Being Vindictive Doesn’t Help
Being vindictive makes you less happy, less likely to find employment
Vindictiveness doesn’t pay. This has been demonstrated by a current study at Bonn and Maastricht Universities. According to this study, a person inclined to deal with inequity on a tit-for-tat basis tends to experience more unemployment than other people. Vindictive people also have less friends and are less satisfied with their lives. The study appears in the current edition of the Economic Journal.
We tend to live by the motto “tit for tat”. We repay an invitation to dinner with a counter-invitation; when a friend helps us to move house, we help to move his furniture a few months later. On the other hand, we repay meanness in the same coin. Scientists speak here of reciprocity. A person who repays friendly actions in a like manner is said to behave with positive reciprocity, and one who avenges unfairness acts with negative reciprocity.
Positive and negative reciprocity are interdependent traits: many people incline to positive reciprocity, others more to negative; others, again, incline to both. The researchers from Bonn and Maastricht wanted to discover what influence these traits of character have on parameters such as “success” or “satisfaction with life”. For this, they resorted to data from the so-called “socio-economic panel”. This contains information gathered by the Deutsche Institut für Wirtschaftsforschung (German Institute for economic Research) in its annual surveys. These involve around 20,000 respondents from all over Germany and cover a diversity of topics.
Filed under: Uncategorized
I thought Islam taught its followers “tit for tat “or to take revenge to please Allah.Isn’t this what Jihad is all about. And everything those lunatic fundamentalist groups preach. It is also the very reason why many Muslism cheered after September 11.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the only God who have said: “Vengeance is mine”.
I think that we all had those thoughts from time to time.
Just the other day,there was this woman that I haven’t seen since I was a teen ager. With her , I just remembered not liking her because she thought that she was better than people and she would let you know it. I would tell my mom how much I disliked her and wished that she was 50 feet away from me. Then, all sort of nasty rumors was spreaded about her–some I knew for a fact was true. I admit, the thought was tempting to do, but some guy beat me to the punch.
This woman now had 5 kids. Some of this stuff about herwas so vile that I couldn’t do it. Let’s put it this way, it really could ruin her as a matter of fact, I know that if it was me, I would be devastated.
@ Gianella
Islam doesn’t teach tit for tat it teaches justice and sometimes you need exact punishment for justice to be rendered.
As far muslims cheering I don’t recall anybody I know or see anybody cheering for that incident . However I do recall many muslims offering condolences ,same as other non-muslim countries.
For Deut. 32:35 you have take it in context of Duet. 35:32. It is speaking specifically of the people of Sodam & Gomorrah. It is specific statement not a general one.
my bad i meant Deut 32:32
Only God can render justice.
Justice:
# the quality of being just or fair
# judgment involved in the determination of rights and the assignment of rewards and punishments
1 Kings 3:9 -10
Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to JUDGE thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
The LORD was pleased that Solomon made this request.
Justice in Bible:
http://www.bible-topics.com/Justice.html
G.Troll,
LOL! I see someone wants to attack Islam so badly!! Please go and troll somewhere else.
Wouldn’t you expect someone to seek and give you justice if someone broke in your house and killed your Mother? Would you just bury her? wouldn’t you call the police? wouldn’t you try to find the murderer? Or, would you wait for God to send the person to your door to apologize.
If you were in a car accident, and someone hit your car, would you leave the car and wait for God to give you justice? Be for real troll!
Jesus(as) preach jihad according to the bible. Here is the proof…Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me…
If I used most Christians thinking when asking why Muslims preach jihad and why can’t they be left alone to commit shirk. I tell you to go to your bibles, and read Luke 19:27. Why didn’t Jesus(as) leave the people to do what they wanted also. I don’t know if you are Christian or not, but this is what I read from Jesus according to the King James Version of the bible.
Some people want to be smart, but really they should read their own text before trying to attack Islam.
Justice in the bible:
2 Samuel 8:15 And David reigned over all Israel; and David executed judgment and justice unto all his people. David clearly “executed” justice and judged also.
Deuteronomy 16:18 Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment. Isn’t God instructed the tribes to take “judges and officers” to deal justice?
Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel).
Hahaha! Yeah, okay Gianella! Now that we gave you proof from the bible. Your argument is “Allah” is not the God of Ibrahim, Isaac, and Jacob. LOL! Everytime the trolls come out and argue they get beaten back.
Who is the God of them all Gianella? Jesus?-peace be upon him, the day he was born the day he will die. Jesus was not yet born when they were alive, so, who did they worship? Secondly, How can you love Ibrahim-peace be upon him- when you refused to acknowledge his first born child- a son-named Ishmael(Ismail) peace be upon him. You are a fake, racist, and you don’t love these prophets you named. Go away troll!!!
Genesis 21:18 Ismael to be a great nation? blessed?
Who blessed Ismael G.Troll? Wasn’t it the same God, who spoke to Abrahim-peace be upon him. If this is the same God, then it means it the same God, of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob. In fact, when Abraham died Isaac went and got Ishmael and they buried their father together. I read this in the bible. So, of course Allah(swt) is the same God of them all.
Go away racist troll! Your very own bible calls you a liar!
What are you talking about? When Moses asked God who he was, God referred to himself as as” the God af Abraham, Isaac and Jacob”.
Take that up with God. No one has anything against Ishmael. But you want to put things where they aren’t. Why is this racism? We are all descendants of Adam and Eve.
God told Abraham that because of his faith he would bless all nations, that includes all the descendants of Adam and Eve and obviously the descendants of Ishmael. Who told you I hate Ishmael? Do you hate Jacob (Israel)?
God blessed all human beings. You want to arrange the Holy Bible to soothe you. God is the one who refers to himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ;and please don’t be jealous .Nothing has been taken away from Ishmael.
There is no magic formula every situation is different and requires a different response. Some wrongs can be overlooked and forgiven, some wrongs require retribution.
2 Gianella
It looks like you have not understanding about languages nor history. When you make statements like :
You clearly have no understanding that Hebrew (the langugae of the torah) and Arabic are related languages from same root language. Allah in Arabic means the same thing as Elah in hebrew, the singular of plural elohim. Don’t believe take the word of Christian Missionary.
Allah only means God in Arabic, and it is the only reason many Christian Arabs and Jews refer to God as Allah. It is based on the language they speak.
Obviously Christian Arabs and Jews worship Yahweh(Jehovah)-the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
But let me give you a lesson in linguistics. In the family of languages, bread in French is pain; in Spanish it’s pan; in Italian it’s pane; in Portuguese it’s pao(an asterics on the “a”, giving the word pao a similiar sound as the Spanish pronunciation.
I am not surprised of the silmiliarity between the Hebrew Eloha and Elohim with Arabic.
Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic languages.
You mentioned Ishmael in your last post,and you seemed to believe that Abraham and God should have selected Ishmael since he was the first born. Abraham wanted ishmael to be the chosen but God had already selected Isaac, the son of the marriage between Abraham and Sarah.
You don’t uncderstand that chosen the first is not how God does things. Sarah forced Hagar on Abraham when God already had planned for Abraham and Sarah to have a son. But every child conceived is always welcomed by God. God already had his will, and his plans are not like human beings. God’s will always stand.
The covenant with Abraham was already willed . This is not to fault Hagar and Ishmael for anything. God does what he pleases, God does not have to ask us pernmission for anyhting or to please any nation or ethnic group in any way.
When God told Abraham to kill isaac, that was sybmbolic of what God himself was about to do for mankind . This may not make sense to many of you but it does not have to.
.
God knows what he is doing.It is not a matter of fairness. This was not racism either. We all are chidren of the Creation. God’s justice is not like ours.
You seemed also to have a problem understanding the difference between God’s justice and the little foolish ,Mickey Mouse quasi justice that mankind creates that is always tarnished with injustice in the first place.
Allah and Jehovah Jireh (the God Abraham was faithful to; the God, Jacob wrestled with, and later God name him Israel ) are not the same ,because Allah and the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not equal in personality.They are just two different in terms of Personality, Will and Agenda.
And please don’t try to tell me that Jesus spoke about your Prophet when Christ mentioned the coming of Comforter . We all know that the Comforter was the pouring of the Holy Spirit throughout God’s Creation.
The birth of evey prophet in the Holy Bible has always being prophecied and yours was not.
May Allah guide us and you, Gianella,
The problem here is that you are assuming the Bible to be a reliable frame of reference. Quoting the Bible doesn’t “prove” anything–other than that the book is internally inconsistent and that the doctrines derived therefrom are unsound.
For one, it is enough to look at history. The most ancient of Biblical manuscripts existing today are not in agreement with one another. Furthermore, the the various churches (including, the older church sects) have different VERSIONS of the Bible. Here, i don’t mean different translations of the same original text(s)–i’m talking about the various churches cannot agree which Biblical books are actually (allegedly) inspired by God, and which are not. Consequently, the Coptic Church has a different VERSION of the Bible from the Greek Church, which is different from the Ethiopian Bible, which is different from the Roman Catholic Bible, which is different from the Protestant Bible… ad nauseum.
Secondly–and more importantly–it is enough to look at what the Bible says about the Creator to know that it is not a Divine Revelation. In the Book of Genesis, it says that God rested after creating the Heavens and earth. Rest comes because of a state of exhaustion. God is Omnipotent and doesn’t get tired. God is Eternal and does not change. Furthermore, on the third page of the Bible, it claims that God was WALKING AROUND Paradise LOOKING FOR Adam and Eve and was unable to find them (because they hid from God upon hearing HIS (alleged) FOOTSTEPS… so the Bible says).
As was said, God is Eternal. God is One. God is not divisible; God is not composed of parts, pieces, organs, limbs, or appendags. God is not a body (or a spirit). God does not change, and God is not a spatial entity. Motion and stillness are inapplicable to God, for God does not occupy space–or change. God was before space/place, and God is as God always was (i.e., without space or place). It is enough for one to read the Bible’s grossly anthropomorphic notions about the Creator to recognize that the Bible is not revelation from God. Add to that the Christian-pagan idea that the Creator of the universe was transformed (remember, God is Eternal and does not change) and incarnated in the womb of a woman that should make it clear to every reasonable being that the Bible/Christianity are a fraud.
With Allah is the success.
swarthmoor.wordpress.com
So then why do you accept certain parts of the Bible as true? Why do you lean on Abraham? If the Bible is inconsistent ,then leave Abraham alone with the Jews and the Christians and out of your religion.
One of the problems many people have is trying to decipher the difference between symbols, allegory, literary and reality. I noticed that it is the same thing with Muslims and the interpretation of the Quran.
Many aspects of the Quran are allegorical and do not square with reality.
One thing I will say,I find it inconceivable for a God the caliber of the one who loved Abraham because of his faithfulness and who promised mankind so much, would create females(Seventy dark eyed virgins, etc) for the main purpose of having them engage in sexual acts in Paradise( an After Life), with so called martyrs who died hurting their fellow human beings they were able to touch and see for whatever cause.
You seemed to have a problem explaining your God.
You have told me what God is not, but not what God is.
With all due respect,the explanation of your God does not sound like a powerful God. With all due respect, you sound as if you described nothing.
My Supreme God is Spirit , Supreme,Omnipotent and Omniscient,and therefore he is capable of everything. A God who created the entire Creation and humanity is very much capable of doing whatever He wants.
Nothing is outside of His reach.If God wants to have hands to prove a point, God can make them and then get rid of them, etc.
If God wants to make himself have eyes to prove a point; Yes, He can.
God told Ancient Israel that if anyyone hurts them, it was as if they touched His (God’s) eyeballs. Obviously no one can hurt God,but it is very clear in terms of explaning God’s love to human beings .
How on earth can we human beings understand our Supreme God if the Creator does not use his own way of explaining things. Human beings are really like little children in kindergarten when dealing with a Supreme, Omnipotent, Omniscient God.
In the Heavenly afterlife of the God of Abraham ,Isaac and Jacob,God has promised those who have passed the test not with rituals, but with faith, love and redemption that they will be like angels, and there wouldn’t be any sexual activity.
