Time: There Will NEVER Be Peace
Time Magazine says that the long term for the Israeli Jews does not bode well. They must leave now, or face a genocide 50 years from now. As long as they think that they are owed that land from God, they will never leave. Some countries in the West should offer to take them in while they transfer the land (yes, all of it) to the Palestinians. In the meantime, Israel will try to buy time with the raids and kill hundreds of Palestinians and continue to inflame the survivors. The two sides absolutely can not live side by side…period
Just as ominous for many Israelis is a ticking demographic time bomb: the likelihood that Arabs will vastly outnumber Jews in the land stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean is a catastrophic prospect for a nation that defines itself by its faith. At some point, Israelis will have to choose between living with an independent Palestinian state or watching Jews become a minority in their own land.
As much as any other nation on earth, Israel is based on a dream: the aspiration to establish a home for the Jews in the birthplace of their ancestors
They need to drop this “chosen land” nonsense and leave. They are outnumbered and can’t possibly live in peace in that land. There will be peace only when they leave (or are wiped out).
Filed under: Bad Culture, The Culture of Denial and Pretense
as-salamu `alaykum,
Bro, there’s no need for them to be wiped out. The Jews, Muslims and Christians (and various other offshoots) lived in peace for 1000 years in Palestine.
What will happen is that the Israeli government will cease to exist, the Jews will remain, the majority will rule (Democracy), and all will be fine.
Yet, what we know from the Prophecies of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is that the Militant Zionists will regroup in a (at least partially) conquered Persia and launch their attacks upon a peaceful Palestine from there until the day Dajjal leads them to besiege Masjid al-Aqsa.
At that moment someone by the name of `Isa ibn Maryam (a.k.a. Jesus Christ, عليه السلام) appears amongst the besieged within the Masjid and tells them to open the doors.
Yet, the time between the Israeli government ceasing to exist and the appearance of the Anti-Christ could be 500 years or more. Peace in that time is possible.
In my opinion we need to follow Islam and its laws and behave in a way that will make our current adversaries not want to kill us when the dust has settled. That’s the first step. Behave Islamically and don’t terrorize people. That’s how Muslims conduct themselves in war.
Allah knows best.
Maybe we are reading two different articles. Where did the Time said that there never will be peace?
Anyway, the article is from MSM and by realistic Zionists (Klein) who prefer slow genocide eventhough they advocate the 67′ borders:
“A new Administration in Washington has a chance to be both supportive of Israel and honest with it. Over the past three years, many Israelis have told me that President George W. Bush was too good a friend of theirs. He gave Israelis all they wanted but didn’t rein them in when they needed it. Israel eventually will have to pull back to the 1967 borders and dismantle many of the settlements on the Palestinian side, no matter how loudly its ultra-religious parties protest. Only then will the Palestinians and the other Arab states agree to a durable peace. It’s as simple as that. But for 60 years, in the Holy Land, there has been a yawning gap between what was simple and what could be achieved. ”
And Tariq, maybe you should spend your energy to write letters to your congress representative to stop US military aid.
Here is a nice summary about Israel:
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/israel-defined/#comments
The regime is based on exclusion. Jews from anywhere in the world are permitted to immigrate to occupied Palestine, while Palestinians who fled or were driven from their homes in the now occupied territory are prohibited from returning. The Palestinians who remained in the territory seized by the regime, the so-called Arab Israelis, are treated as second class citizens.
Mixed couples cannot be buried together in a state-funded Jewish cemetery. Even more absurd, Israel is probably the only country in the world that does not recognize its own nationality. Israelis cannot be inscribed as Israelis in the state population register, but must be recorded according to their religious or ethnic origin. Every request by Israelis — Jewish and Arab — to be listed simply as Israeli has so far been rejected. The government argues that this would undermine the principle of Israel as a Jewish state. Meanwhile, ‘unrecognized’ Arab villages languish for decades without municipal services, while governments of both left and right have spent $15 billion on settlements beyond the 1967 border. (1)
Several right-wing rabbis have forbidden Jews from renting apartments to Arabs or giving them jobs. (2) Arabs inside Israel are denied security clearances, and, therefore, are denied the many jobs that require them. Compared to Jewish families, three times more Arab families live below the poverty line. According to polls, a majority of Israeli Jews favor expulsion of Arabs from occupied Palestine. [3] More than three-quarters say they wouldn’t live in the same neighborhood as Arabs. And three-quarters of Jewish youth describe Arabs as dirty. [4]
More important, however, than these day-to-day expressions of anti-Arab racism, is the racist character of Zionism itself - the idea that Palestine belongs to the Jews and not to the Arab majority that lived there, an idea which places one group of people, the Jews, above another, the Palestinians.
Colonial settler regime
Most of the Jews who lived on Palestinian territory before 1948 were recent settlers, having arrived after WWI. After hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from the territory under the regime’s control, these settlers, and those who came later, took over Palestinian homes and property.
