and whose GDP is one of the highest in Africa?
Somalis sell cell phones and microwaves in the market in Nairobi. Do they own farms, coffee plantations, tea plantations, factories, oil refineries, real estate and hotels in Nairobi, Eldoret Mombasa etc as indigenous educated Kenyans do?
Somalis moved to South Africa and took their hate there with them. But the Zulus and Xhosas were having none of it, which is why they went about burning Somalis alive and raping their women.
I am not saying it is right to kill Somalis. I abhor violence.
My point is this:
Somalis better stay in Somalia with your racist complexes and leave the rest of Africa to progress since you have proved time and again that you cannot even manage your own capital city Mogadishu and are busy fighting clan warfare since time immemorial.
We Black people are the ones progressing.
God has blessed our countries. God continues to bless and protect us.
And what about Somalia?
A cursed land.
Your children in Minnesotta and Finland and over the entire world are being born with mental disabilities.
Yes, ALLAH has CURSED YOU and all your future generations.
Your mentally disabled children will wander the streets and mental asylums while the rest of you grow old and disappear from the planet.
ALLAH has cursed you and now we just want you to get out of our Black countries and take your hatred and illnesses away with you.
How many Black people do you see running to live in Somalia?
I doubt there’s even one.
But tomorrow, hundreds of Somalis will be crossing African borders illegally in search of a better life in a Black country and the only thing they will bring with them in HATE.
ALLAH is the final judge.
And he has judged you completely and has dispensed his wrath upon you.
When thse fucked up somalis are given asylum in bantus countries,they get healthy and start dissing bantus.Check the video below and see how thye are treated in yemen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6OX2EVwI9k
One thing is for for sure.
I do despise jareers/niggers to the extent that I can’t share anything with them! ….this bloody parasites do smell that bad!
Lol and I can’t comment on the size of their noses.
But you share their countries,you somali parasite!.I better be niga than born autistic and physically disabled like 99% of somalis.
But you share their countries,you somali parasite!.I better be niga than born autistic and physically disabled like 99% of somalis.
I remember when I was young,our elders shot and killed jareers/negros/bantu for fun and I used to have pity for them.
But as I grew older and started living with negros in uganda!,I realised why our elders used to kill them!
This infested HIV parasites deserve nothing except a. Bullet in the head!
Ohh yeah,
We still do enslave you niggers.
I have never and will never share anything with a jareer/nigger…lol
I remember our maid who was a jareer/nigger had her own plate,cup and even bathroom/toilet!
Lol
Ohh yeah,and she used to sleep in the kitchen haha.
We piss on them even if we live in their countries!
They adore us lol.
This bloody bastards look like baboons!
They look upto us for mercy!
Miskin jareers
Death to jareers
You have to admit we are better than you negros in every department even if our country is war torn…looks……wealth…..knowledge everything!
Ohh and yeah!
We have the most beautiful girls you could ever fantasise of!
Manka,
And your Somali girls are busy making pornographic movies with Bantu men in Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda. The top selling porn movies.
We know you will be coming to our countries very soon looking for refugee status, when the UK, US, Finland, Canada get fed up of you.
And they have started already in Minnessotta.
Don’t worry, when your mentally disabled children are wandering the streets hungry, we will feed them. We will not send them back to Somalia because as you and I both know,
There is no more Somalia.
It is a cursed land full of ghosts.
ALLAH has flung your people across the entire world and has left you to be homeless wanderers.
ALLAH is the GREATEST JUDGE.
RUSSIAN CRUISE COMPANIES OFFER PIRATE HUNTING CRUISES
Submitted by C. S. Magor on Saturday, 27 June 2009
An Austrian newspaper has claimed that Russian cruise companies are offering wealthy passengers a chance to go pirate hunting off the Somali coast.