I can square that peaceful splendor of love and devotion with a loving Supreme God .
If most earthly parents do not really want their children married or unmarried ,having sex in their homes, I do not think that a Supreme God would either.
May the Peace and Love of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel) remain with you.
Gianella,
The historical fact is that the Bible has been changed. That is one of the reasons why the various churches (so-called Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic) all have different VERSIONS of the Bible. Secondly, what the Bible reports about Abraham is not from eye-witnessed reports. Abraham lived HUNDREDS of years before Moses (Moses being the Prophet who allegedly “wrote” the stories speaking about the life of Abraham).
It presumed (by Christians/Jews) that the writings ascribed to Moses are actually inspired by Divine Revelation–and not mere historical transmission. However, as i pointed out, and is admitted by Biblical historians, the Bible does NOT contain the authentic/untampred teachings of Moses (or Abraham). The Bible contains SOME truths, because not all of it has been pervrted. However, the Quran, which has not been changed, contains BY WAY OF DIVINE REVELATION the actual events in the lives of those ancient Prophets.
Gianella, you have to understand that God is Eternal (Beginnignless). When you understand that, then you can understand that change/transformation or corporealism and the occupation of space/dimensions is INAPPLICABLE TO GOD, for God is ABSOLUTELY different from the creations. Creations, and the attributes of creations, cannot become God. Similarly, God is Perfect and free of all need and free of all imperfection; therefore, created characteristics cannot be ascribed to God.
Being a body entails dependency upon space. God was before space, and God does not need the creations. Ergo, God does not transform and materialize into a space or a location (which proves that God–Who creatd Heaven–does not dwell in Heaven). All of that should be very easy to understand.
Regarding the Attributes of God, first you need to know that God is ONE. That is, God is Unique with no comparsion IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. God is One in that God is not composed of pieces, parts, organs, or appendages. God is not a material body. God is not a spiritual body. God does not exist in ANY DIMENSION–for God is not dependent upon anything. God is One; God has no associates; God alone deserves to be worshipped.
Furthermore, the Eternal Creator has the Attributes and Names of Perfection. God is attributed with the Perfect Knowledge, Power, and Will. God (Allah) is the Creator of everything. God is Beginningless and Everlasting and does not change. God is the One Who creates life and death in the creatures. God is the One Who Provides, Who is Universally Merciful to the Believers (Muslims) and non-believers in this world. God is Exclusively Merciful to the Believers in the Hereafter. God is the Owner and Controller of this universe. God is Just and does as God wills. God is the One Who Guides. God is the One Who Misguides. God is Holy and clear of any of the attributes of creation. God is the One Who accepts the repentance. God is the One Who will resurrect us after death and bring us into account for our creeds and deeds.
This matter can be summed up by understanding that the Creator is ABSOLUTELY different from the creations. Muslims do not pray to Nature, or humans, or statues, or images of the mind. We pray to the Eternal Creator–the Creator of everything–to Whom nothing is similar nor anything greater.
With Allah is the success.
Swarth Moor:
A God who requires that his followers use force as a proselytizing tool or one who tells his children to fight for him is scary in my book.
I want God fighting for me day in and out. I also expect my God to be able to transform his people into good people.
Spiritually, I look for the fruits of the spirit:
Love,joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,
faithfulness,gentleness and self control.
If there is little transformation in the followers of a religion and I see too much arrogance , wickedness,and self righteousness, I have a problem rating the religion and hence the God with a high score.
You also seemd to have within your consciousness the notion of Spirit as a being close to what is found in pagan religions.If you do, you are incorrrect.
I view Muslims turning to the east to pray ,as defying the notion that God is everywhere.
With that ritual It appears that your God is somewhere locked up in Saudi Arabia.
Also I have no faith in human beings, only in God. I see too many Muslims arrogantly believing that just being a Muslim is tantamount to something so magnificent, that many of you believe that you have acquired perfection. You are not pefect. As human beings we must always keep a check on ourselves or else we could become evil and not even recognize it.
.
There is no humility in the Muslim heart, especially the men’s. This is where many of you never accept the atrocities that you have incurred on yoursel ves and on others. This is scary indeed.
As human beings, we are all prone to wickedness, and we must accept this fact. Many of you believe that your Holy Book can bring justice on eath. This is an impossibility because only God can bring justice.
Whenever Your Koran is used as a political document, Muslims have failed miserably. There is no justice in Saudi Arabia, and anywhere within the Muslim world. And also with the sharia laws that are imposed in isolated areas, there is not even a semblance of justice.Often it appears like plain and blatant wickedness.
Recently an elderly woman was jailed in Saudi Arabia because she was found with two men, her nephews who came to bring her loaves of bread. Just simply lack of compassion and blatant stupidity. Girls and women are treated unfairly. This proved that mankind is incapable of meting out justice even when using holy books.
At least secular laws are much better because they can be appealed whenever there is an injustice.And even secular laws don’t work because mankind is naturally unfair..
I frankly don’t believe human beings are capable of true justice. Islam cannot create justice on earth because only God can.
God’s Will and promise is not for us to create a theocracy on earth because humans are incapable of justice or anything good.
Swathmoor:
One more thing:
Those who live by the sword, will die by the sword.
Gianella,
First and foremost, the human being’s priority is to BELIEVE PROPERLY IN THE CREATOR. If a person worships a creation or does good deeds for the sake of the creation, then those acts are sinful and will be for naught in the Hereafter. The worship of the One True God SHOULD be the highest obective in a person’s life.
Whatever you mean by “spirit” you are talking about something that occupies space. God was before space–or any other dimensions–and God is as God always was. God is Perfect and does not change. Similarly, God is not “everywhere.” God CREATED the “wheres” (places). If God were (allegedly) everywhere, then you are claiming God exists in the toilet and in sewage. As you can see, that’s a VILE belief. God KNOWS about everything everywhere without being there. God exists without being in a location, for God does not need or resemble the creation.
Regarding your saying:
“Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, gentleness and self control.”
…I would agree with all of that–understood in the context of JUSTICE. As they say: “No justice, no peace.”
Much of your post is a rant, but i do want to clarify a few points. One, God is always Just, for God owns us and this Universe, and God is entitled to do whatever God wills with His (no gender intended) property. God is the One Who has the right to order and prohibit–to make whatever He wills to be good or to be evil. Injustice, on the other hand, is to do what one is not entitled to do. None of us are entitled to disobey God.
Two, over the past century more death and destruction has been caused in the name of secular ideologies (communism, capitalism, and facism) than in the 1,400 years of the Nation of Muhammad (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) and his followers. Furthermore, the Saudi regime is NOT an Islamic state. It promotes the anthropomorphic doctrine of Wahhabism. If the Saudis were governing by Islam, then they wouldn’t be fueling the death-dealing military-industrial complex of the West or promoting its usurious banking system.
Regarding men and women, you are confused about this matter because of your skewed notions of justice. Men are RAMPANTLY discriminated against on the basis of their gender in the secular regimes. Consequently, we see boys and men discriminated against merely on the basis of their sex in the areas of schooling, scholarships, the military, sports, housing, employment and the workplace, family law, etc. Similarly, the warped secular regimes deem it a sign of “progress” if the woman wears less and less clothing–however, if she takes off a little more clothing (clothing that a man is NOT required to wear), then she goes to jail. Secularism has no clear standards–for its values shift from day to day based on nothing other than people’s (or their masters’) base inclinations. Your overseers are trying to engineer “gender equality” where none exists (and they, and you and i know that none exists).
In summary, our first priority is to believe correctly in the Eternal Perfect One, Allah, Who created us. And we are obligated to abide by Allah’s Sacred Law, as revealed to Prophet Muhammad, for our benefit in this world and the one to come.
“Nothing is worthy of worship except Allah. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”
With Allah is the success.
I always viewed Swarthmoor as troll. No name , No image no city where he lives. Very little is known about this “Swarthmoor” other his view, his implication that he knows what is Islam is and anybody who disagrees with his view is wrong.
However what he wrote is most concrete,succinctly stated explanation of what God is. That should be taught in every “islamic” school and every western university where “Islamic” studies is taught!!
I gonna have to check out swarthmoor ’s audios and Insha Allah there as good as what he wrote.
Swathmoor:
If an individual drops dead on the commode while passing his bowels, God is capable of seeing that. No where on this planet is closed off to the all seeing eyes of the Creator.
Let me tell you, women who often have more alilments than men in a lifetime, do a lot of praying on the commode during moments of pain, illness and even suffering.
The All Compassionate God is not going to say, “I cannot listen to Mary’s prayers because she is in the toilet”. God is not like that.
The God who created all our body parts is not ashamed or unfamiliar with us and God understands and is capable of feeling compassion for us wherever we suffer.There is no limitation for where God can go. God does not dwell in the sewage or in evil places but God is capable of seeing them.
Or do you believe evil people can hide from God? God’s eyes see everything.
God’s sensibilities are not similar to ours.
I have said before, humans are in kindergarten regarding full comprehension God.But we can use our faith, along with the knowledge of the Creator and our human imagination to at least understand sometimes.
Stop assuming that everyone identifies with the Koran. I still don’t believe that Muhamad was sent from God because the Holy Scriptures never mentioned him.
Do you really believe that men in the Western world are discrimunated ? I think you are lying to yourself.
As a Christian woman, I dress pretty modestly without covering my face.The average woman in the western world dress modestly. Men are supposed to learn to respect women and have self control.Period. Muslim men living in the West who can’t stand the sight of a woman who is unveiled should move to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc.
You do not have to live in a society with women who are free to dress how they want.
It would be interested to see Muslim men and women who are capable of transcending their world and becoming universal in their outreach. I have yet to see that. You Muslims have your hands full.
With Allah is the success? What success?
Gianella,
I already said that God KNOWS EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. God is the Creator of everything–hence, God knows everything. Nothing is absent from God’s Knowledge. God hears and sees all things–without the occupation of space/place. You, on the other hand, said that God is EVERYWHERE. I was showing you that pantheism is a vulgar creed.
Regarding the Qur’an, i am not using it as the basis of my reference in this discussion. I am using simple rational and historical proofs to demonstrate that you are wrong and inconsistent. You on the other hand keep referring to the Bible as “Holy Scripture,” when i (and others) have already demonstrated SEVERAL TIMES that the Bible is a fraud. Quoting the Bible does not prove anything (other than its own contradictions and its contradiction with Christianity–which make the Bible stand as a proof against itself).
Regarding discrimination against men in the West, it is obvious to anyone not infected by so-called Political Correctness. If a man wishes to play in the WNBA–even though he may have superior skills to all the women therein, he will be deprived of such a potential livelihood SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF HIS GENDER. (And if a male reporter wished to do interviews in the WNBA locker room (a scary sight, i admit), he would not be allowed, but female reporters are allowed into male locker rooms–by law.) Similar discrimination can be seen in the case of thousands of male athletes who are denied athletic scholarships merely because they happen to be men.
If my (hypothetical) son wanted to join the local girls’ softball team (to prove the point regarding the absurdity of “equality”), he would be forbidden to do so, and he’d be denied with no legal redress. He’d also be portrayed in the media as “weak”, a “freak,” a “sissy,” etc. On the other hand, if your daughter wanted to play on the boys’ baseball team, she’d be allowed to–and can sue regarding sexual discrimination if they denied her… or even if she was on the team and was treated in what she perceived as being “biased”. And, of course, she would be portrayed as a pitiful victim and a “brave hero who stands up against the alleged evils sexual discrimination.
Similarly, dozens of FEMALE ONLY schools and colleges remain. Shoot, even the driving schools discriminate against men:
http://www.femaledrivingschool.co.uk/
And chances are the school only hires female instructors.
Need we talk about employment where men are given the heavy labor job assignments (that is, the HARD JOBS) in places, like warehouses, UPS/FedEx, Home Depot and the women do comparative light (and easy) labor assignments FOR THE SAME PAY? What about the military? Women do MISERABLY–to the point that there is one set of standards for men and one for women… but women get equal pay and equal benefits. And we DEFINTELY don’t want to talk about family law and how men are discriminated in the court system. I believe, Gianella, i have proven that discrimination against men is rampant in the West.