InshaAllah I pray for peace. Jews can live together with Muslims, but Israeli Zionists can’t live together with Muslims.
Tariq,
Even the people who suffer the most, don’t call it a religious war.
Read Khalid Mish’al ( head of the Hamas) .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-hamas
I never called it a “religious war”. I said religion is the ROOT of the conflict not that it is a “religious war”.
I have to disagree. I can’t see them EVER EVER being able to live together. EVER. There will NEVER be peace there until one side (the Jews) are gone
Forget the time of the Prophet(pbuh), look at the beginning of 20′th century in Iraq, where an Iraqi Jew remembers his native country as the Eden: Leaving Paradise [London Review of Books]
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n21/shtz01_.html (and notice the Mossad’s mission to transfer all Iraqi Jews to Israel).
So, if it was possible to live peacefully in 20′th century, what prevents to happen again?
Not until Zionism is defeated like Apartheid South Africa, there will never be peace!
Br. Tariq: Just curious, but how do these two comments that you made make sense when placed side by side?:
“I sit firmly in the middle. I do not believe that Palestinians should be wiped out. But I also do not believe that Jews should be wiped out. This stance has gotten me into a lot of trouble with some people…but I don’t care”
And then you say in the very next post:
“They need to drop this “chosen land” nonsense and leave. They are outnumbered and can’t possibly live in peace in that land. There will be peace only when they [Jews] leave (or are wiped out).”
I could be reading this wrong but it sounds like two contradicting opinions.
I think we can all sit and guess as to what the future of Israel will be, but seeing that they have heavy nuclear capabilities….I don’t see them really going anywhere anytime soon (unless another country provides a challenge of equal fire power). The way I see it is that Jews will never just give up and walk away from this strip of land. They are tough people and have been dealing with survival since the diaspora….a couple thousand years experience under their belt. Especially after the Holocaust, they have a more fervent “do or die” mentality.
And I would be curious to read the emails that you received. Sorry you have to deal with that sort of thing. Especially the threats.
@ fairuza
I know that what I am suggesting (Jews leaving) will not happen. It is the most practical since the sides can not live together in peace. Otherwise there will continue to be war and people getting killed on both sides.
In the long term, they will probably get exterminated
But you don’t have sources that support your claim, Tariq. Even the above article from Time.
White supremacists in South Africa believed that they were chosen people, but they were defeated, so did Nazi German, and God Willing, so will Zionism.
@ gess
Yes, eventually the Jews will be forced out. But not in the foreseeable future. So if you look at it that way. Yes, the Jews will be defeated eventually.
Six in one hand. Half a dozen in the other. But the Jews will have to leave either way
I never said; Jews; but Zionists. Big difference. I don’t know what you want to achieve with your last two posts, because what ever you presented, your sources or arguments contradict .
With the Amrican economy in sink, let’s hope the Zionists will not flee to China.
all I’m doing is presenting my opinion. there is no insidious plot here. just my humble opinion
How to defeat Zionism by three simple steps! (and notice step nr. 3, Tariq)
1. Get rid of the illusion that Israel is “useful” to the West.
2. Allow non-Jews to speak their mind about Israel
One explanation offered for this special treatment is Western “guilt” for past anti-Semitic persecutions, in particular the horrors inflicted on Jews during the Second World War. It is sometimes pointed out that the Palestinians are in no way responsible for those horrors and should not have to pay the price for crimes committed by others. That is true, but what is almost never said and which is obvious nevertheless, is that the overwhelming majority of French people, Germans or Catholic priests today are just as innocent of what happened during the war as the Palestinians, for the simple reason that they were either born after the war or were children at the time. The notion of collective guilt was already very questionable in 1945, but the idea of transmitting that collective guilt to subsequent generations is quite simply a religious notion. Even if it is said that the Holocaust should not justify Israeli policy, it is striking that the populations who are supposed to feel guilty for what happened (the Germans, the French and the Catholics) are most reticent to speak out.
It is strange that at the very time the Catholic Church renounced the notion of Jews as the people who killed Christ, the notion of the almost universal guilt for killing the Jews began to take over. The discourse on universal guilt for the Holocaust is like religious discourse in general in the way it legitimizes hypocrisy, by shifting responsibility from the real to the imaginary (on the model of “original sin” itself). We are all supposed to feel guilty for crimes committed in the past about which, by definition, we can do nothing. But we need not feel guilty or responsible for crimes being committed right before our eyes by our Israeli or American allies, whom we can hope to influence.
The fact that we are not all guilty of the crimes of the Third Reich is simple and obvious, but needs to be driven home to allow non-Jews to speak up freely about Palestine. As it is, non-Jews who often feel they must leave it to Jews, as the only people who have the “right” to criticize Israel, to defend the Palestinians. But given the relationship of forces between the Jewish critics of Israel, and the influential Zionist organizations claiming to speak for the Jewish people, there is no realistic hope that Jewish voices alone can save the Palestinians.