Wirtschafts Blatt has reported that wealthy tourists are hunting for pirates off the coast of Somalia for the cost of $5790 per day. In an effort to attract pirate attack, the ships are said to cruise deliberately close to the coast at a speed of only five knots. If attacked, passengers have the opportunity to unleash hell with rocket launchers, grenade launchers and machine guns.
AK-47 rental on the pirate cruises is apparently just $5 per day, with 100 rounds costing $12 and just in case things get out of control, a squad of ex special forces troops is on hand.
Russian yachtsman Vladimir Mironov is said to have remarked:
Manka,
You truly are the dumbest Somali ever.
You are so full of hate and yet, we all know that sooner or later, yourself or one of your relatives will need a home in a Black African country.
You and your fellow idiots don’t understand that Africa is changing, the old leaders are dying and the young people who really know how evil you are will soon be in the leadership positions.
How do you expect them to have any mercy for you when you come begging for a home?
Look at how the Zulus and Xhosas burnt your people alive and raped your women? Somalis are leaving South Africa in droves.
Where will you go when the governments in Tanzania, Uganda and Kenya change?
I’m so happy for the people of Somaliland who have a peaceful progressive country. ALLAH has truly blessed them.
But why has ALLAH cursed Somalia completely?
Sal,
Well you have got nothing to do with somalia,bastard!
Even tho you claim we are cursed,we are still far better than you AA bastards who have no homes!.
Lol
I suggest you work on your face before you comment on somalis
Sal,
Don’t worry nigger.
My hatred is not only towards you!
We do hate everyone except somalis
Viva somalia!
Sal,
Somali girls making porn with negros?
Since when?
Are you daydreaming dude?
Ohh and did you wotk on you smelly bodies?
Damn!
Actually I do live in Uganda and the only time I associate with negros is when I spit on their baboon noses!
This bastards with baboon faces and donkey dicks!
This guys ain’t better than animals.
That was prolly to why they were enslaved!.
There are Somali prostitutes out there. In my kafir days I used to monger (sex tourist), and I’ve “did it” with Somali girls when I was in Dubai, I know they are in Kenya too. I’ve never seen a Somali girl in a porn or dirty pictures with a Bantu (nigger beast) man, just white dudes (men of European descent, Brits, Belgians, Germans, white Americans [like me] , etc.), this is not to say it doesn’t happen.
I hate wiggers more then I hate niggers, because the nigger is acting normal, while the wigger is trying to be something he is not.
Lol
Of course we have prostitutes everywhere!
Surely you don’t expect a whole nation of somalis to be pure!
Do you?
Actually I do believe somali is a diff race!
We have got nothing to do with arabs,niggers or anyone else!
Viva somalia
As Salaamu ‘Alaikum
The owner of this blogsite really needs to CLOSE THIS DISCUSSION THREAD IMMEDIATELY. This has become nothing more than a hate spewing, racist ranting, orgy. It is totally non productive lacking any semblance of Islamic adab.
Jahiliyya at its worst.
Bantus fuck broken arses somalis women on basis in UK.Dem women with their pussies full of water are so lazy in bed that cant take of a man properly.On top of that,they are all broken and living off food vouchers.Who will go for a fucked somali when first class black,white and asian women with good education and good job are available.I live in UK and I have never seen a somali guy with a top woman.They are mostly gays who get fucked by arabs and pakistanis for a kfc meal.Bantus are famous in music,sport,business……..where are the somalis?Your jealousy is making you mads!Dont fool yourselves:Nobody wants to mix you!Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame on bantus name coz the word SOMALI is a curse.Unless you change,you will always be the LAST in africa>
anthony and manka are probably white racists trash
here to do what white racist trash do
is this white racist trash Anthony supposed to be Muslim?
ha ha
Ohhhhhhhhhh
Facts are facts.
Hey,I argue you to watch what we did to the somali bantus/jareers in youtube.
Lol
That makes my day
Watch Endless discrimnation on youtube.
You will come to your senses
Pls do watch that.