Regarding men having sexual self-control–they SHOULD have it, and in Islam, the man is OBLIGATED to lower his gaze and not look lustfully. At the same time, there is the undeniable nature of men (as is the undeniable nature of women). If you doubt me, perhaps you can do a search on how many BILLIONS of dollars is generated from pornography on the web. That (pornography) and its popularity is a pretty good indicator of how people’s mothers, daughters, and sisters are “respected” and “honored” in the West. Shoot, pornography is even protected as a so-called “right” to humiliate and degrade women… in the name of “art” and “freedom of expression” (and gittin’ paid).
Lastly, if you have ever been to the beach–or seen pictures of the beach, you will see how “modestly dressed” the majority of the women are. As a matter of fact, if women dressed that way at the beach 100 years ago in the US, they’d be arrested. Furthermore, women are NOT allowed to dress anyway they want. To the contrary, there are DIFFERENT dress codes for women than men, and if the women do not abide by those dress codes (that men are not required to), then THE WOMEN GO TO JAIL. So much for “equal treatment” under the law.
You said I was ranting.Your last post sounded like a rant.
At least you should have concluded that in the West both men and women are discriminated. You forgot that men and women do not earn the same salary in many professions .And that women earn less than men.
I know you as a Muslim will say that women are not capable,and don’t deserve to earn the same amount as men. Today,there are more women attending universities all over the planet. There is discrimination in the West because mankind is naturally unfair.
But there is also more discrimination in the Muslim world against women and even men. This discrimination against women is what has kept Muslim society backward and open to oppression from within and without. In Muslim society,only men can teach boys. That is discrimination against women.
If I said God is everywhere, I meant he has acces to everything that takes place.
Don’t go to the beaches and don’t look at pornography.That is the only way to deal with those situations.
Once again, you assume that everyone views the Koran as accurate. You want to pick and choose aspects of the Bible that you agree with.
How do we know that the Koran is accurate when no part of the Bible,not even the accurate part mentions it?
Remember, you accepted Abraham, Moses and many more as your prophets,the Bible would have at least mentioned Muhamad .
The answer cannot be, “we are correct”.
You have to prove that the Koran is corect.
As far as I’am concerned the same way you claimed the Bible is fraud, I think the Koran is also fraud and man made.
Ironically and conveniently, you have sealed things by saying your message is the last one.
You view Christ as a prophet but you ignore his teachings.
The Bible also predicted Christ redemptive actions as the only way to save mankind.
Your Koran is all together another message.
Altogether,the message of the Koran does not appear to be coming from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel).
Gianella, I think you argue well. I have been wondering why muslims claim such perfection and justice. It is ridiculous to live in the West and praise the “Islamic paradises”.
Islam, the Koran, are to me are just old arab things. I have seen Islam described as “Mohammad-centric arab imperialism.” Arabic is supposed to be some magical language, one takes an arab name, dresses in old arab gear…and like other utopian schemes and theocracies, it paralyzes thought and kills dissenters.
Eliza:
I view Islam as more sinister. I view Islam as evil foces trying to destroy God’s plan.
First they did not want to accept Isaac because they believed it should have been Ishmael, and the explanation is that Isaac is the first son and therefore because God did not choose him,it is racism.
Mankind may be racist, but can the God of Creation be racist if he chooses who he wants to?Not at all.
It is amazing how they claimed the Bible is fraud, but they also need it to prove themselves, because they don’t have a leg to stand on.
Then they have blotted out God’s full message of redemption.The entire story of the Bible is God preparing mankind for redemption.
.
The followers of Islam cannot get away from the fact that the promise came through the line of Isaac.
You see how they have created another story through the line of Ismael.
We must all be careful of being jealous.
Who is the prince of jealousy?
Who was privy to all the information from throughout the beginning of the Creation?
Yes, the message of Islam may be submission or obedience to God. But that is only part of the Biblical story, because God, from the very beginning when Adam and Eve disobeyed, God had willed within the Creation, a way or plan of redeeming us(mankind) back into his care.
This path cannot entail rituals or traditions. It is not about turning east to worship or going to Mecca. That is not enough. We are not like God, we are too far removed from God’s holiness. Here you have men, (Muslims) who believe thay are so superior, that they can get close to a Supreme God with rituals.
If Mecca was not important to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it is also not important to any follower of The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
How did this place just prop up as an important place later on?
Yes, take an Arabic names and run around greeting everyone in Arabic is just absurd.
I guess we are all supposed to become like the Arabs. The only thing they don’t realize is that they are not that impressive to everyone. They are only as impressive as every ethnic or national group on the planet. And with God’s help and love, some of us are happy with who we are.
The muezzin bleeping all throughout the day ,five times telling people they should pray.
A Creator who is all powerful and knows he is the only being, does not need anyone forcing people to come to him.
Also they have forgotten that force was used as a method to get many to convert to Islam.
They want us all to believe that women in Islam are much better off than women anywhere else. I have news for them. If I were to live in a society governed by them, I am better off dead.
As a child of God, my life and existence belongs to God and not to men. I will not settle for second class spirituality.And I don’t believe God expects that for any of us.
They have not understood the role of women. God created females because he knew men could not handled being alone.
Adam was the first, and he walked in Paradise alone, and his loneliness fretted God. The Creator was able to see that Adam alone was not happy. God saw that Adam needed a helper or a mate. And God created Eve.
Women were not created to be subjugated by men.
Spiritually, women are much closer to God than men. Women are forgiving,caring,loving,giving and nurturing.
The Muslim agenda is to conquer the world. But that is not the agenda of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel). God has never used his force to conquer anyone. God uses his force to defend and protect us but not as a way of conquering us. God gave us free will.
Ancient Israel as a nation was taken out of Egypt by God and giving their own land. God did not conquer Egypt for the Isrealites. That is not God’s way.
Muslims will have to fight God before they reach their purpose to install sharia law throughout the land. And God will always win.
Gianella,
You are the one who said that I was lying to myself regarding discrimination against men in the West. I proved that there is discrimination against men–and that there is plenty of it. I proved you wrong, and that was my obective–to demonstrate that you don’t know what you are talking about. Furthermore, i am not arguing that sexual discrimination is a bad thing (nor do feminists consider it a bad thing, for that matter). However, what is bad is HYPOCRISY–that is, when one claims one thing but believes/does the opposite.
Regarding women in the workforce, if anything, it usually WEAKENS the efficiency of a business, for it has to accomodate the needs of the weaker sex. Do you think the San Diego Chargers would be a better or worse football team if they had to have female players on the field a certain percentage of the time? Do you think the US Marines has become a stronger fighting force because women are enlisted in greater numbers? Are you going to claim that being off for weeks at a time because of maternity leave–or not going to work several days a month because the kids are sick increases the efficiency of a business? You’d be hard pressed to name an area of business that has become better because of the growing presence of women. Simply ask yourself how much money/time business lose in false sexual dscrimination/harrassment cases? You can also yourself how many families have been destroyed because of affairs in the office.
Islamic societies today are not relatively backwards (in the technological/economic sense) because there are comparatively fewer women are in the workforce. Islamic societies are realtively backwards because of a general ignorance and lack of implementation of the Religion. Excelling in the areas of econmics and technology are RELIGIOUS OBLIGATIONS… and if you didn’t know, so is THE EDUCATION OF WOMEN!!! (Also, your comment about only men can teach boys is WRONG. I worked at a Muslim school in the Middle East–i assure you that the women taught boys there… and that was not an anamoly or anything that opposes the Sacred Law.)
Regarding the beaches and the porno thing, your advice is sound, but off topic. YOU said that Western women are generally dressed “modestly” and are more “respected”–well, i again, showed you that you do not know what you are talking about.
Regarding the Bible, you are all over the road. Let’s go thru this step by step.
1. The earliest Biblical manuscripts (what could approximate alleged “originals”) do not exist.
2. As Origen said of the Book of Hebrews “God alone knows who wrote it.” No one (among the humans) knows who actually wrote the books of the Bible.
3. The oldest New Testaments (that is, fragments of pages) are in GREEK–Jesus taught his followers in Syriac (Aramaic). No one knows WHO TRANSLATED those sayings that constitute the oldest New Testaments into Greek.
4. The Bible HAS BEEN CHANGED even in more recent centuries, such as the “now you see it, now you don’t” verse alleging the “proof” for the so-called trinity in 1 John 5:7.
5. And worst of all, the Bible ascribes contradictory and non-befitting attributes to God. The Bible says that “God does not change” (Malachi 3:6)–which is true! But then the Bible says God BECAME sad, and that God RESTED/WALKED/BECAME LIKE A DRUNK, ad nauseum. All such attributes do not befit the One Perfect Eternal Lord of the Universe.
This is enough for the reasonable person to realize that the Bible cannot be the Holy Revelation of the Creator. So even if the Bible said explicitly and unambiguously that Muhammad is the Prophet of God, it would not stand as a proof, for the Bible is NOT RELIABLE. (Also, there are a few Biblical verses that can be interpreted to demonstrate the Bible’s foretelling of Prophet Muhammad, but that is another topic.)
With the above said, you can see the fallacious reasoning you are employing in your critique of the Qur’an. The Bible cannot be used as a standard to judge the Qur’an. The Qur’an stands on its own merits, as the Bible crumbles upon its own demerits. First, one can mention the Qur’an’s miraculous inimitability and the ease in one’s memorization thereof. Secondly, one can mention the prophesy therein. And, of course, the Qur’an informs humanity about THE TRUTH IN GOD. Furthermore, the Qur’an was conveyed to humanity from a genuine Prophet of God, who proved his prophethood by the hundreds of miracles that he (Prophet Muhammad sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) performed. And, as it is known, the Qur’an has not been changed. This is how we know the Qur’an is genuine Divine Revelation, and this is how we know about Who is God, God’s Prophets, and God’s Sacred Law.
With Allah is the success.
swarthmoor.wordpress.com
Swathmoor:
I said that discrimination is a human thing and it exits everywhere even in Muslim societies.
I mentioned in secular societies, at least we can appealed unfair decisions.
Because you said the Koran has not changed, that to me is not enough to accept that Muhamad is God’s prophet. The main books of the Bible are still there. You have taken Abraham and the prophets and Ismael.
Leave Ishmael out since he is part of the Holy Bible. But you want to have your cake and eat it too.
You need the story of Ishmael and the prophets for credibility because you don’t have a leg to stand on.
It is amazing how you are worrying about who translated the Bible.Obviously, you liked the part that mentioned Ismael.What makes Muhamad genuine? I know the answer: He was an Arab.
Let us end this discussion, because you have not gotten it.
I am not interested in sports and I am sure that it is not God’s main concern.
You seemed like all Muslim men, to be solely preocuppied with the male species.What a fool of you to believe that women working weaken the business. force.Now only men work well. I can see that you are an ignorant man.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has feelings. Who do you worship? No wonder you people lack deliverance.Don’t confuse allegories with realities. When the Bible says God was sad, it doesn’t imply weakness.
Please spare me the Arabic wagawagasalam.
Islam is not God’s way. Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel)
Show me good people coming from the Muslim world who are capable of transcending their culture into a universal outreach.
Until then, Islam will only remain as a religion whose people tried to give meaning to their culture and explain their existence by creating their own God and foolishly trying to mimic the God of Ancient Israel who they envied profoundly.
May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob enlighten and bless you.
Gianella,
You’re starting to sound, if you don’t mind me saying, a “little touched.” I say that for the numerous non sequitirs in your posts. Your conclusions simpy can’t be drawn from the assertions you are making. Let’s start with the term “discrimination.” I don’t know what you understand from it, but “discrimination” is not a bad word. It is a neutral word–it can be GOOD TO DISCRIMINATE. And discriminating between women and men is a GOOD THING, for women and men are different… very different.