However, the main reason for the silence is surely not guilt precisely because it is so artificial, but rather fear. Fear of “what will they think”, fear of slander and even of being taken to court for “anti-Semitism”. If you are not convinced, take a journalist, a politician or a publisher to some spot where nobody is listening and there is no hidden camera or microphone, and ask whether he or she says in public all he or she thinks of Israel in private. And if not, why? Fear of hurting the interests of capitalism? Fear of weakening American imperialism? Fear of interrupting oil deliveries? Or, on the contrary, fear of Zionist organizations and their relentless campaigns?
3. The practical initiatives are summed up in three letters : BDS- Boycott, disinvestment, sanctions
This tactic was used against apartheid in South Africa in a very similar situation. Both apartheid and the dispossession of the Palestinians are a late heritage of European colonialism, whose practitioners have a hard time realizing that such forms of domination are no longer acceptable to the world in general and even to public opinion in the West. The racist ideologies underlying both projects are an outrage to the majority of humanity and gives rise to endless hatreds and conflicts. One might even say that Israel is another South Africa, plus exploitation of “the Holocaust” as an excuse.
http://www.counterpunch.org/bricmont01082009.html
I think what Tariq is saying is that the modern state of Israel is not viable in the long-term and there are many Zionist Israelis who are pessimistic about the future. Tariq is not a Zionist and nor is her a rabid Jew-hater so I see him striking a balance.
@ Tariq
You do NOT have knowledge of the unseen, so stop going around saying “There will never be…” anything. This statement contradicts the Qur’an:
72:26 “(He Alone) the All-Knower of the Ghâ’ib (unseen), and He reveals to none His Ghâ’ib (unseen).”
72:27 Except to a Messenger (from mankind) whom He has chosen (He informs him of unseen as much as He likes), and then He makes a band of watching guards (angels) to march before him and behind him.
You have no idea what Allaah has decreed for Palestine!!
You statement “There will never be…” is in conflict with the act of worship called Tawakkul (Trust and Reliance in Allaah). Allaah said in refutation of your kalaam:
65:2 “…And whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).
65:3 And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allâh, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allâh will accomplish his purpose. Indeed Allâh has set a measure for all things.
You need to fear Allaah with your misguided statements!!!!!
@ Daud
(And YES I AM SHOUTING)
SHOW ME WHERE I CLAIMED TO HAVE “KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNSEEN”???????????????????????????
SHOW ME!
PLEASE SHOW ME!!!!
I AM TIRED OF YOUR SILLY ACCUSATIONS. SOMEHOW I AM THE ROOT OF EVIL WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN YOUR RANKS DOING ALL KINDS OF CRAP AND YOU PEOPLE ARE SILENT
LEAVE ME ALONE
You’ve said over and over again: “There Will NEVER Be Peace, blah blah blah”; and clearly you’re referring to the to the future, aren’t you?…and isn’t the future part of the ghayb (unseen)? How do you know there will “NEVER be peace” in that region? What “revelation” did you receive that prompted you to make such a statement? Hell no, you don’t know that, so stop saying it!!! You can’t say NEVER because you don’t know what Allaah has decreed for Palestine.
For all we know, Allaah could have decreed a peace treaty for them beginning next week, and the jews and the palestinians could live together in harmony; or He could even guide the jews to Islaam, if He wants to! Allaah has certainly done things like this before!!!
Remember, Allaah threw Yunus (alayhi wa salaatu wa salam) into the sea, and into the belly of a fish for saying that his people will NEVER believe!!!!!! He made Tawbah, and then Allaah guided ALL of Yunus’ people to eemaan!!!
I say this to illustrate the point that only ALLAAH knows what’s in store for Palestine; not you, me, nor anyone else!! So we must refrain from making the kind of statement you made!!!
Your statement about future events is no different than if someone went to a flippin’ fortune-teller!
@gess
you make some interesting points particularly “BDS” strategy
however I don’t think the zionist draw there main benefit from guilt, rather through a classic carrot & stick marketing strategy. This not to say that all Jewish people are part of a conspiracy, yet the zionist do benefit from the active involvement of jews in america. We always point to the media but it’s deeper than that. For the carrot look at civil rights issues, in the polictical arena, institutions of higher education, entertainment industry, financial institutions and medical institutions you name it. and in all of these fields there are jews who do kind things for people and win hearts. take higher learning for example, name one major university the doesn’t have a major jewish contributor. I could go on and on but jewish people are seen as a positive force in American society. As for the stick
well if you disagree with Isreal you get sued and smeared in courts
For example
@ Daud
CAN YOU READ ENGLISH?????????????
WHERE IN THE HELL DID I CLAIM TO BE A DAMN FORTUNE TELLER???????????????????
WHERE DID I SAY THAT I RECEIVED “REVELATION”
YOU SIR ARE A LIAR. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID ANY SUCH THING?
I GAVE MY OPINION AND THAT IS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I COULD BE WRONG OR RIGHT. I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE TELLING THE FUTURE.