First you say that men are not discriminated against in America (you actually say that i am lying to myself for asserting the opposite). I bring you ample evidence to the contrary in the area of sports (as well as, the military, business, and in education). Then instead of acknowledging you don’t know what you are talking about, you say that sports do not matter to you. But that’s not the point. The point is that discrimination against men exists–in spite of your claiming otherwise. (And given that BILLIONS are spent on professional sports annually, professional sports mean a whole lot to a whole lot of people.)
Gianella, you are going to be hard pressed to prove that the onslaught of women in the workplace has actually made American businesses better in the past 40 years. Yes, a lot of businesses had to pay the cost of restructuring their organizations to accomodate women, and it’s caused a lot of men to lose or miss out on jobs, and it’s generated A LOT MORE TAX REVENUE, so instead of being home and raising the kids, the women can go work for the government 3-4 months of the year. Also this onslaught has helped your mortal enemies in their culture war against Christian society by destroying your family structure, but it hasn’t made American businesses more competitive. If you want to see the consequence of a government sponsored female “empowerment” project, i suggest you drive thru the nearest inner city black ghetto on a hot summer Saturday night.
If you REread my post, you will see that i did not say that the proof that the Qur’an is Divine Revelation simply because it has not been changed. I said that it is Divine Revelation AND it has not been changed. I mentioned other proofs to demonstrate that it is Divine, such as, its inimitability and that it was revealed unto a genuine Prophet of God. I didn’t mention anything about the fact the Prophet was an Arab that this proves he is a Prophet. There were false Arab prophets, as well as, genuine ones.
Regarding Ishmael, again, that is not the focus of my argument. Yes, God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his ONLY son–his ONLY son at the time could not have been Isaac, but that is not the proof for Prophet Muhammad’s prophethood. The hundreds of MIRACLES the Prophet Muhammad performed are the proof for his Prophethood. (Incidentally, one of the prophetic miracles is that the Prophet foretold 1,400 years ago that one of the signs of the coming of the Judgment Day is that it would become increasingly difficult to distinguish the men from the women.)
And most importantly, the Prophet Muhammad liberated humanity (that is, those who accepted the Truth) from the shackles of false worship by informing people about the genuine belief in God:
There is One Perfect Eternal Creator of the Universe, Who is the Creator of everything and absolutely does not need or resemble anything.
Allah alone deserves to be worshipped–not nature, not statues, not animals, not humans. God is not of space or time, for space and time were not, but God was. God does not transform and become an infant. God does not become a murder victim. God is Perfect and does not change. Allah is the Creator–all else is a creation. It is the belief in One Perfect Eternal God that is the core distinction between Islam and the false doctrines of Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Simply put: WORSHIP THE PERFECT CREATOR–not the imperfect creations.
Regarding the Bible, the fact is the Christians are claiming divine authority from a book that HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN CHANGED, and its authorship is UNKNOWN. Add to that, the various Christian sects have DIFFERENT VERSIONS (as in different numbers of books) of their Bibles. This is enough for any person capable of reasoning to see that the Bible cannot be the “Word of God.” It is a HUMAN FABRICATION put together my numerous ANONYMOUS MEN (and it is safe to say that they were certainly almost all, if not exclusively, MEN.)
Lastly, Allah is the God of the Universe. So, Allah is the Lord of all people and all Prophets of all times. As Muslims, we love all the Prophets–whether they are Israelite Prophets, such as, Moses and Joshua, or Arab Prophets, such as, Saalih and Muhammad, or other than that, such as, Abraham and Enoch. We do not accept some Prophets and reject others–much less reject Prophets on the basis of their ethnicity or land of origin.
Gianella, you’ve heard more than enough. Now you need to save yourself, for you don’t want to find yourself guilty of false-worship when the Angel of Death comes to seize your soul.
“Nothing is worthy of worship except Allah. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
With Allah is the succes.
I don’t think any human has the power to catch the words of God perfectly, humanity is too small. God does not write or dictate books, God is too big. God is universal. Allah is an arab. The Koran is an arabian compilation.
If the muslims and the ME exhibited anything resembling success, purity, or brilliance maybe the rest of us would have more respect for them, and it.
This is why I say that they have their hands full.
Muslims have not proven at all that their prophet, beliefs, or god are rightfully authentic.
Since they claimed their prophet received the last message from God himself, the onus is now on them to prove to the entire Creation that they worship the one of Ancient Days, the Holy of Holiness, the Universal Supreme Creator.
They are already confused in how they describe their god.They have a problem with,” he occupies no place or space”.
If he occupies no space, he does not exist.
The Creator does occupy space. If their mind cannot conceive or understand that, then they should shut up.
Every entity within the Creation that exists, occupies space. From the tinyest cell to the mighty wind, all created by God.
They are still in the woods with their pagan beliefs.
As for the women because they are invisible ,hidden behind the veil and subjugated to a second hand or second class spirituality, I will leave them alone; but with the men, all I see is ignorance self righteousness,intolerance,backwardness,foolishness,self absorbtion, selfishness,misogyny, crazyness , and even criminality.
The Muslism world is a sad miserable place.They are as wicked as everybody, but the only thing is that they cannot see their wickedness.
Over there,women are bought, raped and abused just because the Koran says women are to be submissive to men.They have the nerve to criticize the over sexualized Secular Western society.
They lack compassion towards non- Muslims living among them. They discriminate against Blacks. They even call Blacks “abeed”(slave). Slavery is legal and condoned.
Swarthmoor is worrying about Western women working and the Western family falling apart.
Muslim women do not work and Muslim men are still criminals.The suicide bomber a product of the Muslim confusion and hatred is a criminal.
Look at the irony, in most western countries, Muslims can live and build mosques.
Can a Jew, a Christian, a Buddhist or any other denomination build a church, temple, synagogue or any religious place of worship in the heart of the Muslim world?
Who is more tolerant, just, compassionate, loving and fair?
Are Muslims ready for universality( embracing people outside of the Muslim world wholeheartedly and fraternally)? I doubt it.
The ball is in their court and like everyone, if they don’t change, it will remain there until “Thy kingdom come…”
Gianella,
I already said that the proof for Prophet Muhammad’s prophethood is the HUNDREDS of miracles he performed to demonstrate that he was a genuine Prophet. Furthermore, he came with an INTELLECTUALLY IRREFUTABLE belief in the Creator.
GOD EXISTS WITHOUT BEING IN A PLACE
The Argument from Eternality
God is the Creator. Everything else is a creation. Place is not God. Place is something other than God; ergo, God created place. God was and place was not. After God created place, God did not transform and and materialize in a place.
The Argument from Transcendence (i.e., absolute freedom from need)
A body, by its very nature, is dependent upon a given amount of volume for its existence. You and i, as we are, cannot fit entirely inside of a one liter container. We are in need of space. God is Perfect. God does not need anything. God does not need space.
The Argument from Absolute Incomparability
God is ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT FROM THE CREATIONS. The creations, afterall, have a start. God does not have a start. The Eternal One and the creations are NOT AT ALL similar to each other. As you said:
“Every entity within the Creation that exists, occupies space.”
That’s VERY true!!! The occupation of space is something that the CREATIONS share in common with each other… but God does not resemble the creations. God is not a spatial entity. It is the belief of the pagans that God is a body (either a material or spiritual body). It is the pagans who pray to something in a location. Muslims do not have the belief of the pagans. The Muslims pray to the One Who CREATED all bodies and created all locations–and does not resemble anything with a body or a location. God is not like anything.
ON WOMEN
Again, Gianella, you are confused. The Bible is not a work of so-called feminist liberation theology. The Bible CLEARLY RELEGATES women to an inferior status. Let me give you a few examples. From Genesis it says about Lady Eve:
“And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”–Genesis 3:16
I can go thru NUMEROUS Old Testament verses about the legal status of women–both free women and concubines. No one after reading the Bible is going to think that the Bible preaches “equality” among the sexes. And with that said, according to Christians, Jesus FOLLOWED THE OLD TESTAMENT for most of his time on earth. Furthermore, the Bible says that Jesus did not come to abolish the Old Testament law, but to fulfill it.
Anyway, i know that the Christians like to pick and choose from the OT, so here’s one from the New Testament:
“Let the woman learn in silence WITH ALL SUBECTION. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1 Tim. 2:11-14
Oh, but what do you know? There’s more. The Bible says:
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife….” Ephesians 5:22
And:
I Corinthians 11:8-9 KJV
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
And:
I Corinthians 14:34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Now here is what Tom Aquinas said (he is one of THE authorities of traditional Christians):
“As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power….” Summa Theologica
Regarding women in Western societies, one of the credos of secular global consumerism is the (alleged) equality of the sexes… But, Gianella, Western society is FILLED with all sorts of gender specific/gender discriminatory laws. So the West only promises hypocrisy and an inability to determine what it’s values are. Right and wrong is determined by God–not human desires and whims. God knows about us better than we know ourselves, and the one who submits to God and accepts God’s Sacred Law will be a winner in this world and the Hereafter.
With Allah is the success.
Gianella,
Brother Swarh Moor speaks the truth.
Gianella you said in your post: Every entity within the creation that exists, occupies space.
What you are not realizing is that God is the creator not the creation. God was not created. God was before the creations. God was and place was not. There was no light, darkness, place, or time. Now that is something your mind cannot not conceive: no light, darkness, place, or time. Anything the mind can imagine God is different from that. God created the universe and willed for the existance of time.
Gianella you should look at our position with an open mind. You need to accept the truth.
The belief that Allah, ta^ala, exists without a place is the creed of the Messenger of Allah r, the Companions, and those who graciously followed them, and it shall so be until the Day of Judgment. The proof of this precious statement is what Allah said in the Qur’an, in Surat ash-Shura, ayah 11:
قال الله تعالى: )لَيْسَ كمثلهِ شىءٌ وهوَ السَّميعُ البصيرُ( [سورة الشورى]
which means: <> This ayah absolutely clears Allah of resembling the creations. It comprises that Allah, ta^ala, is absolutely different from the creations in the Self, Attributes, and Actions. Hence, it shows that Allah, ta^ala, exists without a place, because whatever exists in a place is, by nature, i.e., composed of particles, i.e., it is a body, occupying a space. Allah, ta^ala, is clear of occupying spaces.
Al-Bukhariyy, al-Bayhaqiyy and Ibnul-Jarud related that the Messenger of Allah, r, said:
روى البخارىُّ والبيهقىُّ وابنُ الجارود أن رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:
“كان الله ولم يَكُنْ شَىءٌ غَيْرُهُ”.
which means: <> This hadith proves that only Allah existed without a beginning, i.e., before creating any of the creation. There was nothing with Allah: no place, no space, no sky, no Earth, no light, and no darkness. It is determined in the rules of the Religion and the judgments of the sound mind that Allah, the Exalted, does not change. Hence, it is impossible that after having been existing without a place, Allah will change and dwell in a place, because this is a development. The development is a sign of needing others, and the one who needs others is not God.
Although the Creator is the fatherof Creation, he also occupies space.
No wonder, you Muslim lack spirituality and you feel a need to depend on rituals ; your god does not really exist.
Because we are not able to see and fathom God, does not mean that he does not occupy space.
I mentioned the wind and cells, to show that although some things may appear invisible they still occupy space.
Let me play devil advocate with you.
God inhabits my heart, mind,soul,life and entire being, etc…
Please learn to understand the difference between allegories, literal,symbols and realities.
Having a relationship with God also involves having a grand heavenly imagination.
This is were spirituality comes in.
You Muslims are really daft spiritually.
If we accord power to men and not to women, we all succumb and die spiritually.
A spiritual death is the worst thing for a human being.
I have stories to tell, that I know with all your rituals many of you would never understand.
Rituals do not bring us close to God.
Today, they just passed a law in Afghanistan prohibiting girls and women from doing a whole lot of things.
Who wants to be near barbaric people who have no love and respect for half of humanity because they are far away from a loving and caring just God?
The ball is in your court.
You have all the time in the world to live and show :
“Let your light shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in Heaven.