I REPEAT: AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
AT NO TIME DID I CLAIM TO KNOW THE FUTURE
YOU EXTREME HATRED FOR ME HAS GONE WAY TO FAR.
DIRECT SOME OF YOUR HATE TO YOUR BUDDIES THAT ARE SCREWING PROSTITUTES IN UAE AND EGYPT.
BUT YOU WON’T DO THAT. YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SPEW YOUR VENOM TOWARD RESPONSIBLE FATHERS AND COMMUNITY WORKERS WHILE HIDING THOSE EVIL PEOPLE IN YOUR RANKS.
IF YOU HATE ME SO BAD (YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW ME!), THEN DON’T READ MY BLOG. LEAVE ME ALONE
(To Others: YES, I am pissed off!!)
Akhi, you really need to chill with all the unnecessary drama. I don’t have any “extreme hatred” for you nor anybody else. First ,because it ain’t from our Deen; as comes from one of the statements from the Salaf, “Love and hate with moderation because you may one day have to love someone you once hated, and hate someone who you once loved”—of course that’s for Allaah’s sake! Secondly, because you ain’t that big a deal, except perhaps in your own mind. To me you’re just the typical person of desires who runs around speaking about Allaah, His Messenger (salallaahu alayhi wa salam), and the Deen of Islaam, based on your opinions rather than knowledge. So, no I don’t hate you; actually, I feel sorry for you.
I have no idea how anyone can get so bothered by your ignorant statements, so much that they threaten you—which by the way is haraam! If you think it was me, I’ll gladly submit any information you need to free myself from such nonsense. Like I said, first of all it’s haraam; and you ain’t that important!
CAN YOU READ ENGLISH?????????????
Mashallaah, yes I can. The context in which you used NEVER, connotes the future, and I simply pointed that out to you.
WHERE IN THE HELL DID I CLAIM TO BE A DAMN FORTUNE TELLER???????????????????
You didn’t claim to be one. I just pointed out the FACT that when you said NEVER; you were talking about future events in Palestine—and reminded you that you didn’t have that kind of knowledge!! That’s what Fortune-tellers do, speak about the future events they have no knowledge of..
WHERE DID I SAY THAT I RECEIVED “REVELATION”
You never said it. I just reminded you—and the reminder benefits the BELIEVER—that the only way mankind can tell future events is through revelation; which you CAN NOT receive because Prophethood has ended!
YOU SIR ARE A LIAR. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID ANY SUCH THING?
n/a
I GAVE MY OPINION AND THAT IS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I COULD BE WRONG OR RIGHT.
I’ve told you time and time again, that “Islaam is a Deen of Proofs, not opinions”. You and I are from the common Muslims, and our “opinions” about the Deen don’t count because we are not scholars!!
“You could be wrong or right”!?! What scholar of Islaam preceded you in this statement? Islaam is a Deen of clarity and truth; it is not a Deen of conjecture and opinions based on ignorance.
YOU EXTREME HATRED FOR ME HAS GONE WAY TO FAR.
See above
DIRECT SOME OF YOUR HATE TO YOUR BUDDIES THAT ARE SCREWING PROSTITUTES IN UAE AND EGYPT.
What buddies of mine? I try my best to keep good companionship, so I don’t hang with open sinners. If I hung around someone who did this kind of thing, I’d boycott him, just like the salaf did!!!!!!!!!!! You really need to watch your mouth concerning this issue, too! You need four witnesses who saw the private parts touch, before you can accuse someone of “screwing prostitutes” i.e zinaa—not my speech but the Speech of Allaah:
24:4 And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
You need to stop accusing people of zinaa without proof because Allaah threatens you,
24:19 Verily, those who like that (the crime of) illegal sexual intercourse should be propagated among those who believe, they will have a painful torment in this world and in the Hereafter. And Allâh knows and you know not.
If there are Muslims doing that over seas, don’t worry—Allaah is going to deal with them.
BUT YOU WON’T DO THAT. YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SPEW YOUR VENOM TOWARD RESPONSIBLE FATHERS AND COMMUNITY WORKERS WHILE HIDING THOSE EVIL PEOPLE IN YOUR RANKS.
I don’t do this. Bring your proof.
IF YOU HATE ME SO BAD (YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW ME!), THEN DON’T READ MY BLOG. LEAVE ME ALONE
I don’t hate you. If you’ve noticed, when you talk about your scrub cowboys or any other irrelevant dunyah related thing, I remain silent. But when you talk without knowledge about something regarding the Deen (and occasionally something about finance/economics and business), if I know the proofs I respond.
My Dear Brother Tariq:
Do NOT let the likes of people like Daud push your emotional buttons. That is the very purpose of a low-life internet troll like him. Let me deconstruct this narcissistic sociopath for the benefit of you and all who may read this comment.
The unstated and covert mission of an Internet troll or mole is to find progressive blogs, be they black, white or in this case muslim, and derail legitimate conversation of readers.