Gianella,
Keep in mind, Gianella, that you have no proofs for what you are saying. You are simply speaking from your desires and opinions. Now, let’s try this again:
There was no space, but there was a God. God is not a space. Everything that exists–other than God–is created by God. God brought the universe–AND THE SPACE IT OCCUPIES–into being. God did not become inside a space after God created space. God is not in Heaven; afterall, God created Heaven and is not contained by the creations, for containment, size, directions, and the like are properties of bodies. God is not a body. God does not change, for all changes have a start. God does not have a start.
God does not “inhabit” the hearts. God created the hearts. God was before the hearts were. Muslims LOVE and REMEMBER God with their hearts by glorifying God, reflecting on the Oneness and Perfection of God, and not comparing God to the creations. We obviously do not try to imagine God, for God is Unique and unimaginable.
ON RITUALS
The Bible says:
“Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed” (Mark 1:35)
“But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed” (Luke 5:16)
“Going a little farther, he [allegedly Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed.” (Matthew 26:39) That is, Jesus prostrated, as do the Muslims.
Jesus performed ritual prayer as did the Prophets of the Old Testament. Anyone who knows about the Bible would be familiar with the extensive rituals commanded therein.
ON AFGHANISTAN
The US already has extensive gender discriminatory laws on the books. Perhaps, the Afghanis are trying to establish a gender discriminatory society, like the US. Now, from an Islamic perspective, what (many of) the Afghanis/Taliban are doing opposes what Allah revealed. Ignorant people do ignorant things that are indefensible Islamically. My advice to them is to FEAR ALLAH and LEARN THE RELIGION before they sink deeper and deeper into sin!!! May Allah help us and them.
With Allah is the success.
swarthmoor.wordpress.com
Prayers and fasting are not rituals. Believers are supposed to pray fervently without ever seizing to draw close to God.
Who said space as in the Milky Way or Andromeda Nebula?You seemed too rigid and unimaginative. Of course God has no beginning.
God is the Alpha and the Omega. You seemed hard to comprehend because your relationship with words is very literal.
Who is imagining God. You obviously don’t know where God dwells, all you know to say is that God has no body and parts.
You cannot get away from your physical self. I have always considered Islam to be a very physical religion. It is not a spiritual religion. Our relationship with God has to take on a spiritual aspect, or else we remain thinking like human beings and not being able to understand God.
Why are you quoting the Bible, if it is not accurate?
Of course God cannot inhabit my heart. I cannot inhabit anyone’s heart and so do you. You should have understood what I meant.
I want you to get away from the literary way of looking at things but you seemed incapable.
The US has gender discriminatory laws? Do you really believe that?
Now, if the Afghans are trying to imitate the Americans, then things are supposed to be looking up over there.
Do you really believe that things are that bad in the US in comparison to Muslim countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan,Syria,Iran,Mauritania,Somalia, etc. .
The entire Muslim world is replete with gender discriminatory and unjust laws .
At least women in the US are free.
I can just imagine all of you dismissing the atrocities againt dark skinned people in Sudan and Darfur as Western propaganda.
Swarthmoor, have you ever been to Saudi Arabia?Did they discriminate against you in the land of Muhamad?
Now, you tell me what kind of laws those infamous Saudis, the guardians and custodians of Mecca have?
Are you wishing your Allah success?Do you believe there is a competition going on? God has no need to compete.The God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob is the only God.
God has already won because God cannot lose. From the very beginning, God has willed how the Creation should be.
Contrary to what many of you think, I and many other Christians care about the well being of everyone, including Muslims.
May God illuminate and watch over you .
Gianella,
ON WOMEN IN AMERICA
Lets take a look at whats going on in America. The women are like animals. Many of them walk around barely dressed. They have multiple sex partners. America is the place were many children are born out of wedlock. When you let women get to much power chaos is the result. America is the proof of that. If this were an islamic country following the rules of the religion, the women would be treated better. You would not turn on the TV and see women shaking their tail. You would not have all these kids growing up not knowing who their father is. Men would be trying to get themselves together financially so they could get married and support family. All of this fornicating would not be going on. The women would not be wearing all of these revealing clothes trying to intice the men.The women would be properly covered. This protects the men and women.
Gianella, the problem is you don’t know your place. Men and women are not equal. Even the bible recongnizes this. I am not using the bible as a proof for Islam. I am using it to show that you just want to follow your own inclinations.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 clearly states:
11 “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (King James Version)
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
This is what the bible teaches. You do not want to follow that. You want to follow your own inclinations.
I am not using the bible as a proof for my position. But as a proof against your positon. By showing that you do not follow it.
Okay, Gianella,
I’m gonna wind this down with you.
POINT 1
You must be trying to pull my leg–i am not a “literalist.” Nonetheless, one can not have the “Humpty-Dumpty” approach to words. That is, words don’t mean whatever YOU want them to mean. Words have meanings.
God was and there was no space. God does not “dwell” anywhere, for God exists without a “where.” “Wheres” apply to the creations–and not the Creator of the creations. The bottomline is that the Christians resemble God to the creations. Hence, they do not worship God; they merely pray to someone (or thing) they THINK is God.
POINT 2
I quoted the Bible to demonstrate that YOU don’t have a consistent set of values. You are confused. Your values are based upon late 20th/early21st century secular corporate consumerism–with some bastardized elements of Christian principles. Your values are not Biblical. And your values were not in vogue 100 years ago–and they certainly would not have been in vogue in Palestine among the Israelites 2,000 years ago.
POINT 3
The US has MANY gender discriminatory laws. If a man decides to use the public female restroom, he can BE ARRESTED–merely on the basis of his gender. Not only that, he will be placed in a gender segregated, and MORE DANGEROUS, jail. I cannot fathom how this can be justified if the two sexes are suppose to be equal and deserving of equal treatment under the law… unless… folks are just talking out of their necks and DON’T BELIEVE IN GENDER EQUALITY.
Women are NOT FREE in the West. People (of both genders) have to OBEY THE LAW. Not only that, women have clothing restrictions placed on them that are not upon the men. Regardless of how hot it gets, women are still required to veil their breast (are at least part of them) in public. Men have no such restriction. There is no freedom and there is no “equality.”
Gianella, my point is not to discuss which countries have more gender discriminatory laws. My point is to DEMONSTRATE THE HYPOCRISY. If gender discrimination is bad, then it is categorically bad. If it is not categorically bad, then the discrimination MUST BE BASED UPON SOME SORT OF STANDARD. The secularists, however, HAVE NO STANDARD. Their values vary from week to week. What’s good today, becomes evil and wicked tomorrow. Consequently, one cannot say that something is “bad” if one doesn’t have a valid frame of reference.
In summary, the Christians have no argument against Islam and the position of women. The Bible is FILLED with laws that relegate women to a lesser social/legal/spiritual status. It is Islam that gave women legal rights that were not granted according to the Bible. The secularists have no argument, for they, as much as they proclaim to believe in “gender-equality,” DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT (much less practice it). They hypocritically condemn Islam for that which they do not practice. And that’s besides the fact of the war upon the American family, the general whorification of the American woman, and her ruthless exploitation in the media by secular corporate consumerism.
POINT 4
Never been to Saudi. Lived in a neighboring nation for a year, however. Yes, i saw racial/ethnic discrimination there. And i see racial/ethnic discrimination here. Is it allowed in Islam to hate a Muslim for his or her skin complexion or ethnicity? No. However, as i said, when you have ignorant people who do not learn/practice their Religion, they are bound to do stupid things.
POINT 5
Saudi Arabia is currently the “WOT” (Wahhabi Occupied Territories). The Saudis do a lot of things that violate Islamic Law: they allow usurious banks in their country. They fuel the Western military industrial complex (literarly). They have hotels that sell alcohol. They prohibit women from driving. They have different laws that apply to Saudis than apply to non-residents. They claim that women must cover their faces in public. Worst of all, the Wahhabis have a pagan belief, like the Jews/Christians. They believe Allah is some sort of body. The Saudi-Wahhabi regime doesn’t remotely represent Islam.
LASTLY
God does not compete with anything. Allah is the CREATOR of everything and their actions. What is meant by “with Allah is the success,” is that the one who obeys Allah, then that person will be successful in this life and in the everlasting life to come. I wish that for all the people here. I wish it for the Muslims to live and die on Islam, and that the non-Muslims would save themselves by embracing Islam by saying/believing:
NOTHING IS WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH. MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH.
With Allah is the success.
swarthmoor.wordpress.com
Swathmoor:
There is a good article regarding what I have been referring to in today’s thursday April 23rd Op Ed section of the New York Times.
The author of the article is Nicholas D. Kristoff. Please check it out.
Gianella
Gianella,
I am assuming you are talking about the grapes and virgins article. This has been going on for some time. Nothing new: the same ole same ole–enemies of Islam inventing a new religion that they tell Muslims they should follow. And then you have those oh so pitiful, spineless, quasi-Muslim, Western indoctrinated pseudo-scholar, house negro, apologist, wannabes who will attempt to change Islam anyway they can, so they can get a pat on the head from their (white) kaafir masters.
The fact of the matter is that people who come along 1,400 years after the fact are not going to be more knowledgable about the Religion than the Prophet and his Companions. Again, regarding women, Islam already grants women their rights. Afterall, the only rights a human (of either gender) has are the rights that God has granted them.
The weather is warming up, Gianella, so if you wish to see the results of a government engineered female “empowerment” project, i suggest to you that you drive (alone) thru the nearest black slum (with the windows rolled down) for about an hour on the first hot Friday or Saturday night around 10pm. I betcha won’t. Then ask yourself: “Why?” It is ironic that the US is obsessed with alleged female equality for Muslim women, when the US has MULTIPLE TIMES REJECTED the so-called Equal Rights Ammendment (ERA). Talk about not practicing what you preach!!!
The problem in the Muslim world is the general dearth of traditional Religious amongst the masses of Muslims–both male and female. Because this is the situation, you will find plenty of extremists going over the top in their implementation of what they think is Islamic Law. Ignorance breeds Wahhabism, neo-Talibanism and the likes. And the Rand Institute (pseudo) Muslims only feed the conflagaration, for every Muslim with a shred of knowledge knows that this is something instituted in the ZOGs of the West.
With Allah is the success.
I did not undertand what you were referring to about slums in terms of women.
I do not have to drive through any slum, I can imagine what they are like.
A slum is a slum is a slum.
They all have the same set of things; many people scrambling to exist miserably ,whether it is in Mogadishio, Detroit,Kampala,Kingston, Kenya,Islamabab,Kabul,etc..
This has nothing to do with religion or culture but with government policies.
You are quite good at dismissing Muslims as being so ignorant for not undertanding their religious duties or doing their part.
I wonder what is the real problem.
Most Muslim countries are either failed states or bastions of inefficient patriarchial societies well ingrained in feudalism and beset of intra oppressive traditions.
I have long learned not to blame anyone for my deficiencies. I hope the Muslim world can get to that point. Often the biggest hindrance to growth and development lies within rather than without.
Peace.
G.,
My reference to black American slums is significant, because they are a prime example of “EMPOWERED WOMEN”–who were granted that power because of systematic government policies. As a result of that “empowerment” program, you now have slum streets filled with feral bastard criminals who terrorize their neighborhoods and beyond. Not surprisingly, you don’t want much to do with your “empowered” sisters in the ghetto.
OF PATRIARCHY
G., if you were sincere to this alleged gender equality thing, then you’d be pushing for men to be treated equally under the law here in America. But then, you’re mixed up and confused, so i am not surprised. First of all, patriarchy ABSOLUTELY prevails in the Bible, and patriarchy prevailed in the Laws that Jesus followed when he was on earth. The Bible is NOT a book of feminist (so-called) liberation theology. It is clear that the Bible, and the Church founders relegated women to an INFERIOR STATUS.
Gianella, you do need to step back and realize how mixed up and confused you are. You cannot form any sort of consistent (from any perspective) moral standards because you are trying to reconcile Christianity and the Bible with the values of global secular consumerism. Simply ask yourself, who do you think Jesus was closer to in culture and values: an obedient Muslim Bedouin in the desert of today’s Jordan or some little swine eating, club hopping, I-Pod listening, emasculated metrosexual in Manhattan?
See, G., this is why the Christians have lost the culture war that has been waged upon you by your mortal enemies. Your enemies have turned you out to the point that you have the majority of your youth (i.e., Christian youth) in favor “sodomite-marriages.” Y’all were too stupid to realize that once you allow your enemies to define “normalcy” and “justice” for you, they are going to put you on a looooooong and slippery slope.
You cannot accept the secular agenda of feminism without accepting so-called gay rights. As a matter of fact, many of the feminists who have “engineered” (actually, it was men at the helm of corporate consumerism that pushed the agenda of feminism) are themselves lesbians and other twisted perverted freaks. Of course, your men were too dumb and too excited about having “open season” on their own women to see it coming. Consequently, the Christian kids (talking white Christian, here) are being born at a 30% bastard rate. Your black Christian brethren have a bastard rate of about 70%. Again, you have lost your families and the culture war. Muslims, praise Allah, are still resisting.
OF RESPONSIBLITY
Again, G., you’re mixed up. The Muslims are in the condition they are in because of the collective ignorance and lack of obedience to the Creator. As i have said several times, many of the obections you are making about Muslims are actually not from the practices of the Religion, but from ignorant people.
Secondly, if someone commits identity theft against you and then burns down your home, i’d not rush to blame you for being homeless. If you understood the history of the Islamic world over the past 200 years, in addition to the internal problems (i.e.,ignorance/negligence) the Muslims have suffered from, one cannot ignore the Western agenda to undermine Islam, and perpetuate failed states–or at least states that would always dependent on the West.
We can look at your Christian brothers down in Guatemala, Paraguay, Peru, Columbia, Vanuatu, Lesotho Rwanda, Zaire (or whatever your Christian brethren call it this week), oh, and let’s not forget that “thriving” bastion of Christianity in the American Caribbean: Haiti, and see what is the legacy of Christian colonialism/imperialism on the colonized. With that said, taking responsiblity, Gianella, does not mean ignoring those who wish to harm you.
With Allah is the success.
Swarthmoor:
The terrorists and pirates who are sons of ignorant and oppressed Muslim women are the same and equal to the bastard criminal sons of ghetto women.
You cannot see that criminals are the results of government policies or lack of them. Your sense of logic is too rigid for me.
What is the difference between the so called empowered black ghetto female and the visibly ignorant and oppressed Muslim woman?None.
Let us get this straight, the Western world is not Christian, it is secular.
Yes, there are numerous Christians living in the West but I will never label it as Christian.
The “Muslim world “has nobody else to blame for their woes but themselves.
You should also consider that some Christians living in the West also use your same argument to explain the anomalies in the western world,that Westerners are far removed from God, etc.,etc..
Remember the pastor who blamed the sins of America for September 11?
Remember Falwell and his Moral Majority and the largely Christian based Republican Party?
Christian fundamentalists are in the same basket with folks like you.
I also do not consider the West as an enemy of Islam.
Western society is capitalist in nature and their aim is to make money and to seek joy and happiness on earth. This is undauntedly selfish and not Christian.
At least they are not forcing themselves or their beliefs down the throats of anyone.
Westeners couldn’t care less who thinks like them.
If the entire world does not think like you or worship your god, you blame them call them all sorts of nasty names and want to punish them. You want women hidden behind the veil.
Also you need to undertand that the majority of the world population are Chinese , Indian and Westeners , and these people will never ever convert to Islam.
So it is imperative that Muslims learn to deal with non-Muslims.
I don’t understand how you can see male discrimination in the West. You have to be really very narrow in your scope.
Some of you just want to own and control women.This does happen in the West, but it is not a law and when it does happen, it is considered inmoral and illegal.
The Muslim world is ambivalent, you speak one thing through your mouth then you do a million and a half wicked things and then pretend that you did not do it or that your god permits it.
The Somali pirate who was arrested said he lied about his age and was going to ask Allah to forgive him.
You are always quick to list the ills of Westeners.
Believe me, the list is much longer in Muslims societies.
Western imperialism? The Arabs were just as bad or maybe worst than Europeans.
At least slavery is illegal in the West. I cannot say the same thing about Muslim nations. Black skinned is considered slave (abeed.) among non-black Muslims.
The Arabs propelled the rise of of European chattel slavery.
I do not know how many of you black Americans can look at Arabs as brothers.
One of the reasons why Islam will never spread in the Caribbean and among blacks in other Western countries and even with the majority of blacks in North America is for that same reason.
You see, most blacks in the West do not trust Arabs.
Most of us are not foolish to see them as brothers. If the Arab turns east, I will turn west.
The weakest point or the Aquiles heel of Islam is the very nationality of Muhamad himself.Call me prejudice if you want to. I know I am not.
One last thing.You see many Muslims migrate and live pretty well in Western countries. They move to Europe, Latin America and even tiny Caribbean countries.
If Western society was so bad for Muslims none of you, native or foreign would want to live here.
As a matter of fact , many of you live much better here(you build mosques and prosper) than in any Middle Eastern , Muslim or Arab country.
G.,
Again, you are mixed up and confused. There is a BIG difference between the ghetto woman and the (allegedly–and sometimes actually) oppressed Muslim woman. One, being that the ghetto woman is allegedly “free,” but we all witness the fallout resulting from her alleged “freedom” and “empowerment.” The black ghetto woman embodies the ideal (and logical result) of feminism. Female empowerment hasn’t strengthened the black community–it’s only further undermined it.
On the other hand, Muslim society isn’t in the condition it’s in because Islamic Law and culture protects its women. It’s in the condition it’s in because of the ignorance of the Religion and negligence of Religious duties.
OF THE WEST
It’s enough to look at the flags of many Western states to see their Christian heritage. And their history of massive bloodshed and genocide and subsequent ascent to world power was done in the name of Christianity. The West’s (current–perhaps next week it will be different) value system is a bastardized mixture secular and Christian principles. However, the covert enemies of Christianity are seeing to it that all Christian values are to be effaced from Western society.
OF PIRATES
The pirates are ignoramuses. They attack and terrorize ships even from Muslim nations. They have no justification for doing so. On the other hand, you can also investigate WHY some of those kids have turned to piracy.
Now you say:
“The “Muslim world “has nobody else to blame for their woes but themselves.”
The Moor says:
Uh… can you say I-RAK?!? Uh… what about Palestine?!? Can you say: “Al KAY-YEE-DAH?!? What about Afghanistan?!? What about the Saudi gangster state–and the rest of the outright SECULAR PUPPET regimes running the nations throughout most of the Islamic world? Who has put these people into power–and who has supported these tyrants with BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN AID?
Terrorism is largely a wrongheaded RESPONSE to the injustices that are taking place in Islamic societies. Of course, since many of these people are ignorant and influenced by deviant ideologies, such as, Wahhabism and Ikhwanism, they reciprocate injustice with injustice, and that is condemned in Islam.
ON FORCING BELIEFS
The entire Western secular corporate consumer ethos is about force. If a nation does not open itself up to capitalistic exploitation, then that nation will be attacked with economic sanctions, and if that doesn’t work, then the military comes goose stepping in. Perhaps you have never heard of a device called TELEVISION. Maybe you have never heard of pop-music–or the media, in general. When a handful of folks control the minds of the masses, they don’t have to (apparently) force too much of anything. It’s enough just to manipulate their vacant brains. However, we know that when people do step out of line, force, and plenty of it, is always available.
OF MALE DISCRIMINATION
I’ve already gone down the (partial) list: men are discriminated against BY LAW in public facilities, in athletics, in educational institutions, in the workplace, in prison, in healthcare, in family law, in the military, etc. How can anyone–in their right mind–deny that men are discriminated solely on the basis of their sex?!?
OF AMBIVALENCE (sic?)
I don’t think you will find anywhere from me a statement in which i claim Muslims do not do A LOT of evil. I don’t deny it at all. I spend a lot of time on these blogs CONDEMNING THE EVIL MANY MUSLIMS DO. Sometimes i explain why some Muslims do what they do (like you can do by investigating the situation with the pirates), but i don’t try to excuse it. As i said, much of the mess you and i witness is due to the HORRENDOUS LEVEL OF IGNORANCE about Islam by Muslims themselves (whether in the Muslim countries or elsewhere). And the fact that many Muslims have not learned is in itself an enormity.
OF THE ARABS
Like a lot of folks, many Arabs have a lot of sick tribalistic-nationalistic-racist things going on in their heads. I see a WHOLE LOT of ignorant disobedient Arab Muslims. They openly sell alcohol, music, lottery tickets, swine and carcasses in their stores. I don’t however, judge Islam on what some ignoramuses do. Instead, one LOOKS AT THE BELIEF in God. In spite of the sins these ignorant Arab Muslims may do, AT LEAST THEY DO NOT VIOLATE GOD’S ONENESS AND PERFECTION and they do not reject or slander God’s Prophets. This alone is enough to distinguish the Muslims from the Indian cow/rat worshippers, the Chinese idolators/atheists, and the Western Christians/secularists.
OF SLAVERY
Again you are confused. Right and wrong is not determined by some industrialists or the corporate controlled media. Right and wrong is established by the Creator of humanity, Allah Almighty. The fact that Muslims (of various colors/ethnicities) have captured and sold millions of white European pagans and black African pagans doesn’t conflict with what God revealed.
OF EMIGRATION
In many cases, those migrating to the West have no Religious justification for doing so. Many of them are simply ignorant people bedazzled by this dunya and have loooooong hopes in this fleeting world. Being someone who works largely with second generation Muslim youth, one sees the massive catastrophe that has resulted from a loss of Religious identity and values in immigrant Muslim children in the West. On the other hand, it is required that some Muslims are here in order to teach the Muslims, and to call non-Muslims to Islam. This is a justifiable Religious reason for residing in non-Muslims. If i weren’t here doing what i am doing, then God-willing, i’d certainly be elsewhere.
In summary, the Muslim world is in a mess because of poor leadership and Religious ignorance amongst the masses (and their rulers). At the same time, praise Allah, the stirrings of an Islamic revival are taking place all over the world. And it is taking place at the same time that Western society has clearly entered a decline that’s on the verge of a familial and moral freefall.
With Allah is the success.
You referred to me as confused. Let me lecture you here:
The fact that Arabs still enslave people tells me that they cannot be trusted and are far away from holiness and compassion(Godly characters) towards other human beings.
The fact that they enslave their own black muslim brothers and sisters is a revealing factor that they are beyond human and plain wild.
The Arabs are wild people and I am very happy that most Western blacks are secure enough and not interested in them or their message.
Do you really believe that Arabs or Muslims livng in the West have the good character, credibility and respectability to convert anyone to islam?
If you belive that, I will sell you the Golden Bridge.
Another thing, if life for blacks in the urban areas is dismal, it is because many of you have failed your people miserably.
Yes, you run around awhoring after both foreign gods and people; and many of you have abandoned your duties to community.
Criticize the Chinese and the Indians, they are much better people than the Arabs and Muslims anyday.
You Muslims supposedly worship the only god and you are evil. Where is your credibility?
Stop dreaming of the Arabs converting people to Islam.
You should ask yourselves why the only people converting to Islam are a few black Americans and angry folks.
No other people in the West converts or is interested in Islam.
Certainly not West Indians, White Americans, Latinos,Europeans, Native or Indigenous people nor any of the recent immigrants from the non-Muslim world.
Regarding the Arab/ Israeli conflict, when the modern state of Israel was created Arab neighbors were supposed to have recognize israel and they refused.
They should suffer the consequences.
You are trying to fool yourself about a revival.
Where is the revival taking place with all those ignorant Muslims who lack all credibility?
Europe, North America, Australia,Latin America and the Caribbean are predominantly Christian.
China, Korea, and Japan are Buddhist. India is Hindu. Christianity is wonderfully moving across black Africa.
You call your African forefathers pagans. Anyone who hates their own people at the expense of praising another will never rise and command respect.
I wonder what you refer to, when Muslims walk around that black thing in Mecca and throw stones.