When they visit those blogs - those being defined as any progressive, thought provoking, anti-racist blog - their mission is to plant death seeds. They do this through their comments. Their intent is to kill any worthwhile conversation that commenters might have by dismissing the ideas in that post, and planting seeds confusion, misinformation, lies and/or bigotry.
One end result is that visitors get angry over what the commenter said and they discuss this, rather than the contents of the post that the blogger took time to write.
Once they get away with it, other haters visit and sprinkle similar comments in that post and future ones. One gets the idea that they are connected with one another via email or phone, and they very well may be - or they may be the same person masquerading as one.
The strategy of these Internet trolls is to put a chilling effect on the blog. Regular visitors may not want to come as often or read the comments because they don’t want to get their blood pressure up from reading bullshit by the ‘new regulars’ who have made that blog one of their trailers homes.
In addition, they tie up the blogger’s valuable time, who spends an inordinate amount of time writing a thoughtful reply to the hater, only to have it dismissed, rejected, ignored or challenged again.
This sucks away from the blogger’s creativity as well. Instead of thinking about and following new ideas for new posts, he or she wastes time having an online conversation via comments with someone who is for the most part, insane.
Yes, insane.
I’m speaking to the “Dauds” of the world to let you know that your schemes of Satan have been revealed and I’m calling you on it. NO ONE NEEDS TO TOLORATE YOUR GARBAGE ANYMORE. Tariq it’s time for you to block this fool and others like him because by his M-O his a tool of Satan.
@Blakoak777
Though he has all of the signs of a classic troll, I don’t think he’s toll, I think honestly believes this stuff he constantly making illogical contridictory statements like “You and I are from the common Muslims, and our opinions about the Deen dont count because we are not scholars!!” yet in the same post say “If I know the proofs I respond” LOL how wack is that. First off “A MUSLIM IS NEVER EXEMPT FROM HAVING PROOF TO BACK THEIR OPPINION” this applies to scholar and lay person. this is the difference between talid and ittiba
so to take his logic about the use of the word never to its conclusion, that would mean Muslims could never (LOL) use the word “never” about future events unless its in the Qur’an or hadith. (LOL) Man even a troll would know better than to back himself in such a illogical loop. (LOL)
I can appreciate self erudition, I’m somewhat of a bibliophile myself, I even use google in both english and some cases arabic AND I’ve even listen a few paltalks but these cut and paste gurus take the cake. remember the egg & skillet PSA about drugs, well Daud is what happens when you delve into “Islam by internet” for too long without a teacher you get convoluted logic.
Blakoak777 when he get back from saudi after being jerked around have mercy and offer him discounted mental services because we can’t say he won’t NEVER need it LOL
Wow, what a sick post.
I agree with you that the venture known as Israel is likely to fail, but unlike you, I mourn that fact rather than celebrate it.
You know why Israel may very well fail? Because we Jews didn’t do what you goyim ALWAYS do, which is to wipe out your mortal enemies when you have the chance. Let’s be clear “Tariq”, you’re ancestors of every hue and faith - I’m including here your white ancestors and your black ones, you’re christian spiritual ancestors, your muslims spiritual ancestors and your animist spiritual ancestors - survived and passed on their genes because they knew how to be cruel when the time warranted it. Over the past two and a half thousand years though, we Jews have forgotten that mortal lesson which is why, despite being among the most ancient of people and VERIFIABLY among the smartest people, we only make up some 1 out of every 500 people among the world’s population. We Jews could have wiped out our enemies so many times over, in fact we could do it in a day, but we’re fuckin pussies. That’s why we may very likely eventually be driven out of OUR land (there were just a few thousand goatherds here in the entire land before we started returning and making the place viable) and then see a few more holocausts before we’re completely disappeared or some magical religious salvation takes place (which I don’t really believe in). Because we’re pussies.
Cue the illiterate ones with their responses about some Arab child - these same illiterate ones who don’t give a fuck about the masses of tortured and murdered in Africa every day or of the torture and slavery in all muslim lands or of the fact that Israeli Arabs have greater civil rights than any other Arabs in the middle east or that there are more blacks under threat from Palestinian rockets than from Israeli ones (y’know how many Ethiopians live in Sdeirot and the other Israeli cities under attack?). Fuckin illiterate ones. I’ll see you at the mourning tent for my people but bring your party whistles and you’ll meet at least one Jew who’s learnt the lesson of his history.
As’salamu Aleikum Abu Usamah al-Aswad ( January 8th, 2009 at 7:28 pm )
To answer your question.
By their Fruits shall ye know them
@ Daud
Please do take Tariq’s advice and do not read his blog. Why spend your precious time reading the blogs of people you consider to be ignorant when instead you could focus on yourself. You have been a Salafi in the land of Kufr for 20 years and you still have not made hijrah. What are you waiting for? Do not be bothered by dunyah affairs, hurry up and go. This blog could NULLIFY your deen.
Regarding this post, i think there would be peace in the future, Palestinians and Jews could adopt a secular outlook towards the land if extremists on both sides are exterminated. If not then i do think Palestinians would probably be the ones wiped out, some would go and settle in other countries and others will turn to innefectual human bombs.
@ALL
This is not a Muslim vs Jewish issue, this is secular nationalist zionist oppressors vs Palestinian secular nationalist, who both are using religion, but neither are being guided by religous principles . If this was an mortal battle between Muslims and Jews how could one explain the survival of the sephardi Jews, who were able to survive and strive in the Muslim lands of Africa when Christians tried to wipe them out?
As long as Isreal has the backing of the US and nukes and Palestinians continue to be secular in their approach then the Palestians can NEVER win. If we American Muslims want to help oppressed Muslims in other lands they will have to do a better job at portraying ourselves as part of the fabric of America, this does not negate my unyelding belief that for Muslims to be effective we need to all come under a singe body of leadership inshaAllah
In the end, the problem to me is the fact that Israel has been from the start as ONLY the homeland of the Jewish people. I see no problem with Israel being the homeland of the Jews. But even in antiquity, those ‘foolish people’ were around and living there, even if they were just a bunch of goat herders.
No modern country which constitutionally defines itself as belonging to a certain ethnicity can survive. The ‘rest of the people’ will always exist and any entity in history that has tried to make it so by extermination/removal/etc has always suffered for the worse.
Personally, I believe the Arabs did a lot to bring this onto themselves with their choice to align with the English in WWI against the Ottomans so when things turned for the worst, they haven’t acknowledged the fact that they sold themselves out. Yeah, maybe Ottoman rule wasn’t so rosy, but now look at the alternative.
In the very future, Israelis and Palestinians wil live side by side in peace.Someday soon, a generation of peace loving and rational thinking people will rise up and end the madness.
They will look back to the past and be saddened because so many lives were lost in vain.
Please, it is foolish to believe that those who are enemies today will always be hating each other in the future.We can look back at History and check that one out.
Peace.
Marisol Cusatti
@ Marisol
You don’t know what the future holds. I understand that you don’t know any better, but you should refrain from making statements about the future, only Allaah knows what’s going to happen in the future. This is a matter of the unseen.
Daud:
You are such an ignorant and self righteous person. you don’t understand that Jehovah God made us intelligent .
God gave us the ability to change what is wrong within us. We are intelligent human beings and many of you are so full of fear and ignorance that you just do not get it.
God has told us the ample possibilities of what can happen.
Keep on waiting for God to change your life. You will wait and die in vain.
This is Jehovah God’s Creation and not ours. We must desist from making God in our own image.
Incidentally, God has a name just like everyone of us. His attributes are not his name.Allah only means God in Arabic.
Your name is Daud. I imagine your God has a name. God told Moses his name.
Your religion recognizes Abraham and Moses.
Why did you return to only calling the Creator “God” when Moses was told the Creator’s real name?
This is the time for the Muslim world to stop being afraid of life and to refrain from myths and fables and live with their full God given ability.
The madness, backwardness and ignorance that is rampant throughout the Muslim world is not your destiny.
I see all those Palestinian men screaming with a total lack of control and trying to tell the world:” look what the israelis are doing to us?”
My question to Arabs and Palestinians is: Why aren’t you in control of your own lives for the good of your own people?
Why are still living in a world of backwardness,ignorance,magic,superstition, myths and fables, and then saying it is God’s will?And at the same time believing that the Supreme God who made us intelligent will rescue you.
God will rescue us in his time, but we must live, learn and grow first and then show him that we are worthy of his life and Creation.
We must be fit and worthy with the truth and not with myths, magic and fables.
Here is the logic:Since God definitely has to win, his Creation will be victorious, so therefore, some of us will get it in the long run.
May the Peace and Joy of God remain with you.
Marisol Cusatti.
I’ve been watching brother daud and brother truth…..You have been doing a good job refuting and showing islamic adad in regards to speaking on the affairs of the religion…Barakalaah feekuum.. and .Marisol COO-COO satti……Our beliefs have nothing to do with the jehovah witnesses. The rest of your post reeks nothing but shirk..(paganism and associating partners with ALLAH) …The backwardness and other insinuations and accusations is the downfall of your western nation…..western non-muslim women dressing like sluts when they come out their houses, fornicating and with many sexual partners,incest, bastard children(children out of wedlock, open homosexuality, marriage between homosexual partners,open shirk like worshipping jesus and the devil etc, unsafe societies, large crime statistics,morally acceptable to be deceptive and lie, corruption and crime beyond belief, pedophilia beyond belief, rape beyond belief,drug abuse beyond belief……All this I mention isnt at a epidemic rate in all muslim countries(a few isolated cases)….So Marisol COO-COO satti….Go sell crazy somehwere else because we know what’s going on here……Unlizzzzzzzted2009
There is not such thing as “Jehova”. His name is Allaah!!!