I call it a pagan ritual to the core.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel would never approve of that garbage.
Instead of parroting Arab propaganda do something for your own people.
Not in a million years will Islam enslave and empower the people who worship the one of Ancient days- the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.
Swarthmoor,
May God open your eyes and enlighten you and may you learn to have pride in yourself and yours.This is really my last post.
Gianella,
You sure are one confused little lady. The PROPHETS–who are the most holy and honorable people who ever lived–they are mentioned in THE BIBLE–had slaves. Slavery is SANCTIONED by the Bible and by the PROPHETS. Again, you don’t seem to be able to distinguish Biblical values from contemporary secular corporate consumer culture values.
Hey, Gianella, i thought you said you weren’t racist?!? The fact of the matter is that MANY PEOPLE are converting to Islam IN SPITE of the behavior of many bad Muslims. The reason why many people convert is because some people WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD. They can look past the bad behavior of many bad Muslims–because they are sincere and want to know their Lord. That is what it all boils down to: WHO IS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. It’s not blind material forces, and it’s not a person who came out of a woman’s womb 2000 years. Your God–my God–the God of the Universe is One, Perfect, Beyond Need or Comparison.
OF CONVERTS
Apparently, Gianella, you don’t know about a place called Texas. It’s on the border with Mexico. In Texas tens of thousands of Latinos have converted to Islam. And nationwide, Latinos are converting nearly on par with African-Americans. The reason being for many of them: they realize that Christianity and its pagan doctrines make no sense.
OF ISRAEL
Homegirl, seriously now, do you take some kind of medication? Are you confusing your little green pills with your little red pills?!? First you say that the Muslims are all to blame for their problems, then i respond and show you what a liar you are (Iraq, tin pot secular tyrannies throughout the Muslim world, colonialism, etc.). So now you flip the script and try to JUSTIFY Western policies–since you can no longer deny them. The Jesus hating Jew state was part of a loooong plan to attack and undermine the Ottoman government. This is simply a fact of history. But, of course, in your little racist mind, the Jesus hating Jews killing Arab babies isn’t a problem for you.
OF PAGANS
Gianella, most of the African slaves that were brought here were PAGANS. You know: those nekkid, bone in the nose, plate in the lip, illiterate, lascivious, drunken, sometimes cannibalistic, devil worshipping idolators. That’s what they were on when they were brought here–and you can see them still on that culture today on street corners or in the Negro church. Praise Allah, some African-Americans are converting to Islam and coming out of the darkness of decadent nihilism and creation worship.
OF ABRAHAM
Some people, Gianella, consider human sacrifice a pagan ritual. According to the Bible Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his ONLY SON (of course, that was Ishmael). Muslims don’t call their Prophets pagans (of course the Jews are notorious for doing so, and the Christians simply follow blindly the Jews in that blasphemy). The reality is that Abraham had a slave, which would nullify him as a holy person in your confused little head. Secondly, “pagan rituals” are those which do not conform with what God ordered. Performing tawaaf of the Ka`bah is an order from God, so Muslims perform it.
Lastly, Gianella, Muslims ARE WORSHIPPING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB. Clearly, none of these Prophets were “Jews” or “Christians.” We worship the ONE PERFECT CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. We don’t pray to humans or statues, like the Christians do. And we don’t pray to an imaginary manlike entity up in the Heavens, like the Jews (and Christians) do.
Just some advice, Gianella, you really need to work on that racism, which consumes your heart. It’s made your confused mind bloated with unjustified pride. The way to fix yourself is to look deep into your heart and recognize that you’re worng and that you’ve been lied to. That requires a certain degree of humility. Work on that, and God-willing, some of those seals will loosen from your hard (and confused) heart. May Allah you and me to the good endings.
With Allah is the success.
As salamu Brother Swarthmoor,
I have been following this conversation between you and Gianella for sometime. Regarding this quote from you Swarthmoor:
Gianella, most of the African slaves that were brought here were PAGANS.
Is this really an accurate statement? Islam reached West Africa more than 1000 years ago
Swarthmoor is obviously not versed in history. and linguistics.
Africans of all walks came on the slave ships. Literates, illiterares,skilled , unskilled,cultured,uncultured,rich, poor,bond,free, kings,queens,servants,etc…
Muslims,Christians and also those who practice African traditional religions were also on the slave ships.
It is so easy to mutter garbage about bone in the nose, etc.
There was a slave rebellion in Brazil during the colonial period masterminded by Blacks who were all Muslims.
Africa was never the dark continent as Arabs and Europreans have depicted it.
This ignorance of Africa and its people is what makes those who have converted to Islam dismiss the atrocities that Arabs are doing against black African Muslim and non-Muslims.
I feel sorry for the likes of Swarthmoor. They grab unto this Moor nonsense.
The Moors were people from Mauritania who were anti-Black.
This is why they exist no more.
Many of the blacks here in the States recents convert to Islam who blindly ignore their own group will go down the same way.
One last thing, I am Afro Cuban and I doubt Latinos will let go of their Catholic faith.
Mexicans living in Texas as a whole are not going to abandon “la Virgen de Guadalupe”.
Catholic traditions are deeply embedded in Latin culture.
One last thing, I just hope many of you hold on to who you are.
In the long run God sees us nations of people.
Race has never existed in God’s eyes.
We have always been national groups.
Trying to hide or be ashamed of of our distinctness is not going to cut any slack in God’s eyes.
God knows who we are, who we are descended from.
If we are stll alive it is because God wants it that way.
So please stop trying to be Arabs, and for the sake of human pride there is no need for a black Muslim to change his name to an Arabic one.
Jeremiah, as-salaamu `alaykum,
Most of the slaves, at least to the reasearch i am familiar with came from the regions south of Muslim dominated regions. You can double check, but i believe that the majority of folks shipped over (or at least the largest region of exportation) was Angola (which until today still has a considerable percentage of pagans).
If Muslims had been the majority of folks shipped over, then you would see (historically) quite a lot of Islamic traces among the various folks in the black Diaspora. You don’t. And even in the slave narratives it is not that common to read stories of people who actually came from Muslim backgrounds. They exist no doubt, but they certainly don’t constitute the majority of people.
Gianella is right about the Muslim “slave” (i.e., prisoners of war) rebellions and communities that were established in Brazil. That was part of the problem: it was harder to enslave Muslims than the African heathens. The Europeans states actually passed laws telling the slavers NOT to take Africans from the Muslim regions–partly because the Muslim “slaves” (prisoners of war) could not be subdued by the cross, like the Africa idolators.
I have some info on the subect, but that’s it in a nutshell.
Now you are talking false propaganda about Mulsim were not easily subdued by the cross.
The very Arabs helped Europeans enslave Africans whether they were Muslims or not.
Only Ethiopian Christians were not enslaved and only because threy were able to protect themselves and Ethiopia has pefect mountainous borders.
There were numerous slave rebellions daily across the new World by all types of Africans because it is simply difficult to enslave human beings.Period. Study slavery in the Caribbean and Latin America.
God has wired within us all a direct free line unto him. where we recognize and want to be free always.
The Europeans(John Locke) were right after all about us all being born with natural rights.
Slaves came from the entire west Coast of Africa straight to parts of the South. Many came from Senegambia region that today is Senegal and Gambia. Many of these people were and like the people living there today are Muslims.
There are words today that are part of the vocabulary of many people in Spanish Americas and Brazil that can be traced to Ghana,Senegal the Congo and the Gambia.
To study who came from where, one has to start looking at language patterns, etc.
It is easy to assimilate into another culture. This is what has happened throughout centuries.
Yesterday Moors in Spain, today Christians of that region.
The Moors did nort disappear, they simply intermarried with Christians, some were forced to convert to Christianity for their own survival. Their descendendants toay are there but fully assimilated as Spaniards.
People do not disappear , what disappears is their memory.
I can see that your brandishing as “pagans and heathens” to people of African descent, it is sign that your memory has been erased .
I consider myself Christian but I will never desecrate the memory of those came before and who I am descended from. Absolutely not.
Gianella,
You are talking about memory… but if i remember correctly, you said, you were going to stop responding… but that’s another story.
Moving right along…
BONES IN THE NOSES
The demonic jinn worshipping, falling over statues, blood drinking pagans still thrive in parts of Africa–replete in their nakedness and bones thru the noses:
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/312-2365~Mursi-Lady-with-Lip-Plate-South-Omo-Valley-Ethiopia-Africa-Posters.jpg
Actually, that plate lipped pagan chica is from Ethiopia. Praise Allah, many of the people of Ethiopia have converted to Islam, but there are still a number of those folks out in the bush.
IGNORANCE OF AFRICA
G., let me help you out here. I am not an African-American who embraced Islam because i was looking for an Arab identity. I was actually DEEEEEEP into Afrocentricity, and even took a degree in African/African-American (well, “Negro”) Studies in college. I read quite a few academic and Afrocentric propaganda works against Islam. I am familiar with the arguments the negroes attempt to make against Islam.
My mentor in college was a leading scholar in the field of (West) African art, and i wanted to go to Temple University in Philadelphia to do my thesis on the connections between West Africa and the Ancient Nile Valley civilizations. I’ve been exposed to the whole PC rap about pagan Africa–bin dar an bin dun did dat.
I was also all into black nationalism (ya know, reading Stokely, John Jackson, the BPP, etc.)–and wanting to get the revolution started.
Ma-sha Allah, I also know about the hoo-doo, vodun, Santeria, sell your soul to Eshu at the crossroads, demonic mess the Cubans are on. I remember on incident in college that forced me to re-evaluated the whole “black thing.” We watched a video (on African art), in which one of the pagan priestess went to the little hut where they kept their statues. She took one out. Grabbed a chicken, sliced its throat, and let it (the blood) cover the idol–just like what those pagans do throughout the Caribbean. As much as i really wanted to believe in “my African people” i couldn’t accept that i should bow down to blood crusted statues. I knew that something was sick about all that. Paganism just isn’t pretty.
Those people worship demonic jinn. Just as the folks in the Negro Church talk about getting possessed and letting (demonic) spirits enter them, they are no different from their pagan relatives in the African bush. Here’s an example:
“The people moaned and fluttered, and then the gaunt-cheeked brown woman beside me suddenly leaped straight into the air and shrieked like a lost soul, while round about came wail and groan and outcry, and a scene of human passion such as I had never conceived before.”
“The stamping, shrieking, and shouting, the rushing to and fro and wild waving of arms, the weeping and laughing, the vision and the trance. All this is nothing new in the world, but old as religion, as Delphi and Endor.” [Or the pagans among the Fong, Yoruba, and Asante]
—from W.E.B. DuBois
As one of the Brothers says here of the Negro American pagans (NAPs): “No dignity.” The fact of the matter is that anyone who studies pagan African history with an open mind can understand why those people are in the condition they are in. Praise Allah, many of them–as pagans elsewhere–embraced Islam, but many have not and they remain the despised and humiliated people that they are.
NEVERTHELESS–ALWAYS THE MOOR
I took my handle for several reasons. First, Swarthmore College was a rival of my alma mater. Secondly, the term “Moor” has been used by Europeans to refer to ALL Muslims. The term “Moor” was used to refer to black (or brown) people, such as, Othello, The Moor. Also, Al-Murabatin, who ruled a large part of West Africa and Spain were refered to, in particular, as “Moors.” Swarth(dark)-More–is a pretty good sign that some elite WASP, as the founder of the college was presumably, carried some black blood in him. And indicates the Islamic/black influence on Europe. I’m not a black nationalist anymore, but i find that a kinda intres-tin’ historical tidbit.
With Allah is the success.
swarthmoor.wordpress.com
G.,
A few Moor points. How is it that a handful of “Arabs” came all the way down the coast of Africa and into the interior and were able to catch all those pagan Africans? Why didn’t those “highly developed” civilizations of pagan Africa stop those “Arabs?”