Poor thing. I am no Jehovah Witness. God told Moses his name is Jehovah. This is the same God you say is yours. No Christian or Jew believes that Allah is their God.
Didn’t you say that the prophets of the Bible were before Muhamad who is considered to be the last one?Then you have to accept everything that is in the Bible.
Since the Quran is God’s last revelation, then the Holy Bible is God’s first according to you.
I know you don’t believe that when Muhamad and the Arabs received the verses of Quran that it was the first time God was speaking to mankind.
I am telling you that in the first revelation according to you, God gave his name as Jehovah.
Why change things and start calling him “God” or “Allah” which is only “God” in Arabic .That is not really saying much. It is really like calling someone girl , boy, man or woman. What is your God’s name?
If Islam is a universal religion and people speak many languages, why should everyone call God Allah which is an Arabic word for God?
The Spanish speaking Muslims can just call God -Dios;English ones,God, etc.,.
And this nonsenese of greeting people with “asaalam malekum” or whatever ,which is mere greetings in Arabic. What about Saludos,Good day, etc. Why in Arabic?This is really cultural imperialism that you folks are pushing.
Incidentally, it will never go too far because it is not meant to be.
Stop fooling yourselves:Honor killings, female circumcision,wife beatings and marrying young underage girls to older men is pedophilia.Polygamy is fornication. Marrying women just to have sex is wrong, then divorcing them. Keeping women as sex partners only.You just do it legally. Homosexuality exists in the Muslim world.The Taliban came into power because many Afghan men were accosting a young boy.
Many of you still practice paganism.
You believe your dead walk with you. Your societies are very unsafe.You are your own worst enemies. Tell me of one decent ,striving, advanced Muslim country today. You are not producing intelligent and sober minded people.
You murder your citizens and often it is not even recorded. Everything is recorded in the western world.
There is no way ,the western world will ever succumb to your barbaric and backward way of life.
Because you are ignorant and backward you view women as sluts if they are not veilded, which is totally different to what women really are.
You have not left the harems with their eunnuchs. The veils came out of the harems to tantalize and seduce men.
You are really afraid of women.Women are only seen as sexual objects to many of you. Yes, circumcise women to keep them virgins.
God created women as virgins.You always must redo what God has done because you don’t trust God.
No backward society that denies women their God-given rights can ever advance and produce brilliant sons and daughters. Keep on blaming women for everthing and see how far you will go.
And one more thing,no ethnic group will ever be wiped off this planet.That thinking is not of God.So please stop dreaming about killing people off.
God has willed within us the task of multiplying ourselves. It is God’s will.
All of the many ethnic groups that exist now will remain till the very end. Both israel and the Palestinians will never be wiped off. The Black Muslims in Darfur will not be wiped off by the Arab Muslims either.
This is not our Creation nor our fairy tales, myths and legends.
The Creation belongs to God ,the author and finisher of all things.
This is my last post.
Peace
Marisol Cusatti.
@ marisol CUCKO-sattee we have no paganism in islam sorry that’s the jesus worshipping nonsense your talking… No where in islamic texts will you find evidence of these crimes you mention….and they arent widespread in muslim countries….Honor killings are done by jordanian christians too>>>>>>>all the arabian knights and ali baba garbage you learned from orientalists …you have no proof for…..Western women are and dress like sluts…..Premarital sex occurs with them at 15yrs old with as much as 9 partners as tyra banks proved…..meagans law and your thousands of child terrorists how dare you speak??????………SExual object is all western women want to be..they wear halter tops,skirts up to their vaginal areas…daisy dukes shorts such filth…go sell your whoredome and filth somewhere else…We take care of women…while western non-muslim men try to sleep with as many women as they can(sexual gluttons)…. Muslim women have fathers from marriage ……Darfur and taliban lies are certain things which you were fed you cant confirm….but my staff is here….and we seee….who’s your witnesses brad pitt and angelina jolie???????? the 2 unmarried fornicators having loads of bastard children>>>>>Those are your role models…we dont find children and adults wanting to imitate “Jesus” alayhi salatu was salaam…People in the usa want to be movie stars ,use drugs, fornicate,or worst like worshipping jesus or bhudha……The circumcision you read about in some countries is cultural and has no basis in islam…..EVERY 2 MINUTES SOMEONE IN THE USA IS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED……marisol with your paste and clip news clippings which is controlled by the western media hold no weight with the muslims … Preach your whoredome to the sexual and mentally deprived…Marisol CUCKO-satti……Unlissted2009 just refuted “Marisol Cucko-satti …. a product of an enviroment. of fornication and mayhem…who was lobotomized to think fornication and homosexuality marriage and other western filth is praiseworthy and the opposite is backwardness….as the muslims still marry in multitude,raise their children,there is such of thing called virginity in the muslim world, tawheed creed, women dress moderately, all of this is mythology….no marisol it’s diginity and honor and what Allah …azza wa jaalaa commanded….Unlizzzzzzzzted2009
typo” it ISNT mythology**********
wow.
A one state solution is what should be worked for now and all the extreme Zionists of Israel should go to New York, there wont be any fear of a Shoah there and it’s already like a second Israeli state.
-MT
well, what an heated debate!
anyway, Tariq, my brother, I’m shocked! I love your blog man! It’s so refreshing to see a novel view point in the sea of generic Muslim blogs, yet you throw this on me! Perhaps the most typical reactionary and simplistic view! Why?!
Firstly, the idea of the Jews leaving is not feesable. As was pointed out, Jews in Israel, since the Holocaust have had very much a do or die attitude. There as committed as the Palestinians. If they weren’t they probably would have left by now. And anyway, for many of them, Israel is the only place they have known. Leaving for them is unfathomable. And even if your proposal is relized and they do leave, how much longer will it be until the next Jewish diaspora are banging at the door again? As long as the idea of the tribe of Israel exists in Jewish ritual and thought, at least some segment of the population will look nostalgicly at that part of the world. Especially if they were forced out.
The other problem I have with your statement is you suggest that the Jews should go to the west. What you seem to over look is that many of the Jews in Israel are not from Europe or USA but are from Arab Countries. They’ll be about as at home in the Western world as Palestinian refugees are. Ultimately, the Middle East is there home.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support Israel. The Holocaust, as sympathetic as I am to the victims (and believe me I am), has been completely over used to justify Israel’s existance, not to mention gloss over the tremendous human rights violations Israel has committed. But banishment of any kind won’t help anything. All Religious elements must be over looked (for BOTH sides) and this conflict must be looked at for what it is, a secular battle for land and autonomy. Bringing Religion into it only complicates it further. That is why a completely secular bi national state is needed. If Jews and Palestinians could work together and utilize there shared resources, there could be emence progress in the region. But as everyone knows, before this is possible, the whole idea of Zionism must be totally disavowed, which years of indoctrination and privilege will make difficult. That and the Palestinians have to be able to forgive the Jews for the brutality commited by Israel in their name. With the brutality were witnessing, this is understandably going to be very hard.
So, is this all possible? Well, you could look at the classic examples ie Ireland, South Africa ect. Or well, just look at the responses to this post….look how many people advocate the one state (For Jews and Palestinians). I think it’s possible, even if in the distant future. Perhaps I’m just an Idealist.
Gods will be done.
I seriously dont understand the people who are claiming that, the issue of Palestine is not an Muslim and Jewish issue? How can it not be when our blood are being massacred and starved by Zionist? Another major War is Inevitable in the middle east. We dont hate Jews but Israel is an illegal state which was founded on Land that doesnt belong to them.
Every last person on this earth lives according to their religion. Religion is a belief system so it doesn’t matter if you’re living according to an atheist belief, Christian belief, Muslim belief, Jewish, Hindu or Buddha, New Age or whatever other belief system there is. We all live our daily lives and make the choices we make based upon our belief system, whether we actively realize it or not. Though some do change their belief systems at a point during their lives, there’s no way we can expect a whole group of people of any particular faith, to just up and change their minds. I am a Christian and I will be a Christian for the rest of my life. Someone else telling me I’m crazy for what I believe, how I believe, and how I act on my faith, makes no difference to me. I’m still going to stick with My God and what I believe is right. Muslims do the same, as do most other religions so how can we expect that what the Jews have believed for many, many years is just going to change? If they believe God gave them the land they are in, it is as true for them as anything Allah has to say to Muslims ro Christ to Christians. I’m not saying all religions are true, but whta i’m saying is, whatever we believe, we believe with our whole hearts, minds and souls and are ready to stand on it, no matter what, or we never really had faith in what we claim to have faith in to begin with. So do we do away with a whole people? I think not! Killing everyone off is not the answer. I know in my own heart what the answer is but I fear most here would not accept it so I won’t waste my time. I only wanted to say that no one seems to be thinking in reality when it comes to peace on this earth. This earth, with sinful human beings trying to run the show, is NOT going to EVER see peace, I don’t care what anyone does, someone will always want more or to kill more. People are greedy and no one is willing to love anymore, but only to fight, argue, hate, kill. Every last one of us has a background of someone killing for no good reason so the finger pointing or saying this group did this or that group did that doesn’t even fly. Everyone is involved and Everyone wants what THEY want. No one seems to care about anyone but themselves anymore and the closer we get to the end of this world, the worse things are going to get. Any peace that God even allows for a short time, will be just that, a ’short time’. Until Christ returns, THERE WILL NEVER BE TRUE PEACE!
fucking muslim scum… talking so casually about genocide, let’s make some thing absolutely clear to you fucking religious filth, the world can just as easyily decide to fucking destroy you and you obscene religion, the more you talk about killing the jews the more you are asking for it.
muslim equals scum
I can’t figure out why bing sent me to this site but I feel I should say I have been pretty captivated by the information you have patched together. How much effort did it take to get this many internet users to your blog pages? I am fairly to all this.