So what you are saying is that a few hundred Arabs were able to go all the way down to Angola, go into the interior, capture and escape back to the coast, and load millions of Africans on boats, but the Africans were too dumb to stop them?!? The African pagans didn’t LOVE each other. They SOLD each other–just as the Muslims sold the pagans. The fact of the matter, even in what some might call the most ideal conditions, the tribalism of African paganism isn’t conducive to unity–as we witnessed when 800,000-1,000,000 African pagans hacked each other up in a few weeks in Rwanda.
Part of the problem is that the Europeans often referred to African Muslims in general as “Arabs.” Secondly, many of the Arabs are “black”–as we witness the massive black-on-black/African-on-African crime taking place in Sudan. A clear example of the danger of asabiyyah (excessive tribal solidarity) that Islam condemns. Lastly, Africans don’t have the same notions of race/identity as the black folks in the Americas. The one who’s considered “black” in one place (or time) may not be considered “black” elsewhere.
Gianella, i didn’t say that there weren’t Muslims slaves brought to the Americas. Alex Haley claimed his family came from Senegambia, and that they were Muslims. The point is did the Muslims constitute the majority? The historical record to date says no. Perhaps, in certain parts of the Americas where there was a more substantial Muslim populations, the vestiges of Islamic culture remained among the people longer. But, i was, for the most part talking about slaves in the USA. However, what we see in the black cultures of the Americas–even in areas where European pagan influence was not as pronounce–is a predominance of pagan African culture, and not that of Muslim African culture. That was my point.
Last thing: there is NO DOUBT that there were (and remain to be) some pretty backwards, uncivilized, and outright savage places in Africa populated by some nasty heathens. You have people who still openly worship statues and demons–that’s just the way it is. And i, for one, am not going to defend such people whether they be black, white, Latino, Asian, Arab or otherwise. They are pagans and worshippers demonic false gods. May Allah give them what they deserve.
With Allah is the success.
Wa alaikum as salam wa rahmatullah Swarthmoor,
At the risk of seeming argumentative I have to disagree with you. It is not at all surprising to me that traces of Islam were not passed down from the slaves considering the slaves could not even pass down their language and tribal identities.
Whether the slaves originated in West Africa or farther South as you contend, I suggest we refrain from labeling people we are not in the least acquainted with as “blood drinking pagans”. There is no doubt that a number of them were Muslim. Whether it was a majority or not, Allah knows best.
This is why so many black muslims suffer because so many idiot black muslims have drank the koolaid.
Your problems will never be part of the larger Arab problem, because they do not care. They carefully keep a good distance away from you . They know you are a confused lot.
Swarthmoor, my memory is not one week old, it is much older so anyything that took place last week may not be even part of my rich memory yet…
Arabs were always in Africa and very much involved in the slave trade from way back.
Many black African Muslim city states also traded slaves.
It was not difficult to pass the interior of Africa.
Black Africans , Arabs and those Africans who had converted to Islam( some were wannabe Arabs like many of you) knew the entire continent like the back of their hands.
I read once how a Wolof (Muslim) traded a Mandingo(Muslim) during the slave trade.
The problem in Darfur really is black muslims against black muslims and with the ignorance of many black muslims who believe they have become somethng else after conversion, you get the nasty pcture.
The late Senegalese filmmaker, Osman Sembene, who was muslim often depicted in his excellent movies some of those scary problems that are there but not discussed among many African muslims.
Now many of you think like Arabs, so you have lost your identity and this is why you are talking about Irak, and Palestininians. But what about the Black Muslims in Darfur? Complete silence.
If Islam is so great, why it has not civilize the Arab people and other Muslims?
Why does Islam have no reference on how to interact with non-Muslims?
Why the hatred and disdain toward non-Muslims?
You are the one who claimed Allah is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, although no Christian and Jew in their right mind believe that.
God made it very clear to Ancient Israel that they were to respect strangers or outsiders because He, God, was the only God and therefore was their God also whether they liked, approved or not. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an Universal God, not a god of a region, made up by a people to suit their cultural needs.
You see this nonsense of calling people “blood thirsty pagan, or infidel” ;Only God can refer to people as “pagans or heathens” .
You see, we believers cannot.
If you trust your god as truly worthy, supreme and powerful, let God be the judge and man must shut up.
Correction: Ousmane Sembene
Jeremiah,
You can simply look at the culture of the slave descended blacks in the West–talking about in the Caribbean and South America where the vestiges of African culture are much greater than in the USA. What you find amongst those people is clearly a PAGAN, demon (jinn) worshipping culture. They clearly are not following traditional (European) Christianity. So Western influence–certainly in religion–was not all that significant. The African culture amongst those folks is pretty much intact, and it is clear that these folks are not carrying much even in the TRACES of Islamic culture.
To make the point, you can look at the following and see that their (pagan) African culture was (sadly) preserved amongst these people (keep in mind that this Haiti–a state that broke away from white rule relatively early on):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpeLdXeIbwA
Assuming the video isn’t a fake, it seems reasonable to conclude that the guy is possessed by a demonic jinn. So the vodoo priest calls upon more demonic to take that devil out. This is their life: these pagans wallow in a world of darkness calling upon one demon after another to assist them. Al-Hamdulillah, Islam has come to save humanity (those who submit) from the vile realm of devil worship.
With Allah is the success.
G.,
Let me help ya out. I am familiar with the anti-Islamic (usually in the form of anti-Arab) propaganda that comes from the negro nationalists. In that regard, it boils down to this:
What are these negro nationalists (or African pagans, for that matter) calling people to? Can they tell me who God is and what happens to the person after they die? They couldn’t/can’t. THAT, Gianella, is the reason why i abandoned them. The negro nationalists were very often Marxian atheists–who had no moral code. Some black nationalists were just plain Christian negroes who used “black power” as their gimmick to keep pimping folk. The African pagans… well, like i said, i never considered a blood encrusted statue to be something i should worship.
My conversion to Islam had NOTHING to do with wanting to be an Arab. When i initially thought myself to be a Muslim (i had misunderstood matters in the Creed), i was still into Afrocentricity/black nationalism. And when i genuinely converted to Islam, i can’t remember having known an Arab at the time whom i thought highly of. (No, actually, there was a Brother, ironically, to you, from the Sudan who basically affirmed that what i was learning was genuine traditional Islamic Doctrine and Law–but i met him AFTER i had made a commitment to studying the Religion.)
I was actually studying regularly for several months before i found out that the Shaykh who authored the book i was studying from was a black African. That, and the fact that thousands of “white Arabs” were sitting at his feet learning, would’ve been significant to me when i first started to study, because i was still hung up on the “black thing.” But what was MOST IMPORTANT was understanding the genuine Islamic creed.
I was into the racial thing–but it’s pretty obvious that being black or not wasn’t going to be to my benefit or detriment in the Afterlife. A person needs to leave this earth on the correct Creed. THERE’S NO DOUBT that the (genuine) Muslims are on it.
OF SLAVERY
The Muslims were off the coast England and Scandanavia and up in the Caucus mountains capturing pagans. And they caught African pagans, as well. Like i said, Muslims don’t have a problem with that. And it is easy to imagine that ignorant and corrupt Muslims even captured their own free Brothers and Sisters and sold them. They are guilty of an enormity that is condemned in Islam. As Muslims, we judge matters according to the Laws of Islam: one cannot enslave a free Muslim–much less sell him.
OF DARFUR
Assuming what i’ve read in the corporate controlled media has some semblence of truth, it’s like this:
The Furs rebelled against the Khartoum government. Rebelling against the ruler is an enormity–even in the ruler engages in sins. What did the rebels expect would be the response knowing that the government in Khartoum is tyrannical? It was a bad move on the part of the Darfur rebels. The fallout of their rebellion shows why revolution is forbidden in Islam. It simply causes more chaos.
Not surprisingly, the Khartoum govt. has had a way over the top response to the rebels. The Janjaweed saw that this was an opportunity to seize some of the lands they had been eyeing for a long time. Again, in the Islamic law, one cannot cease a Muslim’s property without just cause–and this isn’t one of them. Also, what is reported is Muslim women being raped (again, doesn’t work in Islamic Law)–folks being intentionally starved to death (again, doesn’t work). Darfur is a disaster because of the stupid tribalistic motivations of the people involved. As one of the Brothers here said: “These people [of Khartoum] are so stupid, that they have to have a kaafir [Colin Powell] show them how to treat Muslims.” This is the result of folks not learning and practicing their Religion–simple as that.
OF IRAQ AND PALESTINE
I believe i brought them up because you said that the Muslims are strictly to blame for their problems. Obviously, that is not the case with these two countries. In regards to taking up Arab causes, personally, i’ve never been a fan of Arab politics. Even from my pre-Muslim days, i couldn’t understand how all those Muslims (or in this case, Arab Muslims) could not defeat the Jews. Then after one starts to learn the Religion–it ceases to be a mystery. The vast majority of the Arabs there are HORRENDOUSLY ignorant of the Religion–and their leaders are… well, they are what they are. Allah is punishing and humiliating the Arabs and our Ummah as a whole for our collective disobedience, love of this world, and fear of death–that’s clear, and it is mentioned in the Qur’an and the prophecy of the Messenger Muhammad.
With Allah is the success.
OF CIVILIZATION
Gianella, there was a time when the Muslim civilization was the dominant civilization on earth. Many of those Muslims were Arabs. As a matter of fact, IT WAS ISLAM that united and strengthened the Arabs, and gave them the power to conquer and civilize the lands from the western fronteirs of China to Portugal in less than 100 years. Also, you seem to be utterly familiar with the VAST INTELLECTUAL and CULTURAL heritage of the Arabs and other Muslims upon world civilization.
ON INTERACTIONS
Islam has extensive rules on how a Muslim is to interact with non-Muslims. A lot of those Muslims don’t know those rules or abide them nowadays, but they exist. Afterall, virtually every act a Muslim does has a Religious judgment related to it.
Muslims are aware of the hatred that the non-believer has for them. Afterall, i just ain’t feelin’ no love from you, G. That’s how it is: Muslims don’t love the people of disbelief and the people of disbelief don’t love Muslims. We do, however, CARE for the people of disbelief and love what is best for them. We love for them to be saved from the misery of disbelief. We love for them to blessed with the bounty of Faith: to believe CORRECTLY in the Creator and all of God’s Prophets. May Allah grant you that.
OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
First you need to understand, G., that the Jews and Christians have two different beliefs about what they worship–although both people do refer to God as “Allah” (albeit, with erroneous notions about the Creator). Now, according to Christian mythology, the Jews commited (alleged) deicide against Jesus, the son of Mary. That alone should tell a Christian that the Jews are not in their camp.
Although it is true that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshipped the Universal Lord of creation, you are not familiar with the Bible. The Old Testament is AN ETHNOCENTRIC BOOK–largely about what the Israelite people allegedly did. Much of the Bible deals with GOING TO WAR WITH THEIR NON-JEW NEIGHBORS. And if you want to talk about the Jewish law, then you can’t leave out the Talmud–which is a BLATANTLY RACIST BOOK that considers the non-Jew subhuman.
Regarding judging others, the Bible commands not only should one judge, the Bible says that one SHOULD KILL:
Leviticus 6:27: “A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be PUT TO DEATH; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them.”
“Mediums” are those heathens that call upon demons to possess them. Regarding those sacrificing-chicken-for-jinn voodoo and Santeria cults,
Exodus 22:20 says:
“He that sacrificeth to gods, shall be put to death, save only to the Lord.”
According to the Bible, your heathen buddies over in Africa and down Cuba deserve the death penalty. The fraudulent nature of the Bible has already been established, so G., i don’t want to talk about it anymore–i’ve made my point. You OBVIOUSLY don’t know the history of the Bible or what the Bible teaches.
Gianella, like was said, this all boils down to having the correct belief in the Creator and striving to die upon that. I ASSURE YOU that you don’t want to die on the state you are currently in. That would be tragic. You need to fix yourself before it’s too late. I know that i have been less than pleasant with you–overlook that, and seek the truth in what has been said. Your Lord is One, Perfect, Beyond Need or Compare. In that belief–if you understand it correctly–you will, God-willing, find your salvation.
With Allah is the